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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3899743 times)
Guy Corem
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May 23, 2014, 06:45:46 PM
Last edit: May 23, 2014, 06:58:00 PM by Spondoolies-Tech
 #19481

AM is not the latest crap in bitcoin world.  Wink



aaaactually, i beg to differ.

AM - 0.554 J/Gh at 11.52 Gh/s.
Spondoolies - 0.58 J/Gh at 7.5 Gh/s.



Not my thread, but I need to set the record straight.
Our ASICs can achieve above 10 GHs. It was just one corner measurement.
At the end, it's system efficiency. I saw three examples of systems based on AM3 in the wild, all of them above 1.1 W/GHs.
Out system is about 0.85 W/GHs at full power.
We've taped out our 2nd gen ASIC, and we'll be below 0.45 W/GHs at the system level in two months.

AM3 can't compete on 28nm, since it's "custom design", which means it will take at least 6 months to produce 28nm. Well in time for our 3rd gen.
Finally, we can compete on the price as well.

That's not setting the record straight at all. How much power did your ASIC consume when running at over 10 GH/s?

Sigh.

You quote a number shown in one measurement. There is no one ASIC
Every ASIC behaves differently, based on it's place on the production curve. On top of that, there is cooling.
We can pick a much better corner ASIC, cool it and do a much better measurement. You need to compare apples to apples and this is not the case.

At the end, all that is matter is system efficiency at the wall. It averages the ASICs, PSU and DC2DC design (if you use one).

I'll stop posting here now.

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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May 23, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
 #19482

...

I'll stop posting here now.

Thanks for the info, sorry for the rude tons.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
michaelGedi
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May 23, 2014, 06:49:23 PM
 #19483

Hey guys sorry if this question's been answered recently but is anyone else noticed that it's taking a long time to transfer direct shares from one address to another?  Sent a request more than a week ago and haven't heard anything.

I've been out of the loop for a while so maybe there's an automated way to do this finally?

Lastly, I have a link to a super old google doc that shows the list of current investors but it hasn't been updated in a year.  Is there a new one?

Thanks!


recent transfer request of mine took less than 48 hours, from "direct" to havelock, about a week ago

TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
bitsalame
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May 23, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
Last edit: May 23, 2014, 07:21:13 PM by bitsalame
 #19484

Spoondoolies hardware might be marginally better, but the business model is different from AM.
We shouldn't really be scared of other competitors out there, those playing a price war or only pursuing a more efficient product are destined to fail in the long run. The real game is owning the market, and for that there are many more tricks in the bag to accomplish so.
In fact AM is way ahead of the game since day one, first as a public mining farm, secondly pushing immersion cooling, thirdly as a franchise, foruthly as a chip supplier with key partnerships. It is this vision what makes AM an outstanding contender, and it is way more threatening when you realize how well capitalized is this company to do whatever they want.

It is key for a CEO to know when to hold his horses and when to pivot its business model, and that is something that Friedcat seems to be quite competent at its assessment.
I don't know if you guys realized that Friedcat is playing an asymmetric warfare here, not only decentralized mining farms with its franchises, but also decentralized the production of hardware by getting solid partnerships such as Rockminer's.
AM goal seems to be to eventually become the OEM of asic miners.

It is not Spoondolies vs. AM.
It is Spondoolies against all AM partners out there inundating the market with AM hardware.
So what if Friedcat ends up partnering up with more hardware manufacturers, it will be funny to see how Bitfury, AntMiner, Spoondolies, BFL perform fighting against a constellation of AM partners.
Especially if the ratio ends up favoring towards the AM gang... And we might already be getting there.
AM is in a completely different league.

The battle of the hashrates is insignificant against the war of owning the marketshare.
Geeks can't survive it unless you have a clear business sense.

PS: those mocking us regarding to "imaginary dividends". Let me tell you that AM ROI was beyond 1000% IN BITCOINS, so multiply that by the 200% appreciation of the bitcoin price during that period, and that's only in dividends. Anything extra I might get now, it is just money falling from the skies for me.
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May 23, 2014, 07:11:05 PM
 #19485

AM is not the latest crap in bitcoin world.  Wink



aaaactually, i beg to differ.

AM - 0.554 J/Gh at 11.52 Gh/s.
Spondoolies - 0.58 J/Gh at 7.5 Gh/s.



Not my thread, but I need to set the record straight.
Our ASICs can achieve above 10 GHs. It was just one corner measurement.
At the end, it's system efficiency. I saw three examples of systems based on AM3 in the wild, all of them above 1.1 W/GHs.
Out system is about 0.85 W/GHs at full power.
We've taped out our 2nd gen ASIC, and we'll be below 0.45 W/GHs at the system level in two months.

AM3 can't compete on 28nm, since it's "custom design", which means it will take at least 6 months to produce 28nm. Well in time for our 3rd gen.
Finally, we can compete on the price as well.

That's not setting the record straight at all. How much power did your ASIC consume when running at over 10 GH/s?

Sigh.

You quote a number shown in one measurement. There is no one ASIC
Every ASIC behaves differently, based on it's place on the production curve. On top of that, there is cooling.
We can pick a much better corner ASIC, cool it and do a much better measurement. You need to compare apples to apples and this is not the case.

