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Author Topic: FastCash4Bitcoins Support Thread  (Read 87431 times)
TangibleCryptography
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May 25, 2013, 05:29:17 PM
 #1001

  A user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations.8 Such activity, in and of itself, does not fit within the definition of "money transmission services" and therefore is not subject to FinCEN's registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.9

First of all that is a guidance letter not the law.  The law is what I quoted.  Second what goods or services did you exchange for those BTC you acquired?  None.  You exchanged "real" currency for virtual currency.  That doesn't make you a "user" under FinCEN guidelines that makes you an "exchanger".  Thus you are required to register as an MSB.  You are exchanging real currency for virtual currency on a regular basis in a for profit enterprise.  So once again why haven't you registered as a MSB?  Furthermore since you believe state regulation also applies why haven't you sought out MT licensing in all the states where you have conducted business?
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TangibleCryptography
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May 25, 2013, 05:30:22 PM
 #1002

Yes, I am saying exactly what you think I am saying.  Individual USERS of virtual currency are not regulated.

You aren't merely a user.  By your self described actions you regularly exchange virtual currency for real currency and as such are an exchanger which by FinCEN (somewhat convoluted logic) makes you a MSB.

Quote
An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency.

You exchanged virtual currency for real currency.  You did so for profit.  You did so regularly.  You are by FinCEN logic an "exchanger".

Quote
An administrator or exchanger that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency for any reason is a money transmitter under FinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person.10 FinCEN's regulations define the term "money transmitter" as a person that provides money transmission services, or any other person engaged in the transfer of funds. The term "money transmission services" means "the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location or person by any means."11

Please register with FinCEN since you want to be helpful. 
Bitco
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May 25, 2013, 05:34:13 PM
 #1003

I don't know about you, but didn't tangible just admit above that they just transmitted $500,000 last week?  Maybe they think Virginia's laws are different then NY?  Oh well, just trying to help those who may be less familiar with the law.

They had $500,000 in purchases.  Money sent as part of a purchase or sale is not considered money transmission under federal regulations.  I don't know the specifics of Virginia law, but Tangible Cryptography seems to have competent legal counsel advising them on these issues.
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May 25, 2013, 05:41:29 PM
 #1004

Per FinCEN:


Users of Virtual Currency

            A user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations.8 Such activity, in and of itself, does not fit within the definition of "money transmission services" and therefore is not subject to FinCEN's registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.9


http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

Yes, I am saying exactly what you think I am saying.  Individual USERS of virtual currency are not regulated.

I don't know the specifics of Virginia law, but Tangible Cryptography seems to have competent legal counsel advising them on these issues.

If I were a betting man I would bet that lawyers said "you had better register as a money transmitter" and D&T said "naw, I like the money I'm making and that would cost millions".  My quick analysis of their flagrant abuse of money transmitter laws is detailed here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167570.msg2267622#msg2267622



Money sent as part of a purchase or sale is not considered money transmission under federal regulations.

While that may be true, D&T is on BOTH sides of the equation as I clearly demonstrate in the link.

You exchanged virtual currency for real currency.  You did so for profit.  You did so regularly.  You are by FinCEN logic an "exchanger".


Facts or it didn't happen.  Stop with the FUD.  You are acting like a scared cat backed into the corner.
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May 25, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
 #1005

If I were a betting man I would bet that lawyers said "you had better register as a money transmitter" and D&T said "naw, I like the money I'm making and that would cost millions".

My understanding is that lawyers advised that, and that was not D&T's response.  While Tangible Cryptography is arguably not a money transmitter, they have registered anyway out of an abundance of caution.


Money sent as part of a purchase or sale is not considered money transmission under federal regulations. 

While that may be true, D&T is on BOTH sides of the equation as I clearly demonstrate in the link.

What difference does it make?  They are allowed to both buy and sell.
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May 25, 2013, 05:58:59 PM
 #1006

What difference does it make?  They are allowed to both buy and sell.

NO they are not, see what happened to Liberty Reserve here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167570.msg2267622#msg2267622
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May 25, 2013, 06:41:22 PM
 #1007

NO they are not, see what happened to Liberty Reserve here:

That's a rather different situation as LR was dollars in, dollars out, and more importantly to third parties.  That activity does arguably fall under money transmitter laws.
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May 25, 2013, 06:43:07 PM
 #1008

That's a rather different situation as LR was dollars in, dollars out, and more importantly to third parties.  That activity does arguably fall under money transmitter laws.

Per my post TC is doing the EXACT same thing.
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May 25, 2013, 06:47:01 PM
 #1009

Federal law does NOT regulate the individual buying and selling of bitcoin.  It's clear that you don't know the law, I agree.

Look of the definition of Sole Proprietor in ANY state.

To your further snotty comment, perhaps you should actually read my posts.  I call out scammers regularly.  In this case I'm warning the world of the dangers of dealing with non-licensed money transmitters like yourself.  I stated publicly that ALL non-licensed entities like your will soon be shut down... seeking that post now...


