GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[suchmoon]

EDIT: BTW nice pic suchmoon, and GAWsome coffee mug. I'm assuming you are a car mechanic based on the background in the pic?

Sadly no. Did everyone really miss the honking red /s?

[TrevorS]

I am not deeply involved in the Paycoin mess, sorry for this really basic question:
Are there still "primenodes" (or whatever they were called) frequently receiving large numbers of new coins?
Can "the community" edit the code and eliminate the large rewards for elite accounts after Josh is busted?

There is a hardfork planned by "the community" for April 20 to reduce the staking rate to 100% from 350%.

Still it rewards a small number of wallets (50) with a disproportionately high rate (100% vs 5% regular rate).

But you have to include that there is a specific plan agreed to by the Prime holders to actually destroy the amounts of coins generated in excess of current numbers.  There's also a plan to revisit this for the next round.  So we really just have to see how this plays out!

[systematicdeception]

This email was sent referencing this post : https://web.archive.org/web/20150103030230/https://hashtalk.org/topic/25441/paybase-launch-rescheduled




Dan K to Eric C

Good morning Eric,

Please see Dave's notes re: AML/KYC below. These are the minimum standards for compliance.
Is PayBase incorporating these steps at a minimum?

Erics reply to Dan

This post from Josh should answer your question. (No)

https://hashtalk.org/topic/25441/paybase-launch-rescheduled

(original post is deleted of course, here's the archived copy https://web.archive.org/web/20150103030230/https://hashtalk.org/topic/25441/paybase-launch-rescheduled)



Dan to Eric

Right, when I saw that post I sent it to our two lawyers for their opinion and that was their response as well.

Jonah thinks we are installing AML compliance software prior to launch.  You have not been involved in that?

Eric to Dan

No I have not been included in any conversations about that, so I cannot say for certain it's being done. I'll reach out today and ask.

didnt the ex employees say this is how gaw does business? keep employees in the dark




Eric C to Dave M (gaw attorney?) CC Evan L Joe M Jonah D

Dave,

I wanted to reach out to your directly regarding KYC/AML. The people included on this email are hands-down the most important people to have in this discussion since *we are the ones building it*. We also have a vested interest in not building something that's going to get us in trouble with FinCEN. Could you please discuss this with us to ensure we are on the right path for implementing KYC/AML into PayBase. I feel that we've been getting some watered down information through the grapevine.

This is our draft policy for KYC/AML verification tiers.
https://docs.google.com/a/geniusesatwork.com/spreadsheets/d/10wt_KZ2LomATBlHkNzR_3WxYZxnCsfZZmxOh607Qsps/edit?usp=sharing

Eric C to Dave M, Evan L, Joe M, Jonah D, Dan K

If I am reading these documents correctly, we *are* considered an MSB according to FinCEN. Is this correct, Dave?
Virtual currency trading platform is an MSB, FinCEN FIN-2014-R011, October 27, 2014.
Virtual currency exchangers and administrators are MSBs, but users are not, FinCEN, March 18, 2013.
December 8, 2014: SEC fines BTC Trading Corp and Ethan Burnside for unlicensed virtual currency exchange and broker-dealer violations
January 2014: WA says virtual currency is the same as money for MSB regulation purposes.
June 24, 2014: Canada amends law to make virtual currency exchanges MSBs (even Canada)

If this is true, then I assume the following also applies?

In order to comply with Federal and State statutes, MSBs are required to have AML policies. An MSB AML policy is a set of rules and procedures to prevent the introduction of the proceeds of crime into the financial system by means of an MSB. An AML policy will address, amongst other things, underwriting of new clients and transactions, OFAC checking policies, transaction limits, policies to prevent facilitation of money laundering or the funding of terrorism and policies on the reporting of suspicious transactions.
In the United States, the essential criteria for an AML policy are set out, in part, in the Bank Secrecy Act which specifies that such policies must include the following elements: (1) a system of internal controls; (2) independent testing for compliance; (3) the designation of an individual, or individuals, to coordinate and monitor day-to-day compliance; and (4) training of appropriate personnel.
Failure of an MSB to draft, adopt and honor such a policy may result in severe repercussions for the MSB and those individuals who operate the MSB.

why the fuck is the 'information security officer' having to teach everyone else laws about money businesses? either way, im convinced after reading those articles



(bunch of other emails about KYC requirements)



Joe M to Dan K, Eric C, David M, Evan L, Joe M, Jonah D, Josh mothafuckin Garza

So I assume all of this needs to take place before launch (in order to stay out of jail)?

