GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[Phildo]

They are both tied together. All the false promises made hashpoints/paycoin seem like a good idea, or at least better than the hashlets. Without the fasle promises, people don't switch and they train gets derailed earlier.

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[keshuker]

I will not be posting here or on hash talk as all the negativity has shown me that the crypto community will keep fighting each other and keep calling all new coins or innovation a scam.

I see this innovation word used a lot regarding Paycoin2, but so far I have not seen any feats or anything even mildly innovative, so what is it you are referring to?

And I wouldn't say that all new coins are called a scam if they aren't some shady ICO/IPO scheme that promises moon soon ™ and always fail, except putting btc in the "devs" pocket.

If a coin is transparent and fairly mined with no premine, I don't think anyone would call that a scam, because it is easy to check everything on the blockchain etc. With Pc2, you know absolutely nothing about how the premine was split up and how many millions paycoin2 GAW holds, dumping on exchanges or selling them on paybase to the credit card suckers.

[not.you]

A quick thought on why GAW might really be geniuses ...

It occurred to me that this whole Paycoin disaster could have been planned, not as a scam but as a way to get Josh out of the serious hot water that he was in as a result of the Hashlet fiasco.

Consider that, before Paycoin, hashlets were sold at a fairly impossibly high rate with Josh claiming to have hashrate that would have consumed a large percentage of the entire litecoin network (I cannot recall the calculation, but I think someone calculated 75%) and that early in the Hashlet days.  Then is came out that there was zero evidence of any actual scrypt mining going on (pool operators that GAW was claiming to use such as multipool stated that there was no such hashing on their pools), and Josh was forced to admit that he was not actually mining those pools, only payout out comparable payouts.  Then, it was eventually revealed that Zenpool did not even involve scrypt mining but instead was some hodgepodge of mysterious business profits from Josh's investing activity (coin ICOs, rentals were pointed out by Josh) allocated (presumably in Josh's discretion) to Zenpool.  Hashlet payouts tanked and never returned.   At some point (not sure when) it became "known" on HT that there never was any scrypt mining going on in the scrypt hashlets (some apologists argue that was okay, because they claim GAW was mining SHA256 all along and paying out based on Scrypt profitability; that may or may not be true but its still fraud if that is what GAW did).

The worst part, from a legal perspective, is that Josh/GAW had made several promises that they could not keep:

(a) Hashlets would always be profitable,
(b) Hashlet maintenance fees would reduce over time
(c) Prime hashlets would always be upgraded to the most current tech
(d) Hashlets would last forever (unlike other cloud mining services, GAW did not have a clause that allowed termination when the miners's costs exceeded payouts)
(e) Hashlets were described as scrypt miners, but there was insufficient scrypt mining power in the universe to satisfy the sales


Worse for GAW,  no new scrypt chips were being released that would be more efficient versus the "old tech" A2 chip; meaning that GAW's promises (which might have been achievable with Moore Law type reductions in cost and increase in efficiency) could not be met; even worse, Gridseed, Zeus and Bitmain all cancelled their next-gen scrypt projects and Zeus's chips for GAW's custom miners turned out to be crap

Clearly, there was no way GAW could continue to sell "scrypt" hashlets for $16 - $49 per mhs and without that new revenue there is no way GAW could continue (even if GAW was legit at that point - a debatable assumption - by Josh's own admission he needed a steady stream of customers to achieve his goal of large scale demand-side economics that would make the hashlet promises above semi-achievable).

GAW could not simply terminate the hashlets, but to continue to operate the hashlet empire without strong sources of new revenue would be a disaster for any business.  GAW was facing a choice between a long, drawn out death by attrition; or a fast death followed by lots of lawsuits (since the hashlet contracts were forever and "always profitable").  

A good "fixer" could have decided that the best solution would be Paycoin.  Offer Hashlet owners, who by then were suffering from 1 satoshi payouts and lots of doubts, a conversion into an alt-coin ICO.  If it succeeds, everyone is happy.  If it fails, at least GAW is out from under the certain death of continuing to "operate" hashlets at a loss forever and/or lawsuits as GAW can simply claim that they tried to make Paycoin work, but the market didn't accept it (no contracts to be profitable "forever", no promises of reduced maintenance fees to deal with, etc.)

Consider also that, had GAW simply launched Paycoin/Paybase without all of the false promises, backtracking, screwups, bad launch, premining, etc. they might have succeeded in extricating themselves from the hashlet trainwreck.  As usual though, a good plan fails at GAW from lack of execution.  

