GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[galdur]

So, running a cloud mining operation pretending to mine

BTC but instead mining shit and turning that into BTC

must be extremely lucrative and allow very high payouts.

Which is why there´s a constant din about scams and ponzis

and whatever from criminals, their lackeys and idiots

with interests in the price level of said shit.

[KC6TTR]

My hint is more for Scott to include it in his dossier since he has FCC, SEC. FTC should round it all off.

Maybe even contact the CIA since the claim that SHA + AUTHY is the standard that the CIA uses. Never heard a bigger crock of shit in my life.

Good point. However, regardless of their claims surrounding the use of "SHA"+AUTHY being soooOOOoooo secure, it does not comply with anything the CIA or any other agency uses (on the surface at least). Since the E-Government Act of 2002 (Public Law 107-347) was enacted, the definitions governing how the US government secures data has been covered in the Federal Information Processing Standards (FIPS). Any smart chip card, PC-linked interface, computer, and other data storing device must be FIPS compliant or it is a no-go. This is also applies in other countries, like Canada, the UK, and Germany, who follow similar security measures.

More info on the subject can be found here: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips199/FIPS-PUB-199-final.pdf

Scott-

[kebabman]

Oh look, they froze withdrawls again because loads of people had BTC go missing after the roll-back.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/21873/withdrawal-maintenance

Honestly, I almost feel bad for them, it must be tough running the "most innovative crypto-company (read: ponzi) IN THE WORLD" with such innept staff.  

[cryptofunk]

Oh look, they froze withdrawls again because loads of people had BTC go missing after the roll-back.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/21873/withdrawal-maintenance

Honestly, I almost feel bad for them, it must be tough running the "most innovative crypto-company (read: ponzi) IN THE WORLD" with such innept staff.  

Someone rolled back the database not thinking about the balances? Ouch!

[galdur]

Well, the clientele is very well domesticated

Now no withdrawls? This makes me sad, think I'm just going to call it a night. Totally ruined what I thought would be an awesome weekend.

[KC6TTR]

9.5 HashPoints.

ZenMiner utilizes an internal coupon and rebate reward system called Hashpoints. Hashpoints are the property of GAW and can be redeemed for products and services available on the ZenMiner Platform.  Hashpoints may be used once and may be subject to review upon submission for redemption. Hashpoints are electronically distributed the GAW and are not available via any other method. Hashpoints have no cash value and are not convertible into any from of cryptocurrency.  This rebate program shall not be construed as investment or guaranteed interest payout program, investment scheme, or participatory monetary pool in which Hashpoints have an “in house value”. Failure to use Hashpoints by the expiration date hereon shall result in forfeiture. GAW reserves the right to terminate the Hashpoint program at any time, for any reason.  In the case of fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of these terms and conditions, GAW reserves the right to take all available legal or administrative action. Other restrictions and exclusions may apply

In translation, by their own admission:

HP's are property of GAW/Zen, not you, the customer, and if you "mine" them instead of BTC, you are not "mining" anything of expressed or implied value - for you at least.

HP's cannot be obtained from any other source so they are worthless to you AND centralized in nature. That is a double whammy.

HP's have no cash value (finally confirmed) and cannot be converted into any from of cryptocurrency, such as PayCoin, even if Mt.Gox is still promoting 400HP's = 1XPY (or whatever it is they are calling it this week).

HP's and the entire GAW/Zen/PayCoin operation cannot be construed as anything legitimate or not - and if exposed as anything more than nothing, Mt.Gox reserves the right to click their heels and sing there is no-place-like-home before disappearing in to nothingness.

Yes, all the proof is right there and if you do not read and agree to (even without expressly doing so) all 9+ printed pages of the questionably unlawful TOS - you, by default, agree to them and accept all liability, risk, and expense.

That's reads like a win-win operation made for and by the people to me (not).

Scott-

[T0urist]

Oh look, they froze withdrawls again because loads of people had BTC go missing after the roll-back.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/21873/withdrawal-maintenance

Honestly, I almost feel bad for them, it must be tough running the "most innovative crypto-company (read: ponzi) IN THE WORLD" with such innept staff.  

