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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3864000 times)
DiabloD3
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September 03, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
 #421

Angry neighborhood bastard mod here.

Enough about GLBSE. Go take it up in the GLBSE thread.

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Jutarul
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September 03, 2012, 07:43:30 PM
 #422

And now you come with the idea to make bitcoin a paypal. Thanks god that wont happen.
Please don't confuse chargeback with reversal. In a reversal the two parties have to agree. In chargeback, only the issuer of the money - not the service/product - can recall the funds.
nedbert9 was asking for reversal.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
Jutarul
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September 03, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
 #423

Angry neighborhood bastard mod here.

Enough about GLBSE. Go take it up in the GLBSE thread.

FYI - the security issue of GLBSE is now discussed on the ASICminer board. Updates will be posted as soon as a consensus is reached.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
keystroke
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September 03, 2012, 08:23:22 PM
 #424

Where is the ASICMiner board? Is it a sub-board somewhere? Thanks

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September 03, 2012, 08:33:18 PM
 #425

Angry neighborhood bastard mod here.

Enough about GLBSE. Go take it up in the GLBSE thread.
I think I was talking about ASICMMINER assets stored at GLBSE.

Are you saying, you neighborhood bastard mod, that I not allowed to move such a subject in this thread?
Good to know Smiley

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LazyOtto
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September 03, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
 #426

He's just trying to keep us somewhat on track.

Much of the GLBSE conversation had shifted to one of general GLBSE issues. Nothing at all specific or unique to this thread's topic.

As such, those thoughts really do, IMO, belong over in the GLBSE thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60489.0
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September 03, 2012, 08:53:16 PM
 #427

Where is the ASICMiner board? Is it a sub-board somewhere? Thanks

It consists of indviduals who did go through the bulk purchase option to gain ASICminer board membership. Right now it's organized as a mailing list.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
SebastianJu
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September 04, 2012, 12:51:32 AM
 #428

Doesnt make sense to tell to discuss at a place where only some people can discuss.

I vote for an readonlythread especially writeable for friedcat so that he can announce news there without anyone interrupting. Then this thread here can be about asicminer and what related important topics. And in my opinion the security of glbse or the possibility that asicminer asics could be made useless are very important for the success of asicminer.

@Jutarul

And what would nedbert9 would have benefited from reversal? The thieve wont give him back the money for sure. Plus the scammer will have send the money forward already or changed into $.

So either way... there must be one person everytime that isnt happy with the end status. So we can chose between A) the possibilty that one can get bitcoins stolen. But that is in his hand to prevent it. But B) reversals or chargeback will hurt persons that cant stop it before happening and cant do anything against this happen again except stop using bitcoin.

I didnt find a concept for reversal. If there is more to say to this let me know a thread where we can speak about.
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September 04, 2012, 01:14:39 AM
 #429

@Jutarul
And what would nedbert9 would have benefited from reversal? The thieve wont give him back the money for sure. Plus the scammer will have send the money forward already or changed into $.
The shares were worth 300BTC, but the damage in BTC was about 30 BTC, because the market was not strong enough. This means that someone who placed a buy order at a low price got all the shares for practically no money. (free shares)

nedbert9 was interested in a reversal of this particular low-buy order. But for that he would have to establish communication with that person. AFAIK only Nefario knows who received those shares. I don't know the status of that reversal request, i.e. whether Nefario doesn't want to disclose the identity of the recipient or relay a message. Maybe nedbert9 was successful in establishing communication but the recipient doesn't want to "give up" on his accidental profit.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
HorseRider
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September 04, 2012, 01:26:15 AM
 #430


other beneficiaries, including a forum staff member who specifically benefited by ~160 shares and then offered me 0.64 BTC as a consolation (grr)



I think nedbert9 is acting like a child. He is referring me here. I'm sorry that I have to take this up to the public and I want to hear from the audience, whether I'm obligaged to do what nedlbert9 wanted me to do by the principles of Justic/Fairness and what I should do next. Is my offer to pay a 0.64BTC to nedbert9 a fair offer or am I just doing an unfair thing? I will act respondingly to what all you think.


