CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded GPU kernels.

[chrysophylax]

yay !!!!  

yeah well I don't like multipool  

time to start using your own brain

Multipools are just like mutual funds, a natural part of an open market. If crypto
really takes off be prepared for options, futures and other derivatives.

and poloniex continues the ball rolling with that ... margin trading ...

as for multipools - we have been mining on coinking.io ( which has its own issues ) for various coins of our choosing ( as long as they cater for it ) and have been collating coins for quite a long time now ...

no need to convert all the coins to btc - just mine from the list they have ( and email for those coins they dont have ) and you are set ...

btw sp - nvidia-smi is always giving 'unknown errors' with getting the clocks set ...

i have researched the issue and only found it to be even more frustrating ... i used to build grids / hpc clusters - and they seem to be the main focus of nvidia's target for that fine grained control ( for tesla gpus and the like ) - so will look into that much more and see where that leads me ...

#crysx

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[djm34]

yay !!!!  

yeah well I don't like multipool  

time to start using your own brain

Multipools are just like mutual funds, a natural part of an open market. If crypto
really takes off be prepared for options, futures and other derivatives.

I have nothing against pool which would be your mutual fund, multipool aren't that at all...
it has nothing to do will mutual fund, mutual fund don't dump your money to the lowest bid while multipool does that.
so technically they don't support coins, they kills them and for much less profit that you would make yourself alone in a standard pool.

So they kill the business for everyone, their users included... but that's you what you ask actually since it means:
 * I don't care about the coin, just want btc
 * I don't care what they mine
 * I don't care at which rate they exchange, I just want some...  
so no altcoin, no trading, you should just sell directly your electricity, it would probably be cheaper for you

[sp_]

btw sp - nvidia-smi is always giving 'unknown errors' with getting the clocks set ...

That's why I can't support linux until the API is fixed. I use the same calls that the nvidia-smi uses.

Anyway. Overclocking can reduce the lifetime of your cards, so use it with caution.

[sp_]

I have nothing against pool which would be your mutual fund, multipool aren't that at all...
it has nothing to do will mutual fund, mutual fund don't dump your money to the lowest bid while multipool does that.
so technically they don't support coins, they kills them and for much less profit that you would make yourself alone in a standard pool.

So they kill the business for everyone, their users included... but that's you what you ask actually since it means:
 * I don't care about the coin, just want btc
 * I don't care what they mine
 * I don't care at which rate they exchange, I just want some...  
so no altcoin, no trading, you should just sell directly your electricity, it would probably be cheaper for you

But the multipools do create volume. The volume makes the coins stay on the exchanges.  A coin wich is  delisted from the echange is is not worth much.

[chrysophylax]

btw sp - nvidia-smi is always giving 'unknown errors' with getting the clocks set ...

That's why I can't support linux until the API is fixed. I use the same calls that the nvidia-smi uses.

Anyway. Overclocking can reduce the lifetime of your cards, so use it with caution.

i appreciate your caution - but have been overclocking the amd cards since we started mining ... ...

but i do understand where you are coming from ...

if this is the state of the nvidia commands - then i see why its in such a sorry state ...

it seems that nvidia commandline are built specifically with the high end cards in mind ( like the tesla ) and only 'sort of' support the lower end cards ...

i guess its a matter of time and hassling nvidia to get it all universal across the board ...

here we go with some more emails ...

#crysx

[Grout]

The windows builds produce more hash, and use less power. You can get 100% more  profit if you switch to windows.

Just had a look, and a windows 8.1 license is 119€ for me. The pro version is needed for remote desktop (if you don't want to move display, keyboard and mouse around) and costs 279€.
Even if the hashrate is better, it's going to take quite some time to ROI that license cost. With that kind of money, I'd rather buy two more cards and buy you a few beers :-/
Maybe it's OK for people who have 6*970 rigs. But for me and my measly 3*750ti rig, it's a no-go.