What do you mean before the rollback? BTC goes missing all the time there with the perpetual money machine.. Its called the cashtaker and its making money disappear daily

[T0urist]

Now, Zen TOS..

Quote from: ZenCloud TOS
9.2 Hashlets.

A Hashlet is a divisible and assignable allocation of hasing power from Company-owned and hosted mining hardware. The amount of hashing power associated with a particular Hashlet may fluctuate depending on the performance and output of the underlying hardware. Some Hashlets may be optimized to work with multiple mining pools, while others may pool-specific.  The User understands that Hashlets are not physical devices and cannot be shipped to the User.

Through the ZenMiner Platform, the Company operates an internal marketplace for hashing power (the “Hash Market”), allowing Users to buy and sell hashlets . The Company reserves the right to charge a fee for such trading activity, which Company may determine in its sole discretion. Company may cancel any trade at any time, for any reason. The Company may also reverse a trade at any time, for any reason.

The User is not permitted to use automated methods, including but not limited to automatic scripts and trading bots, in conjunction with the Hash Market. Any executed trade in violation of this Section 9.2 will be reversed, and the proceeds from such trade(s) will be forfeited.

Have the report of invalid pricing in market being sold in less than a second been reverted and forfeited?  This section says "will" rather than "can".  With basic MySQL it would be easy to know that item A was listed at 00:00:00.000 and sold at 00:00:01.123. (date A minus date B greater than threshold)

TOS aren't valid law i don't understand why people believe they are. If Josh thinks because someone uses a bot he can keep the hashlet sale proceeds then he is wrong. Bots are prohibited and GAW can prevent such occurances and freeze accounts pending payouts but they in no way can take a customers asset. They would have to pay the customer and terminate the account... you cannot steal from your customers, regardless what a TOS says. Blizzard and world of warcraft can put what they want in there but it never overrides the law.

They can try and reverse payments all they want but if i want my BTC out of their system they have to comply. If they don't then it is theft. Doesn't stop them from delaying payments with system problems etc but their TOS is full of shit. Good luck holding those conditions up in a court of law. Josh could say in the event of a market bot we reserve the right to enslave your child in our detention camps, bbq your dog and eat it and take possessions of your house. He can state what the fuck he likes in a TOS but like all things he says its just hot air and wasted breath... listening to him will make you more stupid.

Failure to use Hashpoints by the expiration date hereon shall result in forfeiture. GAW reserves the right to terminate the Hashpoint program at any time, for any reason

Does this mean that playcoin can just shut down and you lose... or he can say use your hashpoints by tomorrow or they are gone.. but josh we can't buy anything with them yet... josh - not my fault.

[crashoveride54902]

i am running for the hills...almost sold off all my primes...will sell everything and exit stage left....i'm glad i'm getting out in time...and if paycoin actually does sell for 20 i've tripled my btc with gaw...not bad i just don't wanna stake anything as 6 months is years in crypto...hell even 3mths is a long time...oh well i'll leave it to the gawlovers to hold the bag...i'm sure they won't mind since they are just eating everything up

[deeneendo]

I wouldn't be surprised if GAW themselves were buying the lowest offers on the market to reduce the numbers of potential participants in the inevitable upcoming lawsuit.

[suchmoon]

Would be fun to have an archive of the TOS to be able to see an evolution over time.   

I had a couple of copies in the old thread. I've been meaning to link them to the OP and make more regular copies, maybe I should put that on my calendar like a monthly task or smth.

[galdur]

What helped drive me from GAW, along with the tanked

payouts, was the cult-like smell of the operation. This was

actually of little or no concern to me while things were

going well, just some curiosity to shrug off. But when it

seemed to prevail and even with more fervor after payouts

crashed I got really concerned. Some of the weirdos over

there reminded me of the Moonie who stated

"I don´t care if Moon is like Hitler, I´ve chosen to follow

him and I will to the end."