The timeline of this drama:

1) for a long time, I have 168 shares of bidding order placed at GLBSE. it's 0.085BTC/share. That's nearly all bitcoin I have in GLBSE account during that time.
2) after that, the share was being traded around 0.09-0.11 BTC/share.
3) August 23, 11PM  nedbert9's account was hacked. and all his shares were dumped to the market. and my bidding order was fullfilled.
4) August 23, 11:54:33 PM, nedbert9 admitted that it was his account that had been hacked. imediately, I admitted publicly that I had bought some shares.
5) The trading price of ASIMCINER is around 0.08-0.09BTC for days. nedbert9 did nothing.
6) August 28, 03:34:01 AM, I offer a 0.64BTC payment to nedbert9 publicly.
7) August 28 12:46 AM, the price of ASICMINER jumped up to 0.0988 BTC/share.
8)August 28, 06:47:35 PM nedbert9 send me PM that he want to buy back the share. (implictly 0.085BTC per share, while the share price had already jumped.)
9)I persist that I will only offer a 0.64BTC conpensation. and nedbert9 think he was humuliated. And he accused me "benefited by ~160 shares"
10) now, As I stated in my PM reply to nedbert9, I brought this to public.

My argument:

a) I think in such incidents, I should only give back my unjust enrichment. My unjust enrichment is about 0.64BTC. the caculaton is :

Code:
(0.1/112.5%-0.085)*168=0.64 BTC

0.1/112.5% is the fair price I think I have to pay.
(there were much lower offer on the GLBSE before and after the incident)

0.085 is the share price I paid to the hacked nedbert9

168 is number of shares.

Nedbert9 falsely accused me that I "benefited by ~160 shares". It 's his loss, but not my profit. I have paid 0.085 BTC/share price for them( he/hacker).

b) More importantly, nedbert9 cost me opportunity to buy the share at lower price. during and after the hack for a long time, I have only several bitcoin in my GLBSE account. If nedbert9 had protected his account well enough, I would not buy the shares from him, and I will have the bitcoin to purchase shares from the market or friedcat.

c) after the accident, nedbert9 haven't act quick enough. the price had been depressed for several days and if nedbert9 had proposed that he wanna buy back the shares quick enough I would have had the chance to purchase the share back from the market at a much lower price. However,nedbertd9 forced me to sell back the shares back to him after the price is already in a rally.

I persist that my unjust enrichment is only 0.64BTC and I should only give this amount of money back to nedbert9.

what's the right thing to do in your opinion?
It's a small amount of money. Now I have sell lots of other shares. I have bought hundreds of shares @0.125 last night. I can afford what's the right thing to do. But I don't want to use a single cent of bitcoin to spoil the child.

attachment



I wanted to confirm that you are willing to sell back the 168 shares to me?

Is this right?

nedbert9,

I will give you back the unjust enrichment I got from the incident, but I am not going to sell the shares back to you. the unjust enrichment is about 0.64BTC, so I will give this amount bitcoin to you.


I can buy shares at the price 0.1BTC/1.125=0.08888889BTC from friedcat or the market around the accident. But the hacker sell the shares to me at 0.085BTC, the difference is the unjust enrichment I got.

Regards

HorseRider




You can't imagine how insulting this offer was.  It would have been better if you hadn't said anything at all since now I have to deal with the theft, but someone saying they will pay me $6 after profiting $170 from the theft of my assets.

Please don't PM me and put me on ignore.



Nedberd9,

I can understand you're angry now for your huge loss. 3000 usd is not a small money even if you're in a developed country. However, Your mail is surely an insulting, but mine is not.  You should not say this to me.

have you ever thought about what your own negligence cost other people's opportunity? I didn't have much bitcoin left in my GLBSE account at that time, all the coins I have used to put up that bidding wall. I like ASIC, I would like to buy as much as I could. If you had protect your own account carefully, my bidding order won't be taken down, and I would had had the money to purchase the shares when the price is lower, around 0.9BTC.  

However, the theft make it impossible. the price has already had gone way up, and the opportunity is gone and I cannot buy it that cheap.

profiting $170? How do you calculate that? Wait, that's very likely the total loss from the 165 shares, but not the amount of my unjust enrichment.

I wish you could be able to control your emotion and act before thinking over it. You don't blame the theft, and don't blame yourself,  but you just blame the people who put up a 0.085 bidding order which is only 10% lower than the quote price?

think about it, nedbert9.  improve the security of your PC. Then you don't have to disturb the market.

It's the theft, your negligence and bad emotion which is insulting you, but not the person who evaluate his own unjust enrichment and offer to give it back to the victim. (the negligence and bad emotion are usually somehow connected. Are you one of those people?)

confirm you get the email and understand what I said. Or I will make it public to make sure that you can read it.

HorseRider

P.S. It's likely that you intentionally to misunderstand my public post which offers to give back that amount of bitcoin.

You can find the most share trading history by searching the keyword #asciminer# on the twitter.https://twitter.com/#!/search/asicminer%20from%3AGLBSE

It's shame that GLBSE cannot give us a convinient way to get the trading history.