At the end, all that is matter is system efficiency at the wall. It average the ASICs, PSU and DC2DC design (if you use one).

I'll stop posting here now.

You give appearance of knowing more about the BE200 than we have available to us when making comparisons. All calculated performance thus far is derived from physical equipment where manufacturers elect to drive their ASICs based on component cost and the market tolerance for inefficiencies at present. Really doesn't address power optimization which Spoondoolies appears to have not also made paramount in system design
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May 23, 2014, 07:14:09 PM
 #19486

Sigh.

You quote a number shown in one measurement. There is no one ASIC
Every ASIC behaves differently, based on it's place on the production curve. On top of that, there is cooling.
We can pick a much better corner ASIC, cool it and do a much better measurement.

Your website claims that the ASIC does 7.5 Gh/s using 0.63V and consumes 0.58 J/Gh.
Rockxie claimed that AM's ASIC does 11.52 GH/s using 0.72V and consumes 0.554 J/Gh.

Face the facts, your ASIC just isn't as good as AM's.

You need to compare apples to apples and this is not the case.

At the end, all that is matter is system efficiency at the wall. It average the ASICs, PSU and DC2DC design (if you use one).

I'll stop posting here now.

AM doesn't sell mining systems though, they sell chips. An apples to apples comparison is therefore an ASIC to ASIC comparison and AM's comes out on top.
minerpumpkin
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May 23, 2014, 07:20:18 PM
 #19487

Not my thread, but I need to set the record straight.
Our ASICs can achieve above 10 GHs. It was just one corner measurement.
At the end, it's system efficiency. I saw three examples of systems based on AM3 in the wild, all of them above 1.1 W/GHs.
Out system is about 0.85 W/GHs at full power.
We've taped out our 2nd gen ASIC, and we'll be below 0.45 W/GHs at the system level in two months.

AM3 can't compete on 28nm, since it's "custom design", which means it will take at least 6 months to produce 28nm. Well in time for our 3rd gen.
Finally, we can compete on the price as well.

Can you guys imagine FC showing up in this guy's thread and commenting about how they are doomed?

Laughing way too hard about this right now!  Cheesy

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
necro_nemesis
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May 23, 2014, 07:27:38 PM
 #19488

Not my thread, but I need to set the record straight.
Our ASICs can achieve above 10 GHs. It was just one corner measurement.
At the end, it's system efficiency. I saw three examples of systems based on AM3 in the wild, all of them above 1.1 W/GHs.
Out system is about 0.85 W/GHs at full power.
We've taped out our 2nd gen ASIC, and we'll be below 0.45 W/GHs at the system level in two months.

AM3 can't compete on 28nm, since it's "custom design", which means it will take at least 6 months to produce 28nm. Well in time for our 3rd gen.
Finally, we can compete on the price as well.

Can you guys imagine FC showing up in this guy's thread and commenting about how they are doomed?

Laughing way too hard about this right now!  Cheesy

He should have the courtesy to also visit the various Gen3 system builders and let them know too.
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May 23, 2014, 07:38:03 PM
 #19489

Rockxie claimed that AM's ASIC does 11.52 GH/s using 0.72V and consumes 0.554 J/Gh.

http://blog.rockminer.com/#!/2014/04/13/Testing_Results_Of_BE200.md

You are giving too much credit to a single ASIC test board measurement, which was probably done to ease the pressure from the shareholders. The chip can have 0.1J/Gh in a test environment, but as a miner I care about how much power is my miner sucking from the power outlet and it seems that all AM gen3 miners need at least 1.1W/GH (~1.1J/Gh/s to be correct). My Oct/Nov Jupiters are having that power consumption and I mined a lot of coins up until now. Even I know now that chips can be slow-slow, fast-fast etc and I'm not a tech guy. It's obvious that the average chips perform much worse than what was shown more than 1 month ago. Even the blog post has "Tips:this result is not very accurate just for reference." at the end so I wouldn't take that as granted.

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May 23, 2014, 07:39:48 PM
 #19490

AM is not the latest crap in bitcoin world.  Wink



aaaactually, i beg to differ.

AM - 0.554 J/Gh at 11.52 Gh/s.
Spondoolies - 0.58 J/Gh at 7.5 Gh/s.



Not my thread, but I need to set the record straight.
Our ASICs can achieve above 10 GHs. It was just one corner measurement.
At the end, it's system efficiency. I saw three examples of systems based on AM3 in the wild, all of them above 1.1 W/GHs.
Out system is about 0.85 W/GHs at full power.
We've taped out our 2nd gen ASIC, and we'll be below 0.45 W/GHs at the system level in two months.

AM3 can't compete on 28nm, since it's "custom design", which means it will take at least 6 months to produce 28nm. Well in time for our 3rd gen.
Finally, we can compete on the price as well.

Can you guys imagine FC showing up in this guy's thread and commenting about how they are doomed?