If so, I will go ahead and set expectations by saying that a multi level verification system simply cannot be built and tested thoroughly in 1-2 days to be publicly released (even if we were not already working all weekend to prepare the software for launch).

I have plans to go live on Monday (and I think everyone else is also aware of this but please correct me if not). This being the case, and considering a multi tier verification system needs to be implemented before launch, the software release will simply not happen on Monday. We will need to scope the work and the amount of time this will take to implement and give a realistic timeline for implementation and release (assuming we cannot launch without verification levels). I will also be involving security testing and exploit pin testers for this type of addition (as this is something that simply cannot have issues considering the severity).

I will begin working on this with my team and get back to everyone with a new launch date.

Am I missing something here or is everyone now on the same page?

Here joe clearly says that ' to do this the legal way, theres no way we can launch paybase on monday '



at this point josh breaks off from the chain email and sends one only to joe, ' dude dont listen to these trolls, their just spreading FUD '
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/17/ScreenShot2015-04-16at7.10.44PM.md.png



the "other email" josh referred to .... ' bro for real, fuck fincen '
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/17/ScreenShot2015-04-16at7.18.50PM.md.png



another email only to joe  ' trust me dude, stuart said its cool '
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/17/ScreenShot2015-04-16at7.11.07PM.md.png



this one goes out to the whole group ------ josh is all like, ' um fuck fincen, i been launderin money to dubai for months... we're launchin it anyway muahahahahahahha '
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/17/ScreenShot2015-04-16at7.15.11PM.md.png



then eric grows some balls and is like 'alright bro, but just know you're goin to jail! '
http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/17/ScreenShot2015-04-16at7.16.10PM.md.png

this is crazy shit but also information overload at the same time! try removing the embedded images... a little better.

So I gathered from this that the company was pushing for FINCEN / AML / KYC but Josh overruled them saying that "staying in business" was more important than abiding by the law?  Damn.... The turnout of this should be interesting.

[TrevorS]

I am not deeply involved in the Paycoin mess, sorry for this really basic question:
Are there still "primenodes" (or whatever they were called) frequently receiving large numbers of new coins?
Can "the community" edit the code and eliminate the large rewards for elite accounts after Josh is busted?

There is a hardfork planned by "the community" for April 20 to reduce the staking rate to 100% from 350%.

Still it rewards a small number of wallets (50) with a disproportionately high rate (100% vs 5% regular rate).

Prime controllers should be removed completely. There is no other community foundation or association as far as I am aware of that receives this type of benefit.


EDIT: BTW nice pic suchmoon, and GAWsome coffee mug. I'm assuming you are a car mechanic based on the background in the pic?

But you're overlooking the original intention (as in DASH/DRK) that they be responsible for accelerating transaction confirmation.  There's a lot of sorting out to do yet.

[vObh0n]6W]

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/03/2014 09:44:23 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   "jonah@btc.com" <jonah@btc.com>, David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>

Josh, my comments on the “testhashcoin.gawlabs.com<http://testhashcoin.gawlabs.com>” site are as follows:

(1) Remove the reference to the “Estimated Value - $80 - $100”. If you have a reference to an “estimated future value” anywhere else on the site, forums, email blasts, etc., please remove immediately. As we said one the phone, neither of us has any idea what will happen to the price when this thing is distributed.

(2) How does the “Fiat Reserve” work?

(3) On the ICO portion of the site, you talk about “ensuring” a breakthrough success. You can’t ensure this, so don’t promise it. I would say you are “committed to making HashCoin a success”

(4) Who is the Adoption Team comprised of?



On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:13 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com<mailto:josh@btc.com>> wrote:

Hey need to hear back soon if you have suggestions


Josh Garza
CEO- GAW Corp

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com<mailto:josh@btc.com>> wrote:
https://testhashcoin.gawlabs.com<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftesthashcoin.gawlabs.com&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHSkET0qZajw1QpBx6HScdwmQlPvg>

Josh Garza
CEO- GAW Corp



“The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and any attachments from your system.”

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/03/2014 09:50:09 PM
From:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
To:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>

What we what we think based on other coins that have launched. We are not
saying to will.

Can we just add a * and put a legal disclaimer at the bottom?