[Unacceptable]

The hashclaw is our master...ooooohhhhh

 

[galdur]

It all just seemed so weird. My zens were happily mining

the world´s best paying pool, then it sagged a little for a

few days and then boom - tanked. And the same day there

was this big hullabbaloo over the activation codes and that

scam. And I thought, wow maybe this Josh guy got an overdose

of the old testament as a kid and subscribes to the collective

punishment doctrine of that invisible guy in the sky. In that event

those payouts might never return and so maybe I best get the hell out.

[T0urist]

What helped drive me from GAW, along with the tanked

payouts, was the cult-like smell of the operation. This was

actually of little or no concern to me while things were

going well, just some curiosity to shrug off. But when it

seemed to prevail and even with more fervor after payouts

crashed I got really concerned. Some of the weirdos over

there reminded me of the Moonie who stated

"I don´t care if Moon is like Hitler, I´ve chosen to follow

him and I will to the end."

Heres something to think about too. Now i'm not saying this is what is happening because i think it likely isn't but its a possibility based on josh's past... josh has been known to use multiple accounts to promote himself / act as an ebay employee for a miner sale he didn't pay for and returned the item (as far as i know... google for this its not hard to find). But what if Josh has an inner circle of 10 people that all use 4 accounts. Thats 40 accounts that pump the user base up. I'm finding it hard to believe that many obliging people all got involved in crypto and found the church of GAW together. It just doesn't add up. Cryptocurrency is still in infancy i mean cmon its not easily usable it still has alot of technical know how to it. Most technical people work on reason, they are analytical skeptical, cynical on things. I work in IT and i was taken by GAW but i put it down to naivety. It took me around 4 days to wake up and get scared (i had a GAW investment for i think 7-8 days).

Its possible the cult mentality is actually a select group of people posing as more than there really are.

[owlcatz]

i am running for the hills...almost sold off all my primes...will sell everything and exit stage left....i'm glad i'm getting out in time...and if paycoin actually does sell for 20 i've tripled my btc with gaw...not bad i just don't wanna stake anything as 6 months is years in crypto...hell even 3mths is a long time...oh well i'll leave it to the gawlovers to hold the bag...i'm sure they won't mind since they are just eating everything up

loved that Rush reference, and good for you, fuck gawX.

[zerocoder]

Heres something to think about too. Now i'm not saying this is what is happening because i think it likely isn't but its a possibility based on josh's past... josh has been known to use multiple accounts to promote himself / act as an ebay employee for a miner sale he didn't pay for and returned the item (as far as i know... google for this its not hard to find). But what if Josh has an inner circle of 10 people that all use 4 accounts. Thats 40 accounts that pump the user base up. I'm finding it hard to believe that many obliging people all got involved in crypto and found the church of GAW together. It just doesn't add up. Cryptocurrency is still in infancy i mean cmon its not easily usable it still has alot of technical know how to it. Most technical people work on reason, they are analytical skeptical, cynical on things. I work in IT and i was taken by GAW but i put it down to naivety. It took me around 4 days to wake up and get scared (i had a GAW investment for i think 7-8 days).

Its possible the cult mentality is actually a select group of people posing as more than there really are.

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1yqx55/mining_rig_builders_do_not_sell_anything_or/ ??

[jimmothy]

For those not following pbmining: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=885224.0

Now a confirmed scam.

[suchmoon]

Yay, more contests:

https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/541376075117625344

Love paycoin? GAW is going to hold a "build a business" contest for paycoin and give out 100k in prizes. Stay tuned!

100k of what? "internal coupons and rebates not convertible into any from of cryptocurrency"?

I wonder what happened to all those bounties for business plans and also the 100 BTC bet.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Yay, more contests:

https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/541376075117625344

Love paycoin? GAW is going to hold a "build a business" contest for paycoin and give out 100k in prizes. Stay tuned!

100k of what? "internal coupons and rebates not convertible into any from of cryptocurrency"?

I wonder what happened to all those bounties for business plans and also the 100 BTC bet.

He still doesn't have a business plan yet he already sold the business plan, and not the technology, to the VC's and bankers AND these fucking fools can't see any of this because they're fucking blinded by a contest with bullshit giveaways and probably more shiny stickers under their name. He's dealing with the dumbest and most gullible people I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. It's sad to say but a lot of these people just need to learn a lesson the hard way. And they will.