Edit: Windows 7 pro 64 bits is 'only' 180€ in OEM version and should upgrade for free to windows 10 when it is released...

this is one of the reasons why i left windows altogether many many years ago ( i was a windows 'professional' onsite and network infrastructure consultant ) ... apart from the instability and 'graphics only' control - which is still current to this day ...

linux just blows it away when it comes to all of those points ...

but i can assure you - even with a farm - no matter what rigs you have - the cost is bloody ridiculous ...

a 'free' upgrade to windows 10 - with HUGE restrictions ... ie - you MUST have a running and licensed copy of windows 7 or 8 and above to be eligible for this 'free' upgrade ...

again ... we are sticking to linux and im personally not running anything else except for the ONE windows machine - just because i 'need' to ...

all the rest are linux - including my desktop ...

anyway - im just hoping there will be more advances in the opensource arena and linux in the very near future - to allow all these awesome apps and utilities to become much more proficient in functionality and performance ... and hopefully this will make closed source a dying area ...

#crysx

win 8.1 pro key for 2.4 $

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1043345.0

Mmm, even with an MSDN account, this is suspiciously cheap. I remember reading somewhere that major companies like Dell or IBM payed their OEM licenses around 5$ to Microsoft. That makes me seriously doubt that these keys are legit. I mean, they probably are valid keys, but I doubt they were purchased legally... My guess is the guy has access to his company's MSDN account and they have a lot of machines that are not connected to the internet (think defense, banking, intelligence...) so the keys can safely be reused, and sold.
Whatever the case is, owning a key is not equal to owning a license. A license is a piece of paper, like a certificate of authenticity, the sticker that comes with a new PC, or an invoice. Having a valid key does not make a Windows copy legal.

Anyway, these are just excuses on my part. I'm not that hardcore about paying licenses and I watch pirated movies and series as much as anyone. It's just that I've always used Linux and have always been fortunate enough to work at companies that use Linux as well. Paying for my Windows licenses (like the one on my gaming rig) is a way to validate my opensource preference, by hitting me where it hurts. Imagine how many beers I could buy SP_ for that amount ;-)

Our best hope is that SteamOS picks up steam (worst pun even) and grows linux share in the gaming market. That could push Nvidia and AMD to finally give open source the support it deserves.

[chrysophylax]

The windows builds produce more hash, and use less power. You can get 100% more  profit if you switch to windows.

Just had a look, and a windows 8.1 license is 119€ for me. The pro version is needed for remote desktop (if you don't want to move display, keyboard and mouse around) and costs 279€.
Even if the hashrate is better, it's going to take quite some time to ROI that license cost. With that kind of money, I'd rather buy two more cards and buy you a few beers :-/
Maybe it's OK for people who have 6*970 rigs. But for me and my measly 3*750ti rig, it's a no-go.

Edit: Windows 7 pro 64 bits is 'only' 180€ in OEM version and should upgrade for free to windows 10 when it is released...

this is one of the reasons why i left windows altogether many many years ago ( i was a windows 'professional' onsite and network infrastructure consultant ) ... apart from the instability and 'graphics only' control - which is still current to this day ...

linux just blows it away when it comes to all of those points ...

but i can assure you - even with a farm - no matter what rigs you have - the cost is bloody ridiculous ...

a 'free' upgrade to windows 10 - with HUGE restrictions ... ie - you MUST have a running and licensed copy of windows 7 or 8 and above to be eligible for this 'free' upgrade ...

again ... we are sticking to linux and im personally not running anything else except for the ONE windows machine - just because i 'need' to ...

all the rest are linux - including my desktop ...

anyway - im just hoping there will be more advances in the opensource arena and linux in the very near future - to allow all these awesome apps and utilities to become much more proficient in functionality and performance ... and hopefully this will make closed source a dying area ...

#crysx

win 8.1 pro key for 2.4 $

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1043345.0

Mmm, even with an MSDN account, this is suspiciously cheap. I remember reading somewhere that major companies like Dell or IBM payed their OEM licenses around 5$ to Microsoft. That makes me seriously doubt that these keys are legit. I mean, they probably are valid keys, but I doubt they were purchased legally... My guess is the guy has access to his company's MSDN account and they have a lot of machines that are not connected to the internet (think defense, banking, intelligence...) so the keys can safely be reused, and sold.
Whatever the case is, owning a key is not equal to owning a license. A license is a piece of paper, like a certificate of authenticity, the sticker that comes with a new PC, or an invoice. Having a valid key does not make a Windows copy legal.