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/03/2014 09:54:29 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>

No, because people are going to see that number and think that they’re going to have an 8x return if they buy HashCoin in the public sale. There is an expectation of profit. That is a security.

It needs to come down.

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/04/2014 12:07:34 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>

Josh, you took down “$80 - $100", but you replaced it with “Increased Market Value”….you’re saying the same thing w/o using specific numbers. Remove that last hash coin graphic all together.


On Nov 3, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com<mailto:josh@btc.com>> wrote:

done, did not effect things, we are getting an a few hundred ICO request a second


Josh Garza
CEO- GAW Corp

Subject:   Re: Site
Date:   11/04/2014 01:34:53 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@geniusesatwork.com>

Josh,

(1) If you remove all references to “increased market value” you’ll be in better shape. Also, to further distance Hashcoin from an investment/security, every piece of information you disseminate to potential purchasers of Hashcoin should mention price stability, which you’ve done a pretty good job of so far. Keep it up.

(2) Can you tell me how the 1/3 Fiat Reserve will work?

(3) All funds raised should be stored in a wallet with BitGo, or some other credible company, and you should make the public address available to everyone. Transparency is key. I would also recommend making all expenditures from the Coin Adoption Fund public.

On Nov 3, 2014, at 11:25 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com<mailto:josh@btc.com>> wrote:

how much more do you have to review on the coin site?

Also, please let me know when you have a strategy we can discuss.



--
Sent from Gmail Mobile


“The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and any attachments from your system.”

Subject:   Re: Site
Date:   11/04/2014 05:28:53 PM
From:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
To:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@geniusesatwork.com>

I answered in line


*Josh Garza*
*CEO- *GAW Corp

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com> wrote:

>  Josh,
>​
>  (1) If you remove all references to “increased market value” you’ll be
> in better shape. Also, to further distance Hashcoin from an
> investment/security, every piece of information you disseminate to
> potential purchasers of Hashcoin should mention price stability, which
> you’ve done a pretty good job of so far. Keep it up.
>​

Cool, any other concerns on the site?

>​
>  (2) Can you tell me how the 1/3 Fiat Reserve will work?
>​

Will be an account to manage the float between fiat and the coin (like coin
base). Naturally, we will need a money transmission license.

>​
>  (3) All funds raised should be stored in a wallet with BitGo, or some
> other credible company, and you should make the public address available to
> everyone. Transparency is key. I would also recommend making all
> expenditures from the Coin Adoption Fund public.
>​

The moneys the money we raise still belong to us. We just are telling
people what we are doing with it. But I don’t think we need to prove it?

>​
>   On Nov 3, 2014, at 11:25 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com> wrote:
>​
> how much more do you have to review on the coin site?
>​
>  Also, please let me know when you have a strategy we can discuss.
>​
>​
>​
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>​
> “The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If
> you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or
> copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in
> error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and
> any attachments from your system.”
>​
>​
>​

[vObh0n]6W]

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/04/2014 05:30:12 PM
From:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
To:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>

The thinking here is that we are saying increased “market value” meaning
that more coins will be in the market.

We are not saying increased “coin” value


*Josh Garza*
*CEO- *GAW Corp

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com> wrote:

>  Josh, you took down “$80 - $100", but you replaced it with “Increased
> Market Value”….you’re saying the same thing w/o using specific numbers.
> Remove that last hash coin graphic all together.
>​
>​
>  On Nov 3, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com> wrote:
>​
>  done, did not effect things, we are getting an a few hundred ICO request
> a second
>​
>​
> *Josh Garza*
> *CEO- *GAW Corp
>​
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
> wrote:
>​
>> No, because people are going to see that number and think that they’re
>> going to have an 8x return if they buy HashCoin in the public sale. There
>> is an expectation of profit. That is a security.
>>​
>>  It needs to come down.
>>​
>>  On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:50 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com> wrote:
>>​
>>  What we what we think based on other coins that have launched. We are
>> not saying to will.
>>​
>> Can we just add a * and put a legal disclaimer at the bottom?
>> On Nov 3, 2014 9:44 PM, "Andy Beal" <andy@crowleystrategy.com> wrote:
>>​
>>> Josh, my comments on the “testhashcoin.gawlabs.com” site are as
>>> follows:
>>>​
>>>  (1) Remove the reference to the “Estimated Value - $80 - $100”. If you
>>> have a reference to an “estimated future value” anywhere else on the site,
>>> forums, email blasts, etc., please remove immediately. As we said one the
>>> phone, neither of us has any idea what will happen to the price when this
>>> thing is distributed.
>>>​
>>>  (2) How does the “Fiat Reserve” work?
>>>​
>>>  (3) On the ICO portion of the site, you talk about “ensuring” a
>>> breakthrough success. You can’t ensure this, so don’t promise it. I would
>>> say you are “committed to making HashCoin a success”
>>>​
>>>  (4) Who is the Adoption Team comprised of?
>>>​
>>>​
>>>​
>>>  On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:13 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com> wrote:
>>>​
>>>  Hey need to hear back soon if you have suggestions
>>>​
>>>​
>>> *Josh Garza*
>>> *CEO- *GAW Corp
>>>​
>>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com> wrote:
>>>​
>>>> https://testhashcoin.gawlabs.com
>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftesthashcoin.gawlabs.com&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHSkET0qZajw1QpBx6HScdwmQlPvg>
>>>>​
>>>> *Josh Garza*
>>>> *CEO- *GAW Corp
>>>>​
>>>​
>>>​
>>> “The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If
>>> you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or
>>> copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in
>>> error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and
>>> any attachments from your system.”
>>>​
>>>​
>>>​
>> “The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If
>> you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or
>> copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in
>> error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and
>> any attachments from your system.”
>>​
>>​
>>​
>​
> “The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If
> you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or
> copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in
> error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and
> any attachments from your system.”
>​
>​
>​

[suchmoon]

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

Two problems right there:
1) it's not just a personality issue, hyperinflation remains, as well as 50% of coins in useless Prime Controllers, "locked" but not really locked.
2) rhetoric remains, hate blah blah - the new leadership news to grow a pair and handle the shitstorm like it's supposed to.

There is probably more, like real transparency with signed messages and other nerdy stuff. Now that Garza is pretty much out of the picture there should be no more excuses and deflections.

[vObh0n]6W]

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/04/2014 05:36:32 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>

It’s not what you think, it is what a potential purchaser of HashCoin thinks. If someone reads that and thinks “My hashcoin is going to increase in value” you’re in trouble.

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/04/2014 05:39:47 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>
Cc:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>, David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>

IMO, I wouldn’t say either. That safest thing you can is not speculate AT ALL on the future price of HashCoin.


On Nov 4, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com<mailto:jonah@btc.com>> wrote:

Maybe we should use market cap?

--
Jonah Dorman
General Manager
GAW Miners LLC

[TrevorS]

There is a large community around it and they still have things partially done that can work if redesigned to benefit the holders and not just one or two people. Lots of dumb people but they still have a large amount of funds they could draw from and if you took the bad actors out then they might even see some returns.

Thanks for helping man, there's no way of knowing how things will ultimately work out for XPY, but if a group of people sincerely get behind it and attack its problems (and I think that's currently happening), then it could yet become a good coin.

The day paycoin becomes a "Good Coin" is the day I turn my back on crypto altogether.

+1

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

You just made me puke in my mouth, idiot.

So if we can remove the awful leaders, communism is a sound system? Idiot, the system is flawed because it allows such corrupted leaders to spawn. Remove GAW, and you know whos becoming next? lol

Same with Paycoin, the socalled "people's coins"

But i will let idiots like you fall for this.

Whoa, and you're a hero member?  Now I definitely know not to take those labels seriously!   Clearly instead of GAWD being worshiped in HT, here it's hate!

[TrevorS]

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

Two problems right there:
1) it's not just a personality issue, hyperinflation remains, as well as 50% of coins in useless Prime Controllers, "locked" but not really locked.
2) rhetoric remains, hate blah blah - the new leadership news to grow a pair and handle the shitstorm like it's supposed to.

There is probably more, like real transparency with signed messages and other nerdy stuff. Now that Garza is pretty much out of the picture there should be no more excuses and deflections.

Yes, the problems are real!  They have also begun to be attacked.  Let's just see how it goes!

[gawneedstobestopped]

Subject:   Re:
Date:   11/04/2014 05:36:32 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>, Jonah Dorman <jonah@btc.com>

It’s not what you think, it is what a potential purchaser of HashCoin thinks. If someone reads that and thinks “My hashcoin is going to increase in value” you’re in trouble.

LOL whos gonna break the news to hashtalk?

even the corporate attorney tells josh hes fucking up....

