GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[ColdSpirit]

Josh has not bad mouthed BTC

Why are you even covering for his gaffes? I understand you like PayCoin's promises, fair enough. Admitting that the leader is prone to running his mouth would actually give you guys more credibility, I'm surprised that you don't see it. Blindly defending even the most outrageous statements is one of the reasons for this deepening rift between PayCoin proponents and opponents. Not that there aren't any other issues mind you.

LOL

How many hashlets you sold on hashmarket by mistake? Or how much anyone pays you to flood people minds with distrust?

[bitcoinnoisseur]

I think anyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is doing a good thing. Bitcoin has made it's leaps and bounds. Bitcoin payments on websites, ATMs, etc. Why slam another crypto for trying to do the same thing? Josh has said they will absolutely not sell out. It's all over the forums where he's stated this. Slamming Paycoin and Gaw for wanting to help bring the crypto world to the average person is a slap in the face to the whole community. We need to support each other not kick each other in the teeth. And PayCoin won't outdo Bitcoin. There will still be plenty of room for Bitcoin to thrive.

I don't see what the big fuss is. Can't we all just get along and work together?

Everyone trying to bring crypto to the forefront is NOT a good idea when there are people doing it maliciously to gain quick wealth at the cost of anyone they can get money from. Actually NO we can't all just get along and work together. This is the real world and not fantasy. Fantasy is what seems to drive this entire paycoin endeavor from almost all devs that didn't possess the power to either understand it or to make it a reality. Fantasy is believing that devs were found and paid YET did such a shitty job that Josh had to go begging his customers to figure it out and fix it. Fantasy is believing that huge VC's and bankers backed paycoin based on his business model and not the technology YET Josh is now running a contest with his customers to come up with the very business model that he supposedly already sold. We do agree however that paycoin will NOT outdo bitcoin.

You've got a lot of angst built up in them little fingers sir or madam, or whatever ye may be. I'm done here. I wish you all Bitcoiners, Litecoiners, etc all the affluence in the world and all the best. Have a great life!

Yes because I thoroughly detest anyone that takes advantage of people especially the uneducated. Crypto is for everyone and when you fuck over the general population for personal gain because they don't fully understand what's going on then you are a complete scumbag and you deserve nothing but the worst.

[wdl1908]

Yes because I thoroughly detest anyone that takes advantage of people especially the uneducated. Crypto is for everyone and when you fuck over the general population for personal gain because they don't fully understand what's going on then you are a complete scumbag and you deserve nothing but the worst.

So you think most of the people on HT are uneducated?

[DirtFighter]

Josh has not bad mouthed BTC

Why are you even covering for his gaffes? I understand you like PayCoin's promises, fair enough. Admitting that the leader is prone to running his mouth would actually give you guys more credibility, I'm surprised that you don't see it. Blindly defending even the most outrageous statements is one of the reasons for this deepening rift between PayCoin proponents and opponents. Not that there aren't any other issues mind you.

I am not blind I can assure you that. Yes Josh has a habit of saying things with out considering how his opposition will twist it. Seems a lot of folks have become quite the experts at it. i am not trying to cause any rift ...truth is I do not frequent this forum by choice but I used to have a friendly relationship with K6TTR and he said he would answer questions so I asked a couple and in waiting for a reply chose to address what I see half truths and twisting of words.

[KC6TTR]

What's your goal? To prove there aren't enough miners? Then door in the face with sec? What if you tipped him off and he's buying every used miner he can? And lease the actual warehouse? What has the fcc said so far?

Well, since I just lost almost an hour's worth of work in my replies by accidentally hitting the back key, I will keep this simple. and try to elaborate on as I go.

There are two components at play here:
A. The Hardware
B. The Financial

Both play off one-another.

Hardware:
Nearly every electronic device sold within the United States radiates unintentional emissions and must be reviewed to comply with CFR 47, Part 15 before it can be legally imported, advertised and/or sold within the US market. This process has been established to insure safe operation of the equipment and to certify one device is not going heed the operation of another device. These days, this ever increasingly important process involves first filing FCC Form 740 [or the electronic equivalent] then having a FCC approved third party test facility certify each device [model] in question before a publicly accessible FCC approval status is assigned to the submitting company’s existing or newly issued FCC ID. After this stage, the appropriate product labels with the FCC certification identifier are made and applied to each unit (typically alongside the serial number of the device).

