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Author Topic: FastCash4Bitcoins Support Thread  (Read 87588 times)
crazylikeafox
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May 02, 2013, 03:40:42 AM
 #901

 

This is just a suggestion, but perhaps you should setup multiple recipient accounts at different banks for receiving wires from Mt. Gox, and maintain one sending account at yet another bank that is only used for sending to customers.  Money goes from Mt. Gox to a recipient account, and is then wired from the recipient account to the sending account where you use it to send out funds to customers. The sending account never receives money directly from Mt. Gox and is never in danger.  Use only one recipient account at once, until it gets shut down, and then immediately switch your withdrawal info at Mt. Gox to a clean, already opened recipient account when the current one gets closed down.
You just described money laundering

Actually, nimda, you and those LOLing with you, could not be more wrong.  It's only money laundering is only if the funds are from an ILLEGAL source.  You can do whatever you want with legally obtained money.  Send it through 50 banks if you like.

18 USC § 1956 (the primary money laundering statute):
Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity....
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nimda
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May 02, 2013, 03:48:19 AM
 #902

 

This is just a suggestion, but perhaps you should setup multiple recipient accounts at different banks for receiving wires from Mt. Gox, and maintain one sending account at yet another bank that is only used for sending to customers.  Money goes from Mt. Gox to a recipient account, and is then wired from the recipient account to the sending account where you use it to send out funds to customers. The sending account never receives money directly from Mt. Gox and is never in danger.  Use only one recipient account at once, until it gets shut down, and then immediately switch your withdrawal info at Mt. Gox to a clean, already opened recipient account when the current one gets closed down.
You just described money laundering

Actually, nimda, and those LOLing with you, could not be more wrong.  It's only money laundering is only if the funds are from an ILLEGAL source.  You can do whatever you want with legally obtained money.  Send it through 50 banks if you like.

[text obtained from the 19th plane of oblivion]
Actually, crazylikeafox, it was a joke. No need to quote that abomination of a law in this thread.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
TangibleCryptography
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May 02, 2013, 04:16:23 AM
 #903

snip.  rumor.

We don't receive any wires from MtGox.
TangibleCryptography
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May 02, 2013, 04:18:19 AM
 #904

We are curious about how/why business bank accounts can just close like that? It obviously was an on going issue with the bank or something? Why would a bank close an account that is in the black and making them money?

We were advised the depositor agreement can be ended by either party at any time for any reason (including a lack of reason).  PNC chose to end the depositor agreement.  There was no "ongoing issue", they provided no recourse, no remedy, no appeal, and no reason for the closure.  To date we have (AFAIK) no complaints, no investigations, and no instances of fraud (real or reported).  The account was never frozen or (once again AFAIK) subject to any fraud hold.  We were able to wire out the closing balance (down to the penny) without issue.

Quote
To confirm, the only way for me to cash out any bitcoin I had would be to have you guys send me a check right?
Until such time as we have Treasury Management features (batch ACH & wire) at another bank where we hold accounts the only payment options will be company check, Dwolla, or PayPal.  Unrelated to this closure we have some liquidity issues which are resulting in demand greatly outstripping available supply so all payment options are routinely out of funds.  A fix is in the works but no ETA is available.
opentoe
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May 02, 2013, 04:35:01 AM
 #905

We are curious about how/why business bank accounts can just close like that? It obviously was an on going issue with the bank or something? Why would a bank close an account that is in the black and making them money?

We were advised the depositor agreement can be ended by either party at any time for any reason (including a lack of reason).  PNC chose to end the depositor agreement.  There was no "ongoing issue", they provided no recourse, no remedy, no appeal, and no reason for the closure.  To date we have (AFAIK) no complaints, no investigations, and no instances of fraud (real or reported).  The account was never frozen or (once again AFAIK) subject to any fraud hold.  We were able to wire out the closing balance (down to the penny) without issue.

