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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3729055 times)
kano
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September 27, 2012, 12:54:17 AM
 #581

Friedcat: Have you guys thought about mining software yet ? Will you develop that in-house or get supported by CGMiner for instance ?

Don't know if that part can be started before the actual product is in your hands ? That will also take time I assume
We will make/customize our own version at first when the PCB design is finalized. After we publish the PCB interface to the community, and people make better open source software than ours, we will possibly switch.
Hmm - sounds just like BFL - before BFL changed their mind and said they would support software development of their ASIC.
Why am I not surprised? Tongue

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September 27, 2012, 01:09:21 AM
 #582

yeah, why waste time on making your own mining software client, the available ones are good (probably better) enough...

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September 27, 2012, 04:32:27 AM
 #583

Friedcat: Have you guys thought about mining software yet ? Will you develop that in-house or get supported by CGMiner for instance ?

Don't know if that part can be started before the actual product is in your hands ? That will also take time I assume
We will make/customize our own version at first when the PCB design is finalized. After we publish the PCB interface to the community, and people make better open source software than ours, we will possibly switch.
Hmm - sounds just like BFL - before BFL changed their mind and said they would support software development of their ASIC.
Why am I not surprised? Tongue
Sorry for my bad communication of giving people the impression that we claim to write the software from scratch.

What in my mind was the scenario of our own deployment of our first batch of THashes when I replied the question. The software needs to be modified to adapt our hardware protocol and optimized for larger size of works from the network. This part would first be done with ourselves because it allows quicker iteration.

Since we don't sell our boards until later batches, and mere specification is not enough for other people to support our products with their software, we (Bitfountain side) talked about giving a small number of sample boards to the community for evaluation and development before we accept any orders. The final plan should be discussed among board members and approved by shareholders.

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September 28, 2012, 02:33:13 PM
 #584

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?
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September 28, 2012, 02:40:29 PM
 #585

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?


Glbse is both the broker and the exchange. 
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.

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September 28, 2012, 02:58:26 PM
 #586

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?


Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.  
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.
The problem though is that passthroughs enhance the risk of default (adding more links to the chain).

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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September 28, 2012, 03:00:59 PM
 #587

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?


Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.  
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.
The problem though is that passthroughs enhance the risk of default (adding more links to the chain).

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...


You are pretty much at the mercy of glbse. Just pray friedcat doesnt annoy Nefario for some reason  Smiley

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September 28, 2012, 03:12:36 PM
 #588

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...
You are pretty much at the mercy of glbse. Just pray friedcat doesnt annoy Nefario for some reason  Smiley

Actually, you could sign a contract with bitfountain and hold the signed text instead of shares on GLBSE, as Jutarul said. This only works if you have enough shares that would make it worth friedcat's time. As long as the company continues to be listed and you have a direct channel to the issuer, there should be a way to find a solution. For instance, if ASICMINER did decide to get listed on cryptostocks as well, you could transfer your shares this way.
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October 01, 2012, 03:24:01 PM
 #589

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks
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October 01, 2012, 04:40:57 PM
 #590

1 J/GH = 1 Ws/GH = 1 W/(GH/s)
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October 01, 2012, 05:02:24 PM
 #591

1 J/GH = 1 Ws/GH = 1 W/(GH/s)

Most important math ever.

niko
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October 01, 2012, 10:39:34 PM
 #592

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks
One Joule worth of energy is equivalent to one Watt of power sustained over one second. You do the math. Hint: Ghash vs. Ghash/s.The only reason Friedcat provided Joules per Gigahash and not "Wattage per GH" is that he understands physics.

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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October 02, 2012, 06:50:21 AM
 #593

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks
Our spec is 4.2 (Watt / (GHash / s)). Because 1 Watt = 1 Joule / s, it equals to 4.2 Joule / GHash.

We know that:

1 kWh = 3,600,000 Joule

1 GHash = 50 / (4 * difficulty) BTC [before block reward halving] or 25 / (4 * difficulty) [after block reward halving] BTC

Suppose the price of electricity per kWh is pe, and the price of BTC is pb, the difficulty when we are un-profitable any more is d, we have:

4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 50 / (4 * d) [before block reward halving]
or
4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 25 / (4 * d) [after block reward halving]

therefore:

d = (3,600,000 * pb * 50) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [before block reward halving]
or
d = (3,600,000 * pb * 25) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [after block reward halving]

First we could fill in the (pe) field [0.1$ in China]. Then we could speculate on the average price of Bitcoin during the whole operating time and fill in the (pb) field to get the average difficulty cap, below which the miners could have non-negative margin profits if they consider electricity cost to be their only margin cost.

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October 02, 2012, 08:37:10 AM
 #594

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks
Our spec is 4.2 (Watt / (GHash / s)). Because 1 Watt = 1 Joule / s, it equals to 4.2 Joule / GHash.

We know that:

1 kWh = 3,600,000 Joule

1 GHash = 50 / (4 * difficulty) BTC [before block reward halving] or 25 / (4 * difficulty) [after block reward halving] BTC

Suppose the price of electricity per kWh is pe, and the price of BTC is pb, the difficulty when we are un-profitable any more is d, we have:

4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 50 / (4 * d) [before block reward halving]
or
4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 25 / (4 * d) [after block reward halving]

therefore:

d = (3,600,000 * pb * 50) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [before block reward halving]
or
d = (3,600,000 * pb * 25) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [after block reward halving]

First we could fill in the (pe) field [0.1$ in China]. Then we could speculate on the average price of Bitcoin during the whole operating time and fill in the (pb) field to get the average difficulty cap, below which the miners could have non-negative margin profits if they consider electricity cost to be their only margin cost.

Thanks for your (more than) comprehensive answer !
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October 02, 2012, 12:04:37 PM
 #595

1 GHash = 50 / (4 * difficulty) BTC [before block reward halving] /.../ BTC

You may be wondering, where does the number 4 come from? Actually, a more accurate number of the income from 1GH/s is 50/(4.295 *difficulty) BTC/s.

4.295032833 being 10-9248/65535 see the wiki
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October 02, 2012, 07:41:56 PM
 #596

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?


Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.  
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.
The problem though is that passthroughs enhance the risk of default (adding more links to the chain).

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...

You are pretty much at the mercy of glbse. Just pray friedcat doesnt annoy Nefario for some reason  Smiley

Too bad, I cannot accept the risks involved with GLBSE.
I have decided to close my account there and that means unfortunately I have to sell all my shares in this project.
GLBSE and the people running it are too much of a liability at the moment.
nebulus
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October 02, 2012, 07:51:52 PM
 #597

Massive unload, thanks!  Cool

deeplink
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October 02, 2012, 07:55:03 PM
 #598

Massive unload, thanks!  Cool

Yep that was me, you're welcome.
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October 02, 2012, 07:57:11 PM
 #599

got anything else worth while?

Jutarul
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October 02, 2012, 08:58:24 PM
 #600

Too bad, I cannot accept the risks involved with GLBSE.
I have decided to close my account there and that means unfortunately I have to sell all my shares in this project.
GLBSE and the people running it are too much of a liability at the moment.
If you hold >1000 shares you may want to consider contacting friedcat for "direct shares".

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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