I mentioned something like a hundred pages back that the cantor fitzgerald paycoin scam was an exit strategy for the ponzi that came before it.  Whether that was the plan all along or not I don't know.  And even when I mentioned it I had heard someone else here on the forum (maybe you?  I can't recall.) suggest it way, way back when they very first began talking about the cantor fitzgerald paycoin scam.  

[WaffleMaster]

Jesus Bubbaj spare us the sob story. Microsoft just started accepting Bitcoin. You were literally in here less than a week ago saying that GAW was committing fraud. I actually thought for a second that these GAW fanboys that "saw the light" and started thinking for themselves, looking at the proof of fraud from GAW's "$20 floor, too big to fail at this point" etc. were coming around. Then they go and say some even dumber shit than they did before. Do you wonder why the CEO has to run his mouth through his lawyer's ass everytime he tries and talks now? Bitcoin's price DOES NOT effect it's usefulness. I'm a little bit tired of people treating this like a stock when clearly it's purpose is to be a currency and is one hell of a good one at that.

[skinnyboy]

I've been with GAW since the first hashlet, I've watched and seen all the controversy and I've at times allowed myself to believe they may actually produce something of value with paybase.

I don't think it's a scam.  I don't think there is malicious intent.  I do however believe that they have seriously over reached.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pull it off, but I'm having my doubts.  So far, since the spectacular fail that was the paybase launch there has been absolutely no extra features added which may indicate the service is actually coming.

While I concede there is always a possibility that they may eventually come good, I have to say, I'm sick of the waiting.  The 15th of january has been constantly touted as the date the new features will be launched.  If they are not, I'll be taking an extended (permanent) vacation from HT and focusing on other interests like increasing merchant adoption for btc in my local area :-)

[bananafana]

I wish you all luck with your endeavors, I am going back to the real game and that is BTC, I hope we all can one day look back at this and wish that we did not cause the damage to all Crypto that we have done over the last few months.

This vendetta against GAW and Josh has made the whole crypto community look like a bunch of fucking amateurs. Only 6 months ago Crypto was getting excellent main stream press and was looking good. However the in fighting, scams, and crap coins have now made it look like a joke.

Asic mining has killed scrypt, it may even kill BTC, coins like Dark Coin and Black Coin will not take off due to their names.

I will not be posting here or on hash talk as all the negativity has shown me that the crypto community will keep fighting each other and keep calling all new coins or innovation a scam.

The people on this forum and others have done more harm to Crypto than good, so be proud of yourselves as you may find that you are the ones stopping crypto getting wide spread acceptance, it is only a matter of time before the Banks and Governments of the world centralize the technology and all Crypto will go down in the history books as a fad.

So pat yourself on the shoulder and say well done as you are the guy's who supposedly want to see Crypto be a success have actually made it look like a fools paradise.

You all need to rethink what your agenda is here and start thinking about the bigger picture, so step away from your key boards and start promoting Crypto instead of tearing it down.     

How much did you lose from Cantor Fitzgerald?

:grinning:

Last edited by BitJane

I don't need anyone to edit my posts, i am reasonably educated not like some of the monkeys here

So you blame the monkeys, rather than blaming Josh and GAW?

Even back in the "hashcoin" days it was obvious that the thing was going to fall apart, although there was still room for it to be incompetence rather than an outright scam. The people who were saying this were right, whether they said it tactfully or rudely.

Then the release came, and it was a hollow shell of a web site and a clone coin without any significant features, No sign of the merchant partnerships, no sign of investment money, no names of investors or banks or analysts backing it, no serious attempt to maintain a floor, nothing. Some people wised up at that point, and if some of those joined the monkeys over here in pointing out how obvious these things were, they were right. The monkey also flung poo at Josh's true believers, and that was rude. But they were right about Paycoin.

Not a single thing that followed added any weight whatsoever to the "maybe this is real" column, but evidence against it kept piling up. Still no signs of the claimed merchant partnerships, investors, or banks. No evidence of significant software development. You can buy chili sauce with the coin, not much more. They add a new way to take your money, via CC, but violate the TOS. It's amateur hour at every turn. More people wised up along the way, more monkeys flung poo at HT, but they were right about Paycoin.