GAW Miners primary alleged violation was having their name/logo placed on uncompliant mining hardware and then importing this hardware in volume to (1) use and (2) sell it within the US. This opens GAW/Zen up to a significant amount of liability for each and every device they have sold or continue to use every day in their own operation. As a once FCC licensed ISP, it also does not help their case if they claim ignorance of the regulations. Likewise, being complacent to or knowing the FCC (and unrelated CE) logos placed on each miner PCB imported without proper certification creates an environment of potential regulatory fraud on the part of GAW Miners et al.

Financial:
Since day one, I allege GAW/Zen has been using the ill-gotten gains from their uncompliant hardware sales to facilitate the genesis and continuing infrastructure backbone of what many see as a highly suspicious Ponzi-type operation. Since this component of the situation is more legally sensitive, I cannot and will not get in to any details other than it is being investigated and time will tell the outcome on that front.

-To your question-

My goal is simple:
To prove those who said I had no proof of any GAW wrongdoing and questioned my professionalism wrong.

As I have always stated, I have no ill feeling towards Mr. Garza or his family. However, I take being attacked with unfounded legal action seriously and will open my own “war chest” to fight for the segment of the industry that does play by the rules and must comply with the laws others feel do not apply to them. This has nothing to do with ham radio, tin hats, or me feeling bad about being banned from HT, which I don't. This has everything to do with making sure everyone who wishes to get involved in this industry as a hobby or business can do so without feeling like they are being scammed, led on, or swindled out of their money - which only defaces the REAL industry and makes it that much harder to adopt in the real world.

Scott-

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Yes because I thoroughly detest anyone that takes advantage of people especially the uneducated. Crypto is for everyone and when you fuck over the general population for personal gain because they don't fully understand what's going on then you are a complete scumbag and you deserve nothing but the worst.

So you think most of the people on HT are uneducated?

Actually yes I do but I think many more are just ignorant and greedy. However, HT users are just a small percentage of people that have been suckered into throwing all their money at GAW.

[wdl1908]

Scott,

Some questions here what does US customs check when they import electronics equipment? FCC compliance right? So how do you think those items you said GAW purchased came through customs?

[wdl1908]

Yes because I thoroughly detest anyone that takes advantage of people especially the uneducated. Crypto is for everyone and when you fuck over the general population for personal gain because they don't fully understand what's going on then you are a complete scumbag and you deserve nothing but the worst.

So you think most of the people on HT are uneducated?

Actually yes I do but I think many more are just ignorant and greedy. However, HT users are just a small percentage of people that have been suckered into throwing all their money at GAW.

So how come some of the people that are not uneducated are staying. And please don't come up with the word shill or payed.

[KC6TTR]

Would it help ANYONE if I had an open Q&A to address my motivations and reasoning for today's announcement?

Scott-

Yeah right here

OK, let's begin. Ask away and I will do my best to answer them in a direct manner. Even my critics are welcome to join as long as they keep it civil.

Scott-

What started all this?...I remember you from HT and seemed you used to be  a happy and active member of that community.

What is the end game? what do you hope to accomplish?

What started all this?
In simplest terms, me bringing up some concerns to Mr. Garza directly and offering my constructive criticism in August on his forums, which were never disrespectful in my opinion, but conveniently got me shadow then permanently banned and saw over $1000 worth of my BTC held for over (10) business days without an apology or real reason why. That was about the time I submitted my first SEC complaint. What triggered me to take additional action was the unfounded C&D letter received from Mr. Garza's attorney and the continual character assassination attempts that are being made. Combine that with others who have experienced the same treatment after identifying some major red flags and we find ourselves here.

[KC6TTR]

Yes. Why GAW specifically? There are quite a few other US mining operations. Don't you think this kind of action is counter-productive to the crypto community? Aren't we all supposed to be striving to help one another to bring crypto to the forefront of the public eye instead of tearing each other apart? What is your honest gut motivation in doing this?

For the greater good of the industry, something must be done to make sure everyone is on the same page and playing field. This has nothing to do with small home based miners who consider this a hobby. If we all do not self-police and make sure what we are doing is legal on the most basic levels, how are we going to expect any real-world segment to adopt the technology? It has to start somewhere.

As mentioned, GAW is not a consumer taking delivery of one or two miners. They are a for-profit enterprise that is making money off the use of thousands of these devices in question. Combine that with the other financial reds flags identified in their business activities and that should address your first question.

