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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3802128 times)
lame.duck
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October 09, 2012, 07:10:01 PM
 #701

In that case we should get all the csv backups from the shareholders and someone has to do a timestamp analysis of the involved transactions. This way you can reconstruct a tree and identify false claims.

If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

How should this work? If someone has bought some A shares and later sold  some B and bought later some C shares again and would delete the line with (B) would the get how many shares? And i am not aware if there are/were GLBSE trade data avaiable on the net that could be used to fake CSV files. Or other than that, i someone  made his last backab after B. Given that B were smaller than C would it morally legit to delete the sell line to get at least A shares  instead the fewer A-B shares?

The result of such a puzzle would be that the data will be containing a lot of questionable data.
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Jutarul
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October 09, 2012, 07:56:44 PM
 #702

If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

How should this work? If someone has bought some A shares and later sold  some B and bought later some C shares again and would delete the line with (B) would the get how many shares? And i am not aware if there are/were GLBSE trade data avaiable on the net that could be used to fake CSV files. Or other than that, i someone  made his last backab after B. Given that B were smaller than C would it morally legit to delete the sell line to get at least A shares  instead the fewer A-B shares?

The result of such a puzzle would be that the data will be containing a lot of questionable data.
Yes. That's why you have to construct a tree. You assume that the ASICMINER csv file is accurate, then you have to traverse the tree down. Each transaction involves two parties, thus each sell has to correspond to a buy in another CSV file with the correct amount and timestamp. If a CSV record has been altered you should detect that by not being able to match the corresponding transaction with the remainder of the network. It's a hell of a job, but that's the most reliable thing you can do. If a certain branch clears without contradictions with the remainder of the tree, you have high confidence that the data is correct.

Let's only do that if GLBSE doesn't provide any means to resolve the claims. In the meantime, please make sure that you have a recent copy of your csv transaction file. Of course, there will be a lot of dispute for trades which were done a few days before GLBSE closed down. But if you have a sufficiently complete copy of the CSV file history you can work your way towards a reliable version of the shareholder database. May take a month though...

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
DutchBrat
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October 09, 2012, 08:01:17 PM
 #703

If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

How should this work? If someone has bought some A shares and later sold  some B and bought later some C shares again and would delete the line with (B) would the get how many shares? And i am not aware if there are/were GLBSE trade data avaiable on the net that could be used to fake CSV files. Or other than that, i someone  made his last backab after B. Given that B were smaller than C would it morally legit to delete the sell line to get at least A shares  instead the fewer A-B shares?

The result of such a puzzle would be that the data will be containing a lot of questionable data.
Yes. That's why you have to construct a tree. You assume that the ASICMINER csv file is accurate, then you have to traverse the tree down. Each transaction involves two parties, thus each sell has to correspond to a buy in another CSV file with the correct amount and timestamp. If a CSV record has been altered you should detect that by not being able to match the corresponding transaction with the remainder of the network. It's a hell of a job, but that's the most reliable thing you can do. If a certain branch clears without contradictions with the remainder of the tree, you have high confidence that the data is correct.

Let's only do that if GLBSE doesn't provide any means to resolve the claims. In the meantime, please make sure that you have a recent copy of your csv transaction file. Of course, there will be a lot of dispute for trades which were done a few days before GLBSE closed down. But if you have a sufficiently complete copy of the CSV file history you can work your way towards a reliable version of the shareholder database. May take a month though...

And if you dont have a csv file...

We cant log in anymore to download one....
Jutarul
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October 09, 2012, 08:17:55 PM
 #704

And if you dont have a csv file...
We cant log in anymore to download one....
Yes. Then you should at least submit your claimed amount and your user ID.
Anybody who does not have a csv file should keep that a secret. Otherwise people with CSV file could erase their corresponding entries, which complicates things.

I am not claiming that the procedure is perfect, but its better than nothing.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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October 09, 2012, 10:37:31 PM
 #705

And if you dont have a csv file...
We cant log in anymore to download one....
Yes. Then you should at least submit your claimed amount and your user ID.
Anybody who does not have a csv file should keep that a secret. Otherwise people with CSV file could erase their corresponding entries, which complicates things.

I am not claiming that the procedure is perfect, but its better than nothing.
To make things more interesting, users without their csv files may be unable to provide exact amounts. You'll be getting some approximate (even if honest) numbers, so matching values in the three will have to be fuzzy, not exact. So will be the outco e of this whole thing, unless GLBSE cooperates.

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Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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October 09, 2012, 10:40:36 PM
 #706

This is the complete trading and dividend history for GLBSE since the initiation of 2.0.

Trading History
Dividend History


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Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
Jutarul
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October 09, 2012, 10:51:43 PM
 #707

This is the complete trading and dividend history for GLBSE since the initiation of 2.0.