Anyway, these are just excuses on my part. I'm not that hardcore about paying licenses and I watch pirated movies and series as much as anyone. It's just that I've always used Linux and have always been fortunate enough to work at companies that use Linux as well. Paying for my Windows licenses (like the one on my gaming rig) is a way to validate my opensource preference, by hitting me where it hurts. Imagine how many beers I could buy SP_ for that amount ;-)

Our best hope is that SteamOS picks up steam (worst pun even) and grows linux share in the gaming market. That could push Nvidia and AMD to finally give open source the support it deserves.

absolutely ...

#crysx

[djm34]

I have nothing against pool which would be your mutual fund, multipool aren't that at all...
it has nothing to do will mutual fund, mutual fund don't dump your money to the lowest bid while multipool does that.
so technically they don't support coins, they kills them and for much less profit that you would make yourself alone in a standard pool.

So they kill the business for everyone, their users included... but that's you what you ask actually since it means:
 * I don't care about the coin, just want btc
 * I don't care what they mine
 * I don't care at which rate they exchange, I just want some... 
so no altcoin, no trading, you should just sell directly your electricity, it would probably be cheaper for you

But the multipools do create volume. The volume makes the coins stay on the exchanges.  A coin wich is  delisted from the echange is is not worth much.

hmm... a coin stays on an exchange because there is some buy support, not because multipool are ready to dump them
(or you are really have to go low in some case to sell them when it is still possible... which means the death of the coin, so at that level they really don't help the coins... in the best case you can thank the few morons (enlightened I mean, obviously  ) who buy those almost dead coins

[myagui]

There seems to be a lot of anger towards multipools and profit-switching pools. Most people seem to ignore that PoW (so, mining), accounts for just a tiny/miserable fraction of the daily trade volume on coins with any meaningful reach of success.

To say that dumping mining rewards kills a coin, is to say that such coin bears no significant value beyond that of the mining process. So is the coin useless, or has no merits at all to drive demand? If so, by all means, dump it to death please.

Also commonly ignored, is the fact that PoW mining is a service to that coin's network. It is this service that ensures the security of the network (without which, double spending, etc etc...). Like any other service, it should be adequately rewarded. If a coin economy cannot afford the balancing act (and cost) of maintaining a secure network (in other words - absorb it's mining costs) again, by all means, dump it to death please.

I'm not saying all coins should simply be dumped upon and that all are shitcoins (though most of them should & most of them are  ), but just that mining cannot be the focus or measure of any one coin's success. The focus should be on utility, demand, adoption, innovation, well... The forever pursued "real world value"...

Do you believe in a coin, do you think it has merits and want to hold on to it, for whatever the future might bring or for the speculative exercise? Mine some, buy some, and hold them. It's all very much the same.

If you do not believe in any particular coin, and mining is just a (fiat/btc?) revenue opportunity, then go right ahead and point your hashes at whatever rental service, profit switching pool, or gamble on the coin-du-jour launch...

For those with the necessary time & energy, research some more. There's usually better profits to be had.
Oh well, I figure I'm not on the popular side of this discussion 
Happy mining!

[chrysophylax]

There seems to be a lot of anger towards multipools and profit-switching pools. Most people seem to ignore that PoW (so, mining), accounts for just a tiny/miserable fraction of the daily trade volume on coins with any meaningful reach of success.

To say that dumping mining rewards kills a coin, is to say that such coin bears no significant value beyond that of the mining process. So is the coin useless, or has no merits at all to drive demand? If so, by all means, dump it to death please.

Also commonly ignored, is the fact that PoW mining is a service to that coin's network. It is this service that ensures the security of the network (without which, double spending, etc etc...). Like any other service, it should be adequately rewarded. If a coin economy cannot afford the balancing act (and cost) of maintaining a secure network (in other words - absorb it's mining costs) again, by all means, dump it to death please.

I'm not saying all coins should simply be dumped upon and that all are shitcoins (though most of them should & most of them are  ), but just that mining cannot be the focus or measure of any one coin's success. The focus should be on utility, demand, adoption, innovation, well... The forever pursued "real world value"...

Do you believe in a coin, do you think it has merits and want to hold on to it, for whatever the future might bring or for the speculative exercise? Mine some, buy some, and hold them. It's all very much the same.