In my search I came across this EXCITING NEWS:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214056.0

Look, somebody who actually follows the law KUDO'S BITINSTANT!



Kudos to Bitinstant?  You must be joking.  You realize that they are effectively a ponzi scheme, correct?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128314.1060 - Their 352 page "support" thread detailing massive delays that has only calmed down because they started telling people that they must deal with the company via email in order to receive any assistance at all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128314.msg2228559#msg2228559 - Something I found, they are actually purposely scrambling API client fields so that any user of the API would have every transaction infinitely delayed while they "hold" the money (pay this money out to other unfunded transactions, because they have a massive hole in their books).  I was told that this issue had been forwarded to Gareth.  No response, no fix after almost a week (because they are doing it on purpose).

So don't come in here and try to defame legitimate companies in favor of those giving Bitcoin a bad name with your jailhouse lawyer nonsense.  FC4BTC, like you, buys Bitcoins.  Unlike you, they have lawyers that have given them the green light.  You actually posted in here saying 'If I were a betting man I would bet that lawyers said "you had better register as a money transmitter" and D&T said "naw, I like the money I'm making and that would cost millions".'.  I'm sorry, but your guesses about the interactions between a lawyer and a private company that you have nothing to do with are not a basis for argument.

You are trying to steal business from a company that is undoubtedly infinitely more successful than you.  You want to make money in arbitrage, but there are much easier ways to do so than spamming people via PM asking if they want to sell you BTC.  If I were a betting man, I would bet that you have spammed via PM every single person that has posted in this thread saying that they have completed a transaction with FC4BTC, asking if they want to sell to you - based at least in part on your dubious legal theories.  Try to scare their customers, and get them to sell to you.  Nice strategy, but based on the level of desperation I see in your posts, I'm guessing that it isn't working especially well.
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May 25, 2013, 06:57:03 PM
 #1010

That's the first I've seen such.  My "kudo's to you" was ONLY regarding their licenses.
Bitco
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May 25, 2013, 06:57:59 PM
 #1011

That's a rather different situation as LR was dollars in, dollars out, and more importantly to third parties.  That activity does arguably fall under money transmitter laws.

Per my post TC is doing the EXACT same thing.


No, TC is doing something quite different.  With Liberty Reserve, dollars were sent from one party to another, while in the possession of Liberty Reserve.  Tangible Cryptography does not do this.

Tangible Cryptography exchanges bitcoins for dollars and vice versa, but does not make payments to third parties.  If you trade with Tangible Cryptography, and then sometime later you send dollars or bitcoins to a third party, your dealings with that party are entirely your responsibility and TC has no part in that transaction.
TangibleCryptography
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May 25, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
 #1012

Back on topic. 

We are out of funds on all payment options.  All existing purchases have been paid.  If you believe that isn't the case shoot me an email at info@tangiblecryptography.com
None of our funding accounts post deposits on weekends or banking holidays.  This means we will not have more funds until Tuesday 05/28.  Have a happy long weekend everyone no need to madly hit F5 all weekend long.  We will have minimal support available this weekend but that shouldn't present a problem.

TheButterZone
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May 25, 2013, 10:31:46 PM
 #1013

Is there no thread Viceroy deems unfit to CRAP ALL OVER?


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Viceroy
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May 25, 2013, 10:32:48 PM
 #1014

I don't know, is anyone running a licensed business around here?  And if that is me, it should be a blunt... not a cigar.  I gave up tobacco.
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May 28, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
 #1015

Would it be possible to remove my name and address from your records after conducting a transaction with you?
Sorry if you already answered, maybe just link to the post where it is discussed.

Edit: Just to clarify, are there any reputable services that don't retain records and/or turn them over to the US for sending me USD for my BTC? Maybe like a Canadian or Mexican company?
Please PM me links instead of spamming this thread, I need cash but don't want to support the US welfare/warfare state directly.

The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with.
TangibleCryptography
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May 28, 2013, 04:42:56 PM
 #1016

Would it be possible to remove my name and address from your records after conducting a transaction with you?
Sorry if you already answered, maybe just link to the post where it is discussed.

No.  Any legitimate business is required to maintain records if for nothing more than internal accounting.  We pay taxes on our profits and the "proof" on our profitability comes from accurate books.  No company can both retain accurate books and delete records.  On advice of counsel we retain records of all transactions for five years.
TangibleCryptography
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May 28, 2013, 04:57:50 PM
 #1017

Update:
Check & PayPal funds available.
Still waiting on Dwolla.
TangibleCryptography
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May 28, 2013, 07:30:24 PM
 #1018

Hi, on your site homepage  , Paypal fee are annonced at 1%
++++
PayPal

Minimum Sale: $20
Maximum Sale: $6,000
Processing Fee: 1% of sale amount

++++


...but in fact it's 2%...

Sorry about that.  Fixed.
LouReed
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May 28, 2013, 08:09:54 PM
 #1019

NM, payment received!

Thanks!
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May 28, 2013, 10:32:10 PM
 #1020

Paypal Funds are dry again.

From what State (or Country) are the Company Checks mailed from?
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