Scott-

[wdl1908]

Yes. Why GAW specifically? There are quite a few other US mining operations. Don't you think this kind of action is counter-productive to the crypto community? Aren't we all supposed to be striving to help one another to bring crypto to the forefront of the public eye instead of tearing each other apart? What is your honest gut motivation in doing this?

For the greater good of the industry, something must be done to make sure everyone is on the same page and playing field. This has nothing to do with small home based miners who consider this a hobby. If we all do not self-police and make sure what we are doing is legal on the most basic levels, how are we going to expect any real-world segment to adopt the technology? It has to start somewhere.

As mentioned, GAW is not a consumer taking delivery of one or two miners. They are a for-profit enterprise that is making money off the use of thousands of these devices in question. Combine that with the other financial reds flags identified in their business activities and that should address your first question.

Scott-

So what about all the other cloud mining companies that have datacenters with miners?

[KC6TTR]

Don't you own a mining farm of your own?  How can you operate your HAM if you're sitting right next to a bunch of signal jammers?  Aren't you just as liable as GAW for owning and operating said miners?

I had a mining farm active until recently and the answer is I could not use my ham gear next to or near my miners - which is what originally caused me to investigate that aspect of the situation. The ASIC's operating at full clock speed generate what we call "intermod" (intermodulation) that gets in to the harmonic (the crystal reference frequency) of the ham (and other) radios (more so on the HF transceivers than the VHF/UHF ones) and makes them useless in close quarters (within 30 meters).

As far as being liable:
I am a licensed ham radio operator and my license allows me use or make (homebrew) just about anything I wish for testing purposes within the frequency bands I am licensed for at the address on file with the FCC. Now, if I were to offer anything I made for sale, that is a different story and I would have to certify the device just like anyone else.

Again, simply buying a device from overseas or within the USA does not make one liable. It is how that device is used and/or what is done AFTER learning of its incompliant nature.

Scott-

[KC6TTR]

Yes. Why GAW specifically? There are quite a few other US mining operations. Don't you think this kind of action is counter-productive to the crypto community? Aren't we all supposed to be striving to help one another to bring crypto to the forefront of the public eye instead of tearing each other apart? What is your honest gut motivation in doing this?

For the greater good of the industry, something must be done to make sure everyone is on the same page and playing field. This has nothing to do with small home based miners who consider this a hobby. If we all do not self-police and make sure what we are doing is legal on the most basic levels, how are we going to expect any real-world segment to adopt the technology? It has to start somewhere.

As mentioned, GAW is not a consumer taking delivery of one or two miners. They are a for-profit enterprise that is making money off the use of thousands of these devices in question. Combine that with the other financial reds flags identified in their business activities and that should address your first question.

Scott-

So what about all the other cloud mining companies that have datacenters with miners?

I cannot tell the future, but they have not threatened me and I have not seen any of them make the claims GAW/Zen has. Regardless, that question is probably better suited for the regulators directly and not me. It is my hope they are or will be in compliance too.

Scott-

[theboarderdude]

Why not add every other cloud mining provider to this? Even if people have to be selling mining power to fall under this, there are what, a dozen other companies you could add to this? Why not?

[I_IZ_CEO]

Does this guy know what he is talking about? From this post on HT

https://hashtalk.org/topic/15099/i-think-i-figured-out-josh-s-plan

So lets say you're a big retailer, take Amazon for example. Sure, they could accept bitcoin, it's just software. But they wont, because your investment can go down as well as up. Amazon are not going to sell things for a currency that could be worthless tomorrow. Bitcoin has value right now, but tomorrow the price could fall to pennies and never come back up. This is true of all investments, not just bitcoin

Its my understanding that company's like newegg, overstock.com etc. are hosted by company's like coinbase etc. and transactions are managed and converted to fiat for the seller instantly at current BTC value, thus there is no risk for seller, coinbase excepts all the risk of BTC "falling to pennies" as he says in his HT post. lol So I guess his assumption is wrong or he is just uninformed. The retailer holds no BTC   

He needs to do his homework a little more.

Yes and no.  The point is that these companies are simply dumping for fiat, as you say instead of holding the crypto.  Insta dumping hurts the value.

GAW's vision is to create a stable coin so these companies won't immediately dump.  It's going to take time to get companies on board with this.