I doubt it was intentional scam in the full-blown Ponzi sense, if only because there seems to have been so little thought put into any of it. There was never a business plan that made sense but there was also never any thought put into making it work as a scam. You've got numbers pulled out of thin air without trying to be self-consistent, you've got bogus promises that are not just implausible they're unmaintainable and will unravel at launch. And then when they do unravel, he's got no plan, just denial and attempts to edit history. It's like he couldn't even think three weeks ahead.

I agree that it's damaging to crypto, although as of right now the number of people who have heard of paycoin outside the crypto community is very very small. So if it goes away quickly the damage is minimized. The monkeys are trying to make it go away quickly. Sorry about the poo though.

[WaffleMaster]

I've been with GAW since the first hashlet, I've watched and seen all the controversy and I've at times allowed myself to believe they may actually produce something of value with paybase.

I don't think it's a scam.  I don't think there is malicious intent.  I do however believe that they have seriously over reached.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pull it off, but I'm having my doubts.  So far, since the spectacular fail that was the paybase launch there has been absolutely no extra features added which may indicate the service is actually coming.

While I concede there is always a possibility that they may eventually come good, I have to say, I'm sick of the waiting.  The 15th of january has been constantly touted as the date the new features will be launched.  If they are not, I'll be taking an extended (permanent) vacation from HT and focusing on other interests like increasing merchant adoption for btc in my local area :-)

So this isn't fraud to you?

[coinits]

I've been with GAW since the first hashlet, I've watched and seen all the controversy and I've at times allowed myself to believe they may actually produce something of value with paybase.

I don't think it's a scam.  I don't think there is malicious intent.  I do however believe that they have seriously over reached.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pull it off, but I'm having my doubts.  So far, since the spectacular fail that was the paybase launch there has been absolutely no extra features added which may indicate the service is actually coming.

While I concede there is always a possibility that they may eventually come good, I have to say, I'm sick of the waiting.  The 15th of january has been constantly touted as the date the new features will be launched.  If they are not, I'll be taking an extended (permanent) vacation from HT and focusing on other interests like increasing merchant adoption for btc in my local area :-)

Talk here with your real account before you can be taken serious. Until then you are a Shill GAW Fanboy and no one cares about your spin on this fraud.

[demonz]