Trading History
Dividend History


Splendid, is there a way to check for authenticity?

The history seems to exclude direct account transfers...

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
SebastianJu
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October 09, 2012, 11:09:37 PM
 #708

Thats from the data from the websites right? I remember i downloaded all the pages of glbse some weeks ago too. Including all the graphs and so on. i can provide that data from 20120907-002940 utc+1.

Unfortunately you cant see the who traded with who. But at least you can see that trades happened. I backed it up with scrapbook. Let me know if that is of interest. But i think we should wait anyway until there IS a problem for sure.
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October 09, 2012, 11:20:48 PM
 #709

This is the complete trading and dividend history for GLBSE since the initiation of 2.0.

Trading History
Dividend History


Splendid, is there a way to check for authenticity?

The history seems to exclude direct account transfers...

Check the thread I linked to for some updates. Apparently this was based on Twitter feed which did not include IPO sales and direct transfers.

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LazyOtto
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October 09, 2012, 11:35:13 PM
 #710

On October 3 I copied all my ASICMINER activity into a spreadsheet.

For three of my buys there is a unique hit, single entry, for qty@price against that csv.

Assuming that the second column is a timestamp, it should be trivial to match all my buys against entries in the csv. Therefore, within reason, proving how many shares I've purchased.

I've never sold any. But I don't see any way to prove that with the info available/exposed to date.

--

But I'm just lucky to have copied my info before GLBSE shut down. I expect the vast quantity of share holders do not have such specific data.
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October 10, 2012, 02:21:06 AM
 #711

Therefore, within reason, proving how many shares I've purchased.

On second thought, no, there is not sufficient/reasonable proof here.

1) My 'spreadsheet' where I documented purchases means nothing. Anyone can create a spreadsheet containing records 'matching' lines in the csv.

2) The fact that the file date of that spreadsheet pre-dates the GLBSE melt down means nothing. The time-stamp on a file can readily be altered.
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October 10, 2012, 02:25:07 AM
 #712

will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P
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October 10, 2012, 02:48:51 AM
 #713

will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

Sure, why not? I provide my information whenever I use my credit card. The only catch is, I expect GLBSE to provide privacy policy outlining how they collect, use, and safeguard my personal information.

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keystroke
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October 10, 2012, 04:24:51 AM
 #714

will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

Sure, why not? I provide my information whenever I use my credit card. The only catch is, I expect GLBSE to provide privacy policy outlining how they collect, use, and safeguard my personal information.

Could there be any liability for purchasing unregulated securities? I couldn't imagine this but you never know these days....

"The difference between a castle and a prison is only a question of who holds the keys."
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October 10, 2012, 04:48:18 AM
 #715

will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

Sure, why not? I provide my information whenever I use my credit card. The only catch is, I expect GLBSE to provide privacy policy outlining how they collect, use, and safeguard my personal information.

Could there be any liability for purchasing unregulated securities? I couldn't imagine this but you never know these days....

I'm willing to take that risk. I haven't done anything wrong, and I am confident most courts would agree if it ever came to them deciding. Come on, with all the Second Life and whatnot, why would they care?  Even the whole AML story is bullshit because you cannot launder criminal proceeds using bitcoin. Anyone claiming you can have no idea about money laundering.  In fact, a good way to launder money is to have GLBSE shut down and database lost: then I can claim I bought this car not by selling crack but by trading assets there - but hey, the data has been lost, so you can't prove I didn't earn it by trading.

They're there, in their room.
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October 10, 2012, 06:04:49 AM
 #716

Daily Update

Till the GLBSE problem settles down, I will keep daily updates here:

We are getting ready for the AML materials. We won't be necessarily giving them out, but it does no harm to prepare them.

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October 10, 2012, 07:39:25 AM
 #717

Friedcat, would you like us to start sending you our claims (how many shares we own), in case you never receive official data from GLBSE? I've got my books in order, and I see my trades in the "complete trade history" csv file. That doesn't prove anything - but it may be all we've got, and as Jutarul explained above, it may be possible to reconstruct most of the database by matching people's claims based on amounts and timestamps.

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Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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October 10, 2012, 08:25:09 AM
 #718

It seems for a while the GLBSE was open to take peoples withdraw addresses.

The next page after that read:

http://i.imgur.com/CiDfd.png

What a B.S. !!!  Huh
Lethos
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October 10, 2012, 09:00:34 AM
 #719

Guess I must of been a sleep when that brief window was open where they actually decided to open up again to process our accounts.

Glad I documented what Shares I had. I was in the process of selling all mine of, but apparently was being too cautious about how quickly I did it. Had about 100 Btc in shares and ~1 Btc or so in my account. Stings a little to not have access to that still.

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October 10, 2012, 09:01:28 AM
 #720

Nef sure knows how to stir things up.
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