16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P
Jutarul
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September 04, 2012, 01:39:41 AM
 #431

My argument:

a) I think in such incidents, I should only give back my unjust enrichment. My unjust enrichment is about 0.64BTC. the caculaton is :

Code:
(0.1/112.5%-0.085)*168=0.64 BTC
...

I persist that my unjust enrichment is only 0.64BTC and I should only give this amount of money back to nedbert9.

what's the right thing to do in your opinion?

You made it too complicated. nedbert9 just lost 300 BTC and you're offering a complicated equation, resulting in a 0.64 BTC compensation. That doesn't compute with someone who just got raped.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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September 04, 2012, 03:41:28 AM
 #432

Looks like another player is aiming for the big prize, bASIC:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1157524#msg1157524

I cross-reference this here so ASICminer shareholders are aware. This should also take the heat out of the discussion about the self-mining aspect of ASICminer. With more ASIC companies on the market, the particular business strategy of one company has less impact on the overall market.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
bumbo
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September 04, 2012, 08:04:33 AM
 #433

Can you finally take your algorithm, GLBSE and 51% discussions somewhere else, please? I came here to look for news on ASICMINER, spent ten minutes to skim through the last few pages and found none.

GLBSE's security = ASICMINER security.
Don't you understand it?

Nope. ASICMINER security is based on GLBSE security, GLBSE security is based on SSL and Bitcoin security and so on. Shall we discuss everything in this thread now because things depend on other things? Just stop it.
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September 04, 2012, 08:29:42 AM
 #434

Can you finally take your algorithm, GLBSE and 51% discussions somewhere else, please? I came here to look for news on ASICMINER, spent ten minutes to skim through the last few pages and found none.

GLBSE's security = ASICMINER security.
Don't you understand it?

Nope. ASICMINER security is based on GLBSE security, GLBSE security is based on SSL and Bitcoin security and so on. Shall we discuss everything in this thread now because things depend on other things? Just stop it.
The thread titles says [GLBSE] ...

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September 05, 2012, 08:26:31 AM
 #435

Any comments on Tycho offering bonds for "deepbit reclaimer" asic?
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104680.0;all
Price of ~$300 per Gh/s is justified by the current absence of competitors.

Edit: here is a hint in English:
 
Soon our Reclaimer project bonds will be available - another way of investing in ASIC and the Bitcoin future Smiley

(Well, actually they are already available, but not announced yet)

EDIT2: my original claim of ~$300 per Gh/s was wrong, and I apologize. It was based on some of the comments in the referenced thread, not on what Tycho officially stated or restated.

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September 05, 2012, 09:34:36 AM
 #436

Any comments on Tycho offering bonds for "deepbit reclaimer" asic?
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104680.0;all
Price of ~$300 per Gh/s is justified by the current absence of competitors.

Edit: here is a hint in English:
 
Soon our Reclaimer project bonds will be available - another way of investing in ASIC and the Bitcoin future Smiley

(Well, actually they are already available, but not announced yet)

Well, it's always good to know about other projects.
But this one doesn't seem to be too far yet - they are talking even about February.
Also it is unclear what the bonds offer to their holders.

They are also discussing that the customs tax could be pretty high for importing the produced chips.
How is it with ASICMINER with respect to customs?
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September 05, 2012, 03:59:38 PM
 #437

Yes, the discussions are interesting but it would be nice to have a read only thread so that we could follow the ASIC development progress.

"The difference between a castle and a prison is only a question of who holds the keys."
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September 06, 2012, 04:14:40 AM
 #438

I think everyone is glancing over the most flagrant issue here. Nerded said he did not pay for the shares delivered yet (why bitcoinfountain issued shares before payment is kinda unclear to me...) and hes talking about being robbed? You got robbed for something you didnt pay for... As far as I am concerned, YOU OWE bitfoutain 300btc and someone stole what you owe. If you are not paying, you are in no way better than the guy who actually stole and are in no right to even comment on the subject until you pay your due.
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September 06, 2012, 08:48:12 AM
 #439

so here i am trying to decide wether to buy a couple dozen ASICMINER shares.
anyone care to focus on these?
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September 06, 2012, 09:26:28 AM
 #440

so here i am trying to decide wether to buy a couple dozen ASICMINER shares.
anyone care to focus on these?

You can only decide for yourself

I can tell you the reasons why I decided to invest and am still buying:

1. I believe ASICMINER  will be able to deliver on what they set out to do
2. I don't think BFL will have any working product before ASICMINER does (at least I hope not)
3. I like the transparency of ASICMINER (much better than BFL)
4. If 1 & 2 come true then I am benefitting from ASIC mining without actually owning any hardware, but I will be able to buy said hardware if I want after it has proven itself
5. I like being a shareholder in high-risk start up companies

My few bitcents worth
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