[cooldgamer]

so much for being an upstanding church going family.

being a hypocrite makes him a perfect church member

Hey lets keep this on track of him being a scammer and not start insulting billions of people.

Fuck the billions of weak minded fools that follow a fraud with blind faith. That's how Josh got many of these idiots to follow him. Josh is the same as any other cult leader. All religions are a cult and they are all about money and power.

Antitheist here, there really is no reason to bring that up.  We have a corrupt pastor, but not everybody that wears vests is a scamming sociopath either.  Head over to this thread and debate your heart out

Also, anybody know where I can get the mug in the 'suchmoon' picture?

Edit: found it

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008A0MI8E/?tag=691-20
/offtopic

Garza refusing to answer how much was spent on his 'floor' attempt.  Just walks out of the thread like he's a king.  https://hashtalk.org/topic/36620/hackers-prove-gaw-is-a-scam/51

[TrevorS]

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

Two problems right there:
1) it's not just a personality issue, hyperinflation remains, as well as 50% of coins in useless Prime Controllers, "locked" but not really locked.
2) rhetoric remains, hate blah blah - the new leadership news to grow a pair and handle the shitstorm like it's supposed to.

There is probably more, like real transparency with signed messages and other nerdy stuff. Now that Garza is pretty much out of the picture there should be no more excuses and deflections.

Would definitely be better to just start a fresh coin with zero of the corruption.

Yeah, it would be easier not having to tackle all the existing problems left by GAW/HJG.  But I do think some initial degree of respect might be in order, given they're so far willing to attack a very difficult problem.  We'll see!

[TheMage]

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

Two problems right there:
1) it's not just a personality issue, hyperinflation remains, as well as 50% of coins in useless Prime Controllers, "locked" but not really locked.
2) rhetoric remains, hate blah blah - the new leadership news to grow a pair and handle the shitstorm like it's supposed to.

There is probably more, like real transparency with signed messages and other nerdy stuff. Now that Garza is pretty much out of the picture there should be no more excuses and deflections.

Yes, the problems are real!  They have also begun to be attacked.  Let's just see how it goes!

Can you elaborate on what you mean here?

[mgibson38]

There is a large community around it and they still have things partially done that can work if redesigned to benefit the holders and not just one or two people. Lots of dumb people but they still have a large amount of funds they could draw from and if you took the bad actors out then they might even see some returns.

Thanks for helping man, there's no way of knowing how things will ultimately work out for XPY, but if a group of people sincerely get behind it and attack its problems (and I think that's currently happening), then it could yet become a good coin.

The day paycoin becomes a "Good Coin" is the day I turn my back on crypto altogether.

+1

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

[suchmoon]

Also, anybody know where I can get the mug in the 'suchmoon' picture?

I was going to look on eBay but I don't even know how to describe it. What is that thing?

[vObh0n]6W]

Subject:   Re: Checking GAW against the Securities and Exchange Commission list of Ponzi Red Flags..... : Bitcoin
Date:   11/05/2014 11:17:51 AM
From:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
To:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>, David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>

Dave, this is exactly what I was just telling you guys. It needs to be
changed immediately.

Andy what I mean by that is that we had twice the capacity to sell, we
have actually sold. I have said this for weeks now.

Additionally, we have already released many many pictures of our data
centers. On top of bitmain publicly confirming that we just ordered another
3 million dollars worth of gear.

What else do you suggest?

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014, Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com> wrote:

>  Josh,
>​
>  In the short term, I would post pictures of your data center and/or the
> shipments of new rigs when they arrive.  Let people know you’ve got the
> hardware!
>​
>  After reading the updated Terms of Use for zenminer.cloud, I think you
> do have a securities issue. You are selling a payout (revenue stream), not
> hardware. We need to rework what you are selling so that it is either (1)
> actual hardware, or (2) hashing power.
>​
>  What do you mean by “mining payouts are almost double our customers”?
>​
>  Andy
> —
>​
>​
>  On Nov 5, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Josh Garza <josh@btc.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','josh@btc.com');>> wrote:
>​
>​
> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ld1ko/checking_gaw_against_the_securities_and_exchange/
>​
> Andy, any thoughts on this? I feel like these guys are getting out of
> control.
>​
> At this point, our mining payouts are almost double our customers, so we
> are well ahead of the curve. How can we shut these guys up?
>​
> Also, please respond as quick as you can. Thanks!
>​
> “The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If
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>​
>​

--
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Subject:   Re: Checking GAW against the Securities and Exchange Commission list of Ponzi Red Flags..... : Bitcoin
Date:   11/05/2014 12:31:41 PM
From:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
To:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>

Sunshine is the best disinfectant . I would also make Brian Klein aware of the reddit post.