If you do not believe in any particular coin, and mining is just a (fiat/btc?) revenue opportunity, then go right ahead and point your hashes at whatever rental service, profit switching pool, or gamble on the coin-du-jour launch...

For those with the necessary time & energy, research some more. There's usually better profits to be had.
Oh well, I figure I'm not on the popular side of this discussion 
Happy mining!

well said ...

we are miners ... i personally have started in crypto BY mining ...

our farm have grown to the level of mining that we are ok with - but will be happy when it gets much much more large ...

we mine on various pools - and part of those pools are multipools ...

in most cases - as with most people - we mine in bursts on multipools like westhash for btc ... that part pays bills ...

mostly - we mine at places like coinking ... this due to the fact that we DO NOT have to exchange the coins to btc ( like yaamp ( rip ) and westhash and so forth ) ... we instead setup a number of coins we like to mine - and mine them ... not to dump - but to invest and hold and trade ...

the industry is still in its infancy - and we are really yet to see the direction it will take ...

but one thing that is for certain -  when the coins are down - exchanges are the ones that make the huge difference ...

mining pools ( multi or not ) becoming almost a second thought ...

hence why we mine - trade - buy - sell - and exchange coin for coin ...

#crysx

[djm34]

Oh well, I figure I'm not on the popular side of this discussion 
Happy mining!

don't know, I can't tell for sure on which side of the discussion you are 

but regarding multipool:
*they don't secure network as they just switch when it is profitable and leave when they found something else more profitable (and I don't say when the coin has stopped to be profitable...), so basically it is even more dangerous for the coin, as the multipool is totally unreliable to secure a network.

* also we all know a few coins which are stuck at high diff because a multipool raped the coin and left (obviously they are new retargeting algo to avoid those case, but even then it isn't easy as you still have to mine that block to get it back to "standard" diff...)

* lack of trading: dumping isn't trading...

[carrotX]

There seems to be a lot of anger towards multipools and profit-switching pools. Most people seem to ignore that PoW (so, mining), accounts for just a tiny/miserable fraction of the daily trade volume on coins with any meaningful reach of success.

To say that dumping mining rewards kills a coin, is to say that such coin bears no significant value beyond that of the mining process. So is the coin useless, or has no merits at all to drive demand? If so, by all means, dump it to death please.

Also commonly ignored, is the fact that PoW mining is a service to that coin's network. It is this service that ensures the security of the network (without which, double spending, etc etc...). Like any other service, it should be adequately rewarded. If a coin economy cannot afford the balancing act (and cost) of maintaining a secure network (in other words - absorb it's mining costs) again, by all means, dump it to death please.

I'm not saying all coins should simply be dumped upon and that all are shitcoins (though most of them should & most of them are  ), but just that mining cannot be the focus or measure of any one coin's success. The focus should be on utility, demand, adoption, innovation, well... The forever pursued "real world value"...

Do you believe in a coin, do you think it has merits and want to hold on to it, for whatever the future might bring or for the speculative exercise? Mine some, buy some, and hold them. It's all very much the same.

If you do not believe in any particular coin, and mining is just a (fiat/btc?) revenue opportunity, then go right ahead and point your hashes at whatever rental service, profit switching pool, or gamble on the coin-du-jour launch...

For those with the necessary time & energy, research some more. There's usually better profits to be had.
Oh well, I figure I'm not on the popular side of this discussion 
Happy mining!

Best post ever on this topic, pressing the like button :-)

[sp_]

The people who work for the pools create fake acounts on the bitcointalk forum and other forums. They work in teams of 2-3 people, and sometimes they can control all the users.

[bathrobehero]

To say that dumping mining rewards kills a coin, is to say that such coin bears no significant value beyond that of the mining process. So is the coin useless, or has no merits at all to drive demand? If so, by all means, dump it to death please.

Also commonly ignored, is the fact that PoW mining is a service to that coin's network. It is this service that ensures the security of the network (without which, double spending, etc etc...). Like any other service, it should be adequately rewarded. If a coin economy cannot afford the balancing act (and cost) of maintaining a secure network (in other words - absorb it's mining costs) again, by all means, dump it to death please.