Jesus Bubbaj spare us the sob story. Microsoft just started accepting Bitcoin. You were literally in here less than a week ago saying that GAW was committing fraud. I actually thought for a second that these GAW fanboys that "saw the light" and started thinking for themselves, looking at the proof of fraud from GAW's "$20 floor, too big to fail at this point" etc. were coming around. Then they go and say some even dumber shit than they did before. Do you wonder why the CEO has to run his mouth through his lawyer's ass everytime he tries and talks now? Bitcoin's price DOES NOT effect it's usefulness. I'm a little bit tired of people treating this like a stock when clearly it's purpose is to be a currency and is one hell of a good one at that.

~~~~THIS JUST IN FROM RELIABLE SOURCE, CANT RELEASE CUZ NDA~~~~

GAW went full ponzi and purchased CryptoDouble- where you can instantly double your BTC in 100hours!! Backed by $100m wall to prevent collapse and ensure our investor profits!*


*User understands $100m represents monopoly money. Double your BTC in 100 hours only applies if you are a founder and purchased a hashlet prime. Otherwise, expect 90% loss while we use your funds to rent a yacht and/or private jet.

[skinnyboy]

I've been with GAW since the first hashlet, I've watched and seen all the controversy and I've at times allowed myself to believe they may actually produce something of value with paybase.

I don't think it's a scam.  I don't think there is malicious intent.  I do however believe that they have seriously over reached.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pull it off, but I'm having my doubts.  So far, since the spectacular fail that was the paybase launch there has been absolutely no extra features added which may indicate the service is actually coming.

While I concede there is always a possibility that they may eventually come good, I have to say, I'm sick of the waiting.  The 15th of january has been constantly touted as the date the new features will be launched.  If they are not, I'll be taking an extended (permanent) vacation from HT and focusing on other interests like increasing merchant adoption for btc in my local area :-)

So this isn't fraud to you?

So far I've seen no floor implemented.  There was the momentary buy wall which used btc, after he'd said he'd find a way to provide liquidity to people in the short term.  However, IF the fiat reserves are real it would make sense to keep them ready for the moment merchant adoption through paybase occurs.  That way they can handle the conversions and sending fiat to the merchants instantly in exchange for the coin, and use that to prop it up until there is enough fiat buy support.

Like I say though, despite that obvious logic, I'm not 100% convinced any more that they can do all they set out to acheive.   As it happens, I also think the idea of a $20 floor and pegging the price to the dollar was a stupid move in the first place, because it just makes xpy and extension of the dollar and not an individual currency in its own right.

As I said, not convinced it is malicious fraud, but there has been a lot of showboating a lot of noise and a lot of words to hype up something which was clearly not going to be ready i any reasonable time frame.

Maybe time will prove me wrong.  I hope not, for the sake of the crypto community as a whole.

[WaffleMaster]

[MinermanNC]

I wish you all luck with your endeavors, I am going back to the real game and that is BTC, I hope we all can one day look back at this and wish that we did not cause the damage to all Crypto that we have done over the last few months.

This vendetta against GAW and Josh has made the whole crypto community look like a bunch of fucking amateurs. Only 6 months ago Crypto was getting excellent main stream press and was looking good. However the in fighting, scams, and crap coins have now made it look like a joke.

Asic mining has killed scrypt, it may even kill BTC, coins like Dark Coin and Black Coin will not take off due to their names.

I will not be posting here or on hash talk as all the negativity has shown me that the crypto community will keep fighting each other and keep calling all new coins or innovation a scam.

The people on this forum and others have done more harm to Crypto than good, so be proud of yourselves as you may find that you are the ones stopping crypto getting wide spread acceptance, it is only a matter of time before the Banks and Governments of the world centralize the technology and all Crypto will go down in the history books as a fad.

So pat yourself on the shoulder and say well done as you are the guy's who supposedly want to see Crypto be a success have actually made it look like a fools paradise.

You all need to rethink what your agenda is here and start thinking about the bigger picture, so step away from your key boards and start promoting Crypto instead of tearing it down.    

Huh? what is he talking about lol, let me get this, so this one forum thread critiquing a new alt coin that claims to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, is now responsible for ruining crypto in general?    Like they say there is one in every crowd... I guess we found him  

[skinnyboy]

I've been with GAW since the first hashlet, I've watched and seen all the controversy and I've at times allowed myself to believe they may actually produce something of value with paybase.

I don't think it's a scam.  I don't think there is malicious intent.  I do however believe that they have seriously over reached.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pull it off, but I'm having my doubts.  So far, since the spectacular fail that was the paybase launch there has been absolutely no extra features added which may indicate the service is actually coming.

While I concede there is always a possibility that they may eventually come good, I have to say, I'm sick of the waiting.  The 15th of january has been constantly touted as the date the new features will be launched.  If they are not, I'll be taking an extended (permanent) vacation from HT and focusing on other interests like increasing merchant adoption for btc in my local area :-)

Talk here with your real account before you can be taken serious. Until then you are a Shill GAW Fanboy and no one cares about your spin on this fraud.

I'm criticizing them and you call me shill?  LMAO. kthnxbai :-)

PS my HT username is already taken over here, but if there are any smart arses out there you wont take long to figure out who I am.  Writing style, language use etc all give clues...

[coinits]

I've been with GAW since the first hashlet, I've watched and seen all the controversy and I've at times allowed myself to believe they may actually produce something of value with paybase.

I don't think it's a scam. I don't think there is malicious intent.  I do however believe that they have seriously over reached.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to pull it off, but I'm having my doubts.  So far, since the spectacular fail that was the paybase launch there has been absolutely no extra features added which may indicate the service is actually coming.

While I concede there is always a possibility that they may eventually come good, I have to say, I'm sick of the waiting.  The 15th of january has been constantly touted as the date the new features will be launched.  If they are not, I'll be taking an extended (permanent) vacation from HT and focusing on other interests like increasing merchant adoption for btc in my local area :-)

Talk here with your real account before you can be taken serious. Until then you are a Shill GAW Fanboy and no one cares about your spin on this fraud.

I'm criticizing them and you call me shill?  LMAO. kthnxbai :-)

PS my HT username is already taken over here, but if there are any smart arses out there you wont take long to figure out who I am.  Writing style, language use etc all give clues...

See hilighted text above - shill or fanboy or both.

[WaffleMaster]

I'm criticizing them and you call me shill?  LMAO. kthnxbai :-)

PS my HT username is already taken over here, but if there are any smart arses out there you wont take long to figure out who I am.  Writing style, language use etc all give clues...

Yeah, we're going to scan HT for writing styles to figure out your identity. Why did you come here again? I understand you're on the fence, but you're going about this the wrong way. Have another look at these. I agree with coinits on the highlighted text by the way

[csmflynt3]

There are a lot of scam accusations based on theories not on much fact. Yeah Josh has made promises on Hashtalk about the $20 floor that turned out to not happen at launch for what could be any number of reasons. It may be a scam , ponzi or whatever you want to call it, but just because it did not work out does not automatically make it fraud.

Businesses make poor decisions and overhype their products all of the time so until there is proof of malicious intent I would only say GAW is just a massive failure at this point just like many other companies. I hope when the truth does come out it this is all that it is because we have way too many other proven scams come and go already.

Yes I did invest some in paycoin ....( 

[strangerdanger101]

Jesus Bubbaj spare us the sob story. Microsoft just started accepting Bitcoin. You were literally in here less than a week ago saying that GAW was committing fraud. I actually thought for a second that these GAW fanboys that "saw the light" and started thinking for themselves, looking at the proof of fraud from GAW's "$20 floor, too big to fail at this point" etc. were coming around. Then they go and say some even dumber shit than they did before. Do you wonder why the CEO has to run his mouth through his lawyer's ass everytime he tries and talks now? Bitcoin's price DOES NOT effect it's usefulness. I'm a little bit tired of people treating this like a stock when clearly it's purpose is to be a currency and is one hell of a good one at that.