Friedcat won't.  He a man of few words as results matter, not rhetoric.
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May 23, 2014, 08:09:53 PM
 #19491

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.
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May 23, 2014, 08:27:25 PM
 #19492

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

First of all asicminer isn't shipping anything. They are selling chips to third-party. Secondly I still haven't seen any of these miners in the wild while my SP10 miner is working hard to make me happy. Thirdly I'm hashing with 1.5Th/s in a small 1.25U box. How much space/cables/PSU/etc is needed for asicminer machines to reach 1.5Th/s?(not to mention the power consumption)

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May 23, 2014, 08:39:18 PM
 #19493

As you say, ASICMINER isn't selling mining machines directly. Most of us are invested in ASICMINER because we want in on the profits from chip sales and franchising. The mining income at this point is going to be dwarfed by the income from those other two sources, and that's fine by me. Comparing Spondoolies and ASICMINER seems like an apples-and-oranges comparison to me.
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May 23, 2014, 08:39:51 PM
 #19494

Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

First of all asicminer isn't shipping anything. They are selling chips to third-party. Secondly I still haven't seen any of these miners in the wild while my SP10 miner is working hard to make me happy. Thirdly I'm hashing with 1.5Th/s in a small 1.25U box. How much space/cables/PSU/etc is needed for asicminer machines to reach 1.5Th/s?(not to mention the power consumption)

You do realize the 1.25u case is a gimmick? It is impossible to cool 1kw/1u so you need to spread them out. That means both the 1.25u sp10's and the (3u?) hashratio machines both take up the same space.

But for those wanting a machine that sounds like a chainsaw, SP10 wins hands down.
bkminer
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May 23, 2014, 08:50:28 PM
 #19495

My question is, from my reading if the design is good a fully custom chip outperforms standard cell chips. If that's wrong why would anyone do full custom design?
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May 23, 2014, 08:57:05 PM
 #19496

As you say, ASICMINER isn't selling mining machines directly. Most of us are invested in ASICMINER because we want in on the profits from chip sales and franchising. The mining income at this point is going to be dwarfed by the income from those other two sources, and that's fine by me. Comparing Spondoolies and ASICMINER seems like an apples-and-oranges comparison to me.

Yes franchising underpreforming ASICs is the right way to profit from chip sales.



Since spondoolies + fanboys are all here I thought I'd ask, have any of you even come close to ROI on your $4/gh miners?

Must be painful to see asicminer machines shipping now as low as $1/gh especially if you paid $1/gh to preorder the sp30 which will be delivered in months.

First of all asicminer isn't shipping anything. They are selling chips to third-party. Secondly I still haven't seen any of these miners in the wild while my SP10 miner is working hard to make me happy. Thirdly I'm hashing with 1.5Th/s in a small 1.25U box. How much space/cables/PSU/etc is needed for asicminer machines to reach 1.5Th/s?(not to mention the power consumption)

You do realize the 1.25u case is a gimmick? It is impossible to cool 1kw/1u so you need to spread them out. That means both the 1.25u sp10's and the (3u?) hashratio machines both take up the same space.

But for those wanting a machine that sounds like a chainsaw, SP10 wins hands down.

Gimmick for what? Here is a picture with 4 stacked with no problem(thank you tzortz):


3U is the final case for the hashratio's miners? Show me a video of one running in a miner's farm.

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Guy Corem
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May 23, 2014, 08:57:11 PM
 #19497

My question is, from my reading if the design is good a fully custom chip outperforms standard cell chips. If that's wrong why would anyone do full custom design?

I'm not feeling comfortable posting here. It's a legit question, so I'll answer. Please continue further discussion via PM

Sure, fully custom chip done correctly will outperform standard cells chips. The shining example is BitFury rev2 55nm UMC ASIC
To get a killer ASIC, you need to have better SHA256 implementation, coupled with custom design and some more elements I won't discuss.
Such a killer ASIC could achieve 0.1 W/GHs and sub 0.05 $/GHs on 28nm process

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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May 23, 2014, 09:09:25 PM
 #19498

Gimmick for what? Here is a picture with 4 stacked with no problem(thank you tzortz):


3U is the final case for the hashratio's miners? Show me a video of one running in a miner's farm.


I am talking more about mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical. It really shouldn't matter if you're mining at home since you have the space and not enough heat to matter.

I don't have a video since these are brand new but heres a pic:

Also have no idea how big they are. 3u is just my guess.

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May 23, 2014, 09:16:01 PM
 #19499

I wish Spoondoolies would also go public so I can have some shares during the AM takeover.  Grin
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May 23, 2014, 09:25:41 PM
 #19500


I am talking more about mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical. It really shouldn't matter if you're mining at home since you have the space and not enough heat to matter.

I don't have a video since these are brand new but heres a pic:

Also have no idea how big they are. 3u is just my guess.


So for mass deployment/rack storage where space is critical you are saying that 3U? is much better than 1.25U? There is a contradiction in that statement.

When someone tells you that SP-Tech has better power consumption you are bragging about AM's chip being faster. When someone tells you that SP-Tech has better miner density you are bragging about price. Always derailing from the subject. It seems that you are trying so hard to compare SP10 miners which are available since March with AM miners which were just released (well not really because they have chips in hands for almost 2 months now) and which don't seem to exist out in the miners hands.

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