Quote
To confirm, the only way for me to cash out any bitcoin I had would be to have you guys send me a check right?
Until such time as we have Treasury Management features (batch ACH & wire) at another bank where we hold accounts the only payment options will be company check, Dwolla, or PayPal.  Unrelated to this closure we have some liquidity issues which are resulting in demand greatly outstripping available supply so all payment options are routinely out of funds.  A fix is in the works but no ETA is available.

Now it is even more interesting to me since it was closed with no reason out of the blue. Either way there was someone behind a computer reviewing the account in some manner and closed it for a "reason" we will never know. I doubt it was in error or a random computer glitch. Could you guys write a request as to why it was closed, or you don't care? I'm sorry for bringing it up again it is just turning into a murder type mystery book here. I guess anything bitcoin related has these tendacies to isolated out.

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DeathAndTaxes
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May 02, 2013, 05:16:25 AM
 #906

We are curious about how/why business bank accounts can just close like that? It obviously was an on going issue with the bank or something? Why would a bank close an account that is in the black and making them money?

We were advised the depositor agreement can be ended by either party at any time for any reason (including a lack of reason).  PNC chose to end the depositor agreement.  There was no "ongoing issue", they provided no recourse, no remedy, no appeal, and no reason for the closure.  To date we have (AFAIK) no complaints, no investigations, and no instances of fraud (real or reported).  The account was never frozen or (once again AFAIK) subject to any fraud hold.  We were able to wire out the closing balance (down to the penny) without issue.

Quote
To confirm, the only way for me to cash out any bitcoin I had would be to have you guys send me a check right?
Until such time as we have Treasury Management features (batch ACH & wire) at another bank where we hold accounts the only payment options will be company check, Dwolla, or PayPal.  Unrelated to this closure we have some liquidity issues which are resulting in demand greatly outstripping available supply so all payment options are routinely out of funds.  A fix is in the works but no ETA is available.

Now it is even more interesting to me since it was closed with no reason out of the blue. Either way there was someone behind a computer reviewing the account in some manner and closed it for a "reason" we will never know. I doubt it was in error or a random computer glitch. Could you guys write a request as to why it was closed, or you don't care? I'm sorry for bringing it up again it is just turning into a murder type mystery book here. I guess anything bitcoin related has these tendacies to isolated out.

We asked and of course we care, we spent a significant amount of time an energy integrating our backend with theirs.  We were given no specific reason, no appeal, no details.  I even made some personal phone calls to contacts within the bank, contacts who in the past were very helpful only to get canned responses about accounts can be closed at the discretion of the bank at any time for any reason without appeal. I have some theories but they would merely be speculation.  My understanding is that this isn't unusual just about every bitcoin related company has dealt with similar issues in the past (and likely will in the future).
Bitco
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May 02, 2013, 08:48:16 AM
 #907

Before we end up with a long thread about how PNC is anti-bitcoin, I want to point out that PNC recently made some very restrictive changes to the account agreements, which include a mandatory arbitration provision to prevent customers from suing them.  This was begun in February, and they have since closed accounts of customers who objected.  I don't know what legal issues they are attempting to avoid, but this was a widespread policy change at PNC.  I am very curious what prompted it, and how many customers PNC lost, but they're not willing to say.
TangibleCryptography
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May 02, 2013, 01:16:22 PM
 #908

Before we end up with a long thread about how PNC is anti-bitcoin, I want to point out that PNC recently made some very restrictive changes to the account agreements, which include a mandatory arbitration provision to prevent customers from suing them.  This was begun in February, and they have since closed accounts of customers who objected.  I don't know what legal issues they are attempting to avoid, but this was a widespread policy change at PNC.  I am very curious what prompted it, and how many customers PNC lost, but they're not willing to say.


We probably should move PNC talk to a new thread but I can confirm this was not the reason for closing.  We accepted the updated terms.  My understanding is that since "PayPal terms" have won on appeal it is only a matter of time until every major corporation (financial or otherwise) adopts similar terms.  IIRC the terms don't prohibit lawsuits in favor or arbitration just class action lawsuits.  Regardless expect every major "service" company you work with to adopt similar policies (cable company, ISP, hosting providers, banks, credit cards, mortgages, etc).