On the securities front, it’s not just an issue of language in the Terms of Use. Saying you are selling something and actually selling that are two different things. You need to be selling actual hashing power. I bought a 10GH/s Hashlet to see how the zenminer platform works, and my hashing power constantly fluctuates between 8.5GH and 10GH. If you’re selling hashing power, that number should remain constant, and my payout should fluctuate. Right now, it is the opposite.

Is there any truth to the “GAW sells its mining power to private companies” claim?

Subject:   Re: Checking GAW against the Securities and Exchange Commission list of Ponzi Red Flags..... : Bitcoin
Date:   11/05/2014 12:59:30 PM
From:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
To:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>

I feel like we are regressing, as we have already discussed this. But maybe
it would be more clear on the phone.

We are providing the exact thing we are selling. We are selling mining
capacity,a that's what we are providing. I think we have a call later today?

Subject:   Re: Checking GAW against the Securities and Exchange Commission list of Ponzi Red Flags..... : Bitcoin
Date:   11/05/2014 01:07:04 PM
From:   Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
To:   Andy Beal <andy@crowleystrategy.com>
Cc:   David McLain <dave@geniusesatwork.com>

Btw, ironically. Real hashing power fluctuates. Hashing is like a cpu, it
move around and goes up and down. That's actually how it works.

If you by from a company and it does not, that is not the actual hashing
power, rather a math equation.

So this means that if you buy it and it does not move, then what your
actually buying is a payout. Not actual hashing power.

Hm. Any mining experts want to weigh in?

[gawneedstobestopped]

Juliette then telling Josh she's pregnant with his scam baby?

Find it odd that I cancelled my augmentation consultation? Or that I did not move this weekend (didn't want to lift anything heavy)? Or why I have been crazy emotional? Or perhaps that my girls have been looking a little more enlarged? That I have been saying good night earlier, as I am crazy exhausted?....You are smart, I am sure you can put it together from here.

http://snipurl.com/29ukcjw

Ok now i might have a dark sense of humor at times, but this is just plain fucked up... Consider the situation above and read this chat Carlos sent to Josh...

[TrevorS]

Perhaps you fellows should turn your backs now.  You have an excessive dedication to hate.  The original problem with XPY is  GAW/HJG.  With that cancer removed from it, it's entirely possible the coin could become respectable.  Reserve your hate for the perpetrator of the fraud, not the coin.

Two problems right there:
1) it's not just a personality issue, hyperinflation remains, as well as 50% of coins in useless Prime Controllers, "locked" but not really locked.
2) rhetoric remains, hate blah blah - the new leadership news to grow a pair and handle the shitstorm like it's supposed to.

There is probably more, like real transparency with signed messages and other nerdy stuff. Now that Garza is pretty much out of the picture there should be no more excuses and deflections.

Yes, the problems are real!  They have also begun to be attacked.  Let's just see how it goes!

Can you elaborate on what you mean here?

What I see happening is the new leadership and team are trying to find their way through what is indeed a storm.  I see a separation from GAW/HJG.  I see a first round agreement with the PC owners for an initial drop of staking interest, including the burning of coins that exceed current allowances.  I see acceptance begun of the wallet that effects the staking change.  It's only a start, but it is a start, a beginning of applying brakes to a runaway train.  I also saw a willingness to reach out to someone with greater cryptographic experience than perhaps themselves.

[TeamButtcoin]

Hm. Any mining experts want to weigh in?

I can't speak to mining specifically, but CPU processing abilities are always in a state of flux...


...but not to the degree that it would have a noticeable impact on hashing over time

What I see happening is the new leadership and team are trying to find their way through what is indeed a storm.  I see a separation from GAW/HJG.  I see a first round agreement with the PC owners for an initial drop of staking interest, including the burning of coins that exceed current allowances.  I see acceptance begun of the wallet that effects the staking change.  It's only a start, but it is a start, a beginning of applying brakes to a runaway train.  I also saw a willingness to reach out to someone with greater cryptographic experience than perhaps themselves.

sorry but said train is off the tracks, smashed through a wall, and triage is being attempted on the few survivors, it will never run again.