A company will never hold crypto. It doesn't matter if it's bitcoin or paycoin. Crypto will always be too volatile compared to FIAT, no matter how much you try to financially back it. A free market is a free market, you cannot control the price of a coin forever. In this sense, paycoin will never truly be useful at all. Bitcoin already does a fine job of being used for transactions because of payment processors like Coinbase.

GAW is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I'm sorry but it absolutely will not catch on anywhere besides the inner circle of Hashtalk.

I think some have their own "crypto"... is it gold, coins, gold coins, tokens, chips etc in many games, businesses etc. Now the amazon coin. How does their value hold? I think the comment the Zeus guy (Terry?) made was in this respect?

[corygto]

Why not add every other cloud mining provider to this? Even if people have to be selling mining power to fall under this, there are what, a dozen other companies you could add to this? Why not?

Probably because the other mining companies aren't running around sending C&D letters to anybody who wants them to prove they are a legitimate business.

[wdl1908]

I cannot tell the future, but they have not threatened me and I have not seen any of them make the claims GAW/Zen has. Regardless, that question is probably better suited for the regulators directly and not me. It is my hope they are or will be in compliance too.

Scott-

So this is nothing more than a personal vendatta?

[I_IZ_CEO]

Does this guy know what he is talking about? From this post on HT

https://hashtalk.org/topic/15099/i-think-i-figured-out-josh-s-plan

So lets say you're a big retailer, take Amazon for example. Sure, they could accept bitcoin, it's just software. But they wont, because your investment can go down as well as up. Amazon are not going to sell things for a currency that could be worthless tomorrow. Bitcoin has value right now, but tomorrow the price could fall to pennies and never come back up. This is true of all investments, not just bitcoin

Its my understanding that company's like newegg, overstock.com etc. are hosted by company's like coinbase etc. and transactions are managed and converted to fiat for the seller instantly at current BTC value, thus there is no risk for seller, coinbase excepts all the risk of BTC "falling to pennies" as he says in his HT post. lol So I guess his assumption is wrong or he is just uninformed. The retailer holds no BTC   

He needs to do his homework a little more.

Yes and no.  The point is that these companies are simply dumping for fiat, as you say instead of holding the crypto.  Insta dumping hurts the value.

GAW's vision is to create a stable coin so these companies won't immediately dump.  It's going to take time to get companies on board with this.

A company will never hold crypto. It doesn't matter if it's bitcoin or paycoin. Crypto will always be too volatile compared to FIAT, no matter how much you try to financially back it. A free market is a free market, you cannot control the price of a coin forever. In this sense, paycoin will never truly be useful at all. Bitcoin already does a fine job of being used for transactions because of payment processors like Coinbase.

GAW is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I'm sorry but it absolutely will not catch on anywhere besides the inner circle of Hashtalk.

And you just did the same thing the general public did to Bitcoin when they said that Bitcoin would never be accepted as a payment form but many companies now use it. It just makes me sad kind of to see people within the community as a whole fighting each other. I don't know about you but the main reason I got into crypto was to support the cause. Of course there's money to be made but if all we focus on is the money then we're no better than the corrupt banking & financial institutions that the crypto movement was was invented to counter in the first place. This whole back and forth bickering makes us no better than the banking and financial systems that are currently in place. We all, I hope, came to this venture with a glimmer of hope of returning the power of money back to the average citizen. A currency that couldn't be manipulated and lorded over the common man.

I agree with this and that is why the movement took off, at least I think so. But this paycoin is bringing it back in this direction, banks corrupt investors and for profit and a lot of profit. Not only that but the high returns etc.. I think this is the reason people are mad and are against it, on top of it being a possible HUGE scam.

[NeonTranceBadger]

Why not add every other cloud mining provider to this? Even if people have to be selling mining power to fall under this, there are what, a dozen other companies you could add to this? Why not?

Almost all the other cloud mining companies aren't operated within the US.  Actually I would go as far as to say GAW is the only US based cloud mining service.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Yes because I thoroughly detest anyone that takes advantage of people especially the uneducated. Crypto is for everyone and when you fuck over the general population for personal gain because they don't fully understand what's going on then you are a complete scumbag and you deserve nothing but the worst.

So you think most of the people on HT are uneducated?

Actually yes I do but I think many more are just ignorant and greedy. However, HT users are just a small percentage of people that have been suckered into throwing all their money at GAW.

So how come some of the people that are not uneducated are staying. And please don't come up with the word shill or payed.

Pure greed and possibly weak minded hence the blind-faith.