~~~~THIS JUST IN FROM RELIABLE SOURCE, CANT RELEASE CUZ NDA~~~~

GAW went full ponzi and purchased CryptoDouble- where you can instantly double your BTC in 100hours!! Backed by $100m wall to prevent collapse and ensure our investor profits!*


*User understands $100m represents monopoly money. Double your BTC in 100 hours only applies if you are a founder and purchased a hashlet prime. Otherwise, expect 90% loss while we use your funds to rent a yacht and/or private jet.

Is this for reals?

[WaffleMaster]

There are a lot of scam accusations based on theories not on much fact. Yeah Josh has made promises on Hashtalk about the $20 floor that turned out to not happen at launch for what could be any number of reasons. It may be a scam , ponzi or whatever you want to call it, but just because it did not work out does not automatically make it fraud.

Businesses make poor decisions and overhype their products all of the time so until there is proof of malicious intent I would only say GAW is just a massive failure at this point just like many other companies. I hope when the truth does come out it this is all that it is because we have way too many other proven scams come and go already.

Yes I did invest some in paycoin ....(  

Google definition of fraud. I'm glad the average person doesn't even bother checking definitions of things in a society where information is readily available to anybody who wants to look for it.

fraud
frôd/Submit
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

[skinnyboy]

I'm criticizing them and you call me shill?  LMAO. kthnxbai :-)

PS my HT username is already taken over here, but if there are any smart arses out there you wont take long to figure out who I am.  Writing style, language use etc all give clues...

Yeah, we're going to scan HT for writing styles to figure out your identity. Why did you come here again? I understand you're on the fence, but you're going about this the wrong way. Have another look at these. I agree with coinits on the highlighted text by the way

Why am I here?  Actually, I decided to sign up for the other threads because there is some interesting discussion going on and I'm going to refocus my energy on promoting merchant acceptance of btc for now, so it makes sense to get more involved with the btc forum.  

Anyhow, I'm not suggesting you scan threads, but if you are on there at all and you are half way clever it wouldn't take long to figure out a few likely candidates.  Either way that detracts from my point.

I responded to the posts you shared with a potentially viable suggestion regarding fiat liquidity.  I could be wrong, I'll concede.  I also thought the floor idea was a bad move from the start.  I also can't deny there has been a lot of things said which simply haven't panned out.  What about the "100,000 merchants" lined up to accept it from launch, presumably via gocoin?  I don't think that's even happened yet, so there's another for your list.

This forum has a bad rep for hostile attitudes, which does no favours for the community as a whole.  However, I'm not going to complain about that because I'm here for what I'm here for.  You can either take more digs at me or allow me to express my frustrations with GAW alongside some of the others.  Your shout.

[Paul Revere]

There are a lot of scam accusations based on theories not on much fact. Yeah Josh has made promises on Hashtalk about the $20 floor that turned out to not happen at launch for what could be any number of reasons. It may be a scam , ponzi or whatever you want to call it, but just because it did not work out does not automatically make it fraud.

Businesses make poor decisions and overhype their products all of the time so until there is proof of malicious intent I would only say GAW is just a massive failure at this point just like many other companies. I hope when the truth does come out it this is all that it is because we have way too many other proven scams come and go already.

Yes I did invest some in paycoin ....(