I'm not saying all coins should simply be dumped upon and that all are shitcoins (though most of them should & most of them are  ), but just that mining cannot be the focus or measure of any one coin's success. The focus should be on utility, demand, adoption, innovation, well... The forever pursued "real world value"...

Do you believe in a coin, do you think it has merits and want to hold on to it, for whatever the future might bring or for the speculative exercise? Mine some, buy some, and hold them. It's all very much the same.

If you do not believe in any particular coin, and mining is just a (fiat/btc?) revenue opportunity, then go right ahead and point your hashes at whatever rental service, profit switching pool, or gamble on the coin-du-jour launch...

For those with the necessary time & energy, research some more. There's usually better profits to be had.
Oh well, I figure I'm not on the popular side of this discussion 
Happy mining!

There is a difference between dumping a coin and dumping a coin you didn't even know you were mining or even existed.

Regarding security, one could argue that considering the amount of hash getting thrown at these centralized multipools they are the ones posing a risk of pointing hashrate at any given coin to attack and exploit them and users wouldn't even know about it. And as mentioned above multipools used to kick the difficulty of coins into space when we had worse retarget methods.

The problem is that anyone can buy hardware, flick a switch and start a bat and earn BTC especially with cheaper electricity (where you can afford to be lazy) while besides them and the multipool owners literally everyone else gets screwed. But of course there always will be demand for that so multipools are here to stay at the cost of putting a cap on coin progression. Granted, most coins are crap but let's say a promising coin develops a new feature? Screw it, let's mine it all until its profitability decreases to the usual unprofitable levels, doesn't matter if it takes hours or weeks it will get grinded until either the price drops low enough or the difficulty increases high enough for the multipool script to point elsewhere.

Why do you think ccminer has 35 different algos? How many of those algos do you think were implemented for coins just to avoid multipools and rental servies? I'd guess a whole lot of them but it's pointless to come up with new algos anymore since multipools can add them the same day. Holding PoW coins which doesn't have significant block reward decreases or short PoW periods have became almost suicidal for these reasons.

Of course people who sink ungodly amounts of time into researching into more profitable means for their GPUs will probably be able to find them but it's getting increasingly difficult to do so. /rant

[CapnBDL]

The people who work for the pools create fake acounts on the bitcointalk forum and other forums. They work in teams of 2-3 people, and sometimes they can control all the users.

Well said.....there are sheeple to be led.

[Grout]

The people who work for the pools create fake acounts on the bitcointalk forum and other forums. They work in teams of 2-3 people, and sometimes they can control all the users.

My feeling is it's also true for coins themselves. Which makes the research that much more difficult. And picking the wrong coin is IMHO much worse than not making the maximum profit.
I like crysx idea of paying the bills with nicehash and playing with the remaining hashrate. I'll try to insert that in my controlling software...

[djm34]

The people who work for the pools create fake acounts on the bitcointalk forum and other forums. They work in teams of 2-3 people, and sometimes they can control all the users.

My feeling is it's also true for coins themselves. Which makes the research that much more difficult. And picking the wrong coin is IMHO much worse than not making the maximum profit.

well if everyone think like you, you won't make any profit at all...  because seen like that, I am not sure there is any reason to buy coins...

[myagui]

I understand your points bathrobehero, but I still mostly disagree. I'm quoting just the portions that concern my reply, there is no intention of taking your statements out of context. 

There is a difference between dumping a coin and dumping a coin you didn't even know you were mining or even existed.

Are you referring to some sort of difference of moral values?
I don't see any difference on a technical level:
 a) assign hash power
 b) earn share reward
 c) dump reward for an exit token/currency
 d) spend exit token/currency on beer/hookers/blow (in whichever order pleases you)

If you are dumping it, you are dumping it. The reasons why you are dumping it, do not magically cause the effects of the dumping to become any different. I would go as far as saying that the more dumping, the wider a coin is distributed, and someone else will be happy to be buying cheaper. This is not a simple matter of right or wrong, black or white...

Regarding security, one could argue that considering the amount of hash getting thrown at these centralized multipools they are the ones posing a risk of pointing hashrate at any given coin to attack and exploit them and users wouldn't even know about it. And as mentioned above multipools used to kick the difficulty of coins into space when we had worse retarget methods.

