ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[hdbuck]

Like I already said, we're entering a more saturated market now - in comparison to last year. The competition is a lot stronger now and has good chips.

saturated? besides spondoolies that may be doing ok (yet there is no comparison in term of quantity, nor in business model), i dont see a single ASIC manufacturer that offer stable, affordable and instock products. bitmain's S2 are a total disaster, avalon i dont even talk about em, bitfury seems to be on the go now too but nothing really came out anyway etc etc.. for the last year, the ASIC market has been ruined and undermined by scammy commercial practices and chip design amateurism with all of them wanting to produce 28nm chips straight on & at all cost. AM is here to change that.

sure current btc bull market is quite worrying, but FC mentioned OTC channels in HK. plus if bitcoin price rise, chips price to mine them will follow too.

Bitfury just got a massive cash infusion and they're quite talented in doing effective designs in low-nm architectures. I really do think we shouldn't underestimate Spondoolies. They seem to know what they're doing and their next generation could be quite powerful.

OTC channels are a great solution! They won't offer a different price, though. I'm just worried that the price of the chips won't be adjusted as fast as the BTC price, additionally money needs time to trickle in and be converted. A month is an eternity in Bitcoin bull/bubble-world.

sure but bear in mind that not only AM will be stressed by that factor. all ASIC manufacturers will have to deal with it. and so far the only one that is already releasing new working chips is AM. not bitfury, nor spondo's nor no one. they're just not even in mass production phase. AM is.

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[vortex1878]

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

[minerpumpkin]

Now I know it is not my bad English. ^^

I'll give it a last try with a bold example:
Somebody is offering you chips for 1$/G. He says each chip performs 1Gh/s (although the official rating is different).
At 1 Gh/s the chip consumes 10 Watts. But the most efficient (and rated) rate for the chip is 0.5Gh/s as it is only consuming 2 Watts then. So you might want to run the chips at the rated 0.5Gh/s only. Hence, you actually pay 2$/G.

Ah okay, so you're interested in the currently advertised rated performance of the chips? Yes, that isn't entirely clear. But even in April FC already stated "assuming each chip has 10GH/s", like you already mentioned. They could indeed have a minor influence. Effectively an example why the January plans seem outdated.

[hdbuck]

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that sh*t straight.

[minerpumpkin]

Like I already said, we're entering a more saturated market now - in comparison to last year. The competition is a lot stronger now and has good chips.

saturated? besides spondoolies that may be doing ok (yet there is no comparison in term of quantity, nor in business model), i dont see a single ASIC manufacturer that offer stable, affordable and instock products. bitmain's S2 are a total disaster, avalon i dont even talk about em, bitfury seems to be on the go now too but nothing really came out anyway etc etc.. for the last year, the ASIC market has been ruined and undermined by scammy commercial practices and chip design amateurism with all of them wanting to produce 28nm chips straight on & at all cost. AM is here to change that.

sure current btc bull market is quite worrying, but FC mentioned OTC channels in HK. plus if bitcoin price rise, chips price to mine them will follow too.

Bitfury just got a massive cash infusion and they're quite talented in doing effective designs in low-nm architectures. I really do think we shouldn't underestimate Spondoolies. They seem to know what they're doing and their next generation could be quite powerful.

OTC channels are a great solution! They won't offer a different price, though. I'm just worried that the price of the chips won't be adjusted as fast as the BTC price, additionally money needs time to trickle in and be converted. A month is an eternity in Bitcoin bull/bubble-world.

sure but bear in mind that not only AM will be stressed by that factor. all ASIC manufacturers will have to deal with it. and so far the only one that is already releasing new working chips is AM. not bitfury, nor spondo's nor no one. they're just not even in mass production phase. AM is.

Yeah but in our case this cuts the dividends. Spondoolies doesn't care since they're effectively operating in FIAT. (On a side-note: AM itself doesn't care either, it makes a lot of sense to conduct the core operation using USD)

[minerpumpkin]

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that shit straight.

Again, don't overestimate gen 3.1 there is no new chip design (mask set) but rather an increased die size or similar, in order to get rid of the heat better and to stabilise the chip. This shouldn't take any time at all. I also believe that the chips at XBTec are gen 3.1 since they use the new dimensions (8x8mm)

[vortex1878]

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that sh*t straight.

True. We know NOTHING actually. So also we do not know if advertising improved specs (equals more info to competitors) would generate more customers or we already do not need more customers as future batches are already in LoI phase or similar.

[vortex1878]

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that shit straight.