BTW I don't think PNC is "anti-bitcoin", banks in generally are anti-work.  Meaning they are happy to charge tens of thousands of dollars a year in fees but any account which may result in additional work well that will get you closed. 
TangibleCryptography
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May 02, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
 #909

Update:
So back on topic.  There are funds for checks available again.  We have funds enroute to PayPal & Dwolla but they aren't going to clear until next week.

We are working with provider to establish batch ACH/Wire capabilities but it is a slow process so there is no ETA.  I understand some clients are anxious for news but please don't fill our inbox asking when ACH/Wires will be available again.
madmailman96
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May 02, 2013, 02:00:46 PM
 #910

Update:
So back on topic.  There are funds for checks available again.  We have funds enroute to PayPal & Dwolla but they aren't going to clear until next week.

We are working with provider to establish batch ACH/Wire capabilities but it is a slow process so there is no ETA.  I understand some clients are anxious for news but please don't fill our inbox asking when ACH/Wires will be available again.

Damn you guys sell out fast, saw $2000 for check and then by the time I copied in my refund address it was gone!
TangibleCryptography
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May 02, 2013, 02:05:02 PM
 #911

Update:
So back on topic.  There are funds for checks available again.  We have funds enroute to PayPal & Dwolla but they aren't going to clear until next week.

We are working with provider to establish batch ACH/Wire capabilities but it is a slow process so there is no ETA.  I understand some clients are anxious for news but please don't fill our inbox asking when ACH/Wires will be available again.

Damn you guys sell out fast, saw $2000 for check and then by the time I copied in my refund address it was gone!

There is a "backlog" of sellers who have been waiting.  We should have more funds available this evening and tomorrow. As the backlog clears it should be easier to catch available funds.
Bitco
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May 02, 2013, 05:13:57 PM
 #912

We probably should move PNC talk to a new thread but I can confirm this was not the reason for closing.  We accepted the updated terms.  My understanding is that since "PayPal terms" have won on appeal it is only a matter of time until every major corporation (financial or otherwise) adopts similar terms.  IIRC the terms don't prohibit lawsuits in favor or arbitration just class action lawsuits.  Regardless expect every major "service" company you work with to adopt similar policies (cable company, ISP, hosting providers, banks, credit cards, mortgages, etc).

BTW I don't think PNC is "anti-bitcoin", banks in generally are anti-work.  Meaning they are happy to charge tens of thousands of dollars a year in fees but any account which may result in additional work well that will get you closed. 

I wasn't necessarily implying that the updated terms were specifically the reason for closing your account, rather that PNC bank has been expending a lot of effort lately to ensure that people don't sue them, and they are willing to lose profitable customers in pursuit of this goal.
DeathAndTaxes
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May 03, 2013, 12:24:49 AM
 #913

Update: more bank funds available. 
madmailman96
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May 03, 2013, 03:05:30 AM
 #914

phew, just barely caught them.
alexanderanon
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May 03, 2013, 04:01:13 AM
 #915

They go so fast. Makes me think we need more services like fastcash to bring more volume, esp considering all the bank account issues..
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May 03, 2013, 04:37:07 PM
 #916

Update: more bank funds available. 
too bad he wont answer pm or emails Sad
Benson Samuel
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May 04, 2013, 10:49:03 AM
 #917

Update:


April has been a challenging month with the extreme volatility of the aftermath of the second largest crash in Bitcoin history, the closure of bitfloor (and other exchanges), and now the closure of our primary bank account.  We aren't going away.  Despite all that happened in April we remain profitable, and no client has lost funds or had payments delayed. 

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Awesome!

TangibleCryptography
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May 04, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
 #918

Update: more bank funds available.
DeathAndTaxes
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May 05, 2013, 03:36:56 AM
 #919

Update: more bank funds available.

Wow, and they are still there 10 hours later. That has never seemed to happen before Smiley

Yeah funding is slowly getting back to normal.  We have a solid amount "in the pipe" going to PayPal and Dwolla so availability should improve there as well next week.
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May 05, 2013, 07:39:54 PM
 #920

when will the paypal fund arrive?


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