You raise here a very critical point, which is that security for various coins is actually worse on account of the multipools, given the crazy hashrate at one's disposal and how easy this makes it for someone to mount an attack. However, we take very differently views on "what is broken" in this respect.
I find this to be stimulus towards developing newer and better difficulty retargeting methods - as has precisely happened in the past already. It is forced evolution, if you will. Also, multipools are just the equivalent of a large enough farmer - and be certain that they exist - in that they are simply a very concentrated amount of hashrate, that can quickly hop from coin A to coin B when the mood (profit) arises.
The coins need to evolve to a point where such hopping on and off from multipools (or large enough farmers), are not a catastrophic event to their network. It is that simple.

Why do you think ccminer has 35 different algos? How many of those algos do you think were implemented for coins just to avoid multipools and rental servies? I'd guess a whole lot of them but it's pointless to come up with new algos anymore since multipools can add them the same day. Holding PoW coins which doesn't have significant block reward decreases or short PoW periods have became almost suicidal for these reasons.

Most new algorithms have brought absolutely nothing of relevance to the evolution of crypto currencies.
That all those coins using obscure algorithms are insecure (aka, easy to attack) is a strong representation of a fundamental flaw in their design. It is that they have this unique characteristic (a never-before-seen algorithm), for the simple sake of being "different".
What did x14 offer the world of crypto currencies that did not already exist in x11? What about x17? What about X, Y, Z algorithms? The few that have a compelling argument to exist, are most likely to survive. All others are more likely not to survive. I do not see a loss here, I see cleanup.
There is also the even worse case, of all the new algorithms that were "invented" for the sole purpose of allowing stress free private mining (at much greater performance). There are plenty of those around, and they are just another form of technological garbage.

We should set our minds away from this idea that somehow mining is this all important process that determines the value of a certain altcoin. It is not so.
Like I said earlier: [...] PoW mining, accounts for just a tiny/miserable fraction of the daily trade volume on coins with any meaningful reach of success. [...]

Note: I have the greatest respect for mining software coders, and even more so, when they so generously share with the community at large. I've even donated a beer or two! (rarely though, I'm a cheapstake)

Note2: I hereby agree to disagree! 

[joblo]

The people who work for the pools create fake acounts on the bitcointalk forum and other forums. They work in teams of 2-3 people, and sometimes they can control all the users.

My feeling is it's also true for coins themselves. Which makes the research that much more difficult. And picking the wrong coin is IMHO much worse than not making the maximum profit.

well if everyone think like you, you won't make any profit at all...  because seen like that, I am not sure there is any reason to buy coins...

It seems like what you are complaining about is simply Darwinism, survival of the fittest. I say let the fittest
survive and to hell with the rest, It will make the whole crypto industry stronger in the long run.

Anyone old enough to remember the dot com stock market boom in the late 1990s should understand.
Tech startups were going public in droves, most with zero revenue, let alone any earning. But people bought
in because it was the internet and the internet was going to change everything. None of those companies
are still around because none of those companies deserve to be around.
It wasn't until a few years later as the industry matured that companies with a real business plan
like Google and Amazon popped out of the mess and never looked back.

I'm looking for that Google or Amazon to pop out of the altcoin mess. In the meantime I'll profit where I can mining
and dumping altcoins that will likely disappear regardless.

[djm34]

We should set our minds away from this idea that somehow mining is this all important process that determines the value of a certain altcoin. It is not so.
Like I said earlier: [...] PoW mining, accounts for just a tiny/miserable fraction of the daily trade volume on coins with any meaningful reach of success. [...]

except that this is just not true for multipool (based on what they are mining).
This is true for bitcoins, dash and other older coins, which aren't necessarily the target of the multipool (and clearly don't care because they have strong networks), but the point of the multipool is to point to any coin getting profitable at a time x... (no matter how secured is his network)

So basically what they are dumping isn't a tiny/miserable fraction, but a sizable fraction of the coins which get dumped on investors (and prevent anyone from investing actually), not that I really care, but that's the main reason why altcoin aren't much profitable to mine because investors are kind of fed up of that behavior (not necessarily because of multipool, agree) and won't invest in POW coin as much as they did.