Again, don't overestimate gen 3.1 there is no new chip design (mask set) but rather an increased die size or similar, in order to get rid of the heat better and to stabilise the chip. This shouldn't take any time at all. I also believe that the chips at XBTec are gen 3.1 since they use the new dimensions (8x8mm)

Agreed, this will not take much time but the effect is unknown. Apparently the generation used by XBTec is more efficient. Could be due to 3.1 improvements, PCB improvements or just less loss on the overall device-level due to lower overheads because of more chips per device and less supporting components (I am not an engineer, excuse my wording).

[ujka]

Why are you guys so fast in dismising self-mining?
20Ph mentioned as possible with franchising + AM farms, could mine around 90'000 btc before next reward halving:
http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=10455720138&dcosts=0&diff_mincrease=15&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=20000000000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=623.06&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0&calcweeks=60&dleadtime=3&action=calc

[Anotheranonlol]

When it comes to the nitty gritty internals of Asicminer we are like Jon Snuh  
we know nothing

[kaerf]

So about 0.01 btc per share is probably about the most total dividend one could possibly expect for now, until gen 4.

you forgot about selfmining and franchisees.

If we assume that selling chips is the most profitable and fast(!) way to go, every KH/s that goes into self-mining and franchising, is a KH/s sold for less. i.e. we'd be off worse.

This all depends on how much and how fast FC can produce self-mining machines.

In my (crazy) estimates, 1GH can still make $1-$2 (accounting for power,fees , and more). If FC can produce machines for less than $0.65/GH ($1 - $0.35), then it's better to self mine....unless he has problems with deploying that much power. Personally, I'd like to see more self mining, but if I were FC I'd also be wary of the additional liability of self mining (sourcing power/space thus making the business much less nimble).

[jimmothy]

unless he has problems with deploying that much power.

I do believe this is a limiting factor. AM is only working with 1MW and it's not particularly cheap electricity ($0.15/kwh for the immersion DC iirc).

Personally, I'd like to see more self mining, but if I were FC I'd also be wary of the additional liability of self mining (sourcing power/space thus making the business much less nimble).

I agree. Although I believe FC knows what he is doing and will do whatever is most profitable, I'd still like to see some expansion on the solomining operation.

It would be nice if we could get a ~20Mw DC with cheap electricity (<$0.05/kwh) to rival bitfuries giant farm which will be running soon.

[Anotheranonlol]

unless he has problems with deploying that much power.

I do believe this is a limiting factor. AM is only working with 1MW and it's not particularly cheap electricity ($0.15/kwh for the immersion DC iirc).

Personally, I'd like to see more self mining, but if I were FC I'd also be wary of the additional liability of self mining (sourcing power/space thus making the business much less nimble).

I agree. Although I believe FC knows what he is doing and will do whatever is most profitable, I'd still like to see some expansion on the solomining operation.

It would be nice if we could get a ~20Mw DC with cheap electricity (<$0.05/kwh) to rival bitfuries giant farm which will be running soon.

Most of chinese farms have been discussing plant subsidy in mainland then ultimately moving to mongolia. not now but in future
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

[jimmothy]

AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

What exactly does this mean?

Are you talking about PUE or w/gh?

Also source?

[aahzmundus]

Most of chinese farms have been discussing plant subsidy in mainland then ultimately moving to mongolia. not now but in future
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

Does bitfury beat AM's existing farm?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4  Yes, that is a current AM mining farm...

[spartan82]

Most of chinese farms have been discussing plant subsidy in mainland then ultimately moving to mongolia. not now but in future
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

Does bitfury beat AM's existing farm?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4  Yes, that is a current AM mining farm...

What a beautiful sight that is lol I just want one now. Here's hoping AM can get to solo mining with 3PH in time to make a sizable difference

[Anotheranonlol]

AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

What exactly does this mean?

Are you talking about PUE or w/gh?

Also source?

Heat recovery efficiency
BitFury using oil immersion too, and 20MW plant, larger than KNC
when gen3 chips come in AM can have a little trouble on their hands

Does bitfury beat AM's existing farm?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4  Yes, that is a current AM mining farm...

AM farm certainly look sexy, but it's not fashion contest

here is more like bitfury's DC

[Chris_Sabian]

Speaking of BitFury: http://dcmagnates.com/bitfury-secures-20m-in-funding-half-from-gcf/

[Anotheranonlol]

Speaking of BitFury: http://dcmagnates.com/bitfury-secures-20m-in-funding-half-from-gcf/

and they are seeking to acquire other bitcoin mining companies , maybe shareholders here can cross fingers for a buyout

[jimmothy]

Speaking of BitFury: http://dcmagnates.com/bitfury-secures-20m-in-funding-half-from-gcf/

and they are seeking to acquire other bitcoin mining companies , maybe shareholders here can cross fingers for a buyout

Please share your sources.

That seems like a bad strategy. What would they have to gain from buyouts?