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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3802135 times)
DutchBrat
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November 21, 2012, 11:00:35 AM
 #901

I'm relatively active between 1:00AM to 3:00PM of forum time each day. Contacting me within this time interval could get quicker responses.


(Recent update: We are collecting the shareholders data. Please check:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1264071#msg1264071)

As some people might have already known, we have been working
on our own design of ASIC miner chips for quite a while.
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.0) The front-end (RTL) design,
optimization and simulation has finished and we are currently focusing on the
physical design. From existing data, we are convinced that it will be very
profitable thanks to the reasonable NRE, low margin cost, and revolutionary
speed and power consumption compared to all the current mining devices. Our
project will greatly contribute to the Bitcoin community and Bitcoin itself, by
offering nice return to investors and at the same time securing the network
significantly.

We are in a close race with our competitors. It is quite possible that
Bitfountain will be the one to have the world's first working ASIC-based
devices for Bitcoin mining. In this case, there will be fantastic early return.
Even if we are not the earliest, our company will still have a lot of room to
make money, because the impossibly insane price wars are not likely to happen,
or at least not all at once if they do.

About the Company ASICMINER is a GLBSE-listed partner company of the
Bitfountain IC company registered in China. After the fully issuing of
ASICMINER shares, each one of ASICMINER and Bitfountain controls 50% power to
make decisions and shares 50% of the total profits, but the ASICMINER investors
will first get 100% of the total profits until they have their principals paid
back. After the first payment, the dividends will always be paid weekly in each
Wednesday of Beijing time.

To be more detailed, ASICMINER has 200,000 shares in total. Each share gets
1/400,000 of the voting power of, and the regular dividends from, the Bitfountain
IC company registered in China. In addition, before investors of ASICMINER
break even against the IPO price, all net gains from Bitfountain will be paid
to them. The issuer could stop selling ASICMINER whenever enough funds for the
expenses are collected.

IPO The GLBSE ticker is ASICMINER. 200,000 shares are issued. Initially,
30,000 are for public sale. 170,000 are for private bulk purchase via PMs and the
asset transfer system of GLBSE. The ratio may be adjusted but the total number is
always 200,000. The price per share is set at 0.1BTC. Given the fluctuation of BTC price,
the IPO will be closed when collected funds exceeds the expected expense and the
expected abundance reservation. No more shares will be released to the market other
than the very 200,000 ones.

Each investor who privately buys 5,000 or more shares will get extra 10% ones,
plus a position on the board of Bitfountain. 10,000 or more shares will get
another extra 2.5%. Board members could ask for details of Bitfountain, as well
as inspecting and monitoring our financials.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Business plan and Estimated Return The expected starting date of chips
manufacturing is late August to September, 2012. The chips are supposed to be
deployed and start hashing in October to November, 2012.

After the ASIC miner chips are produced and deployed, we will first directly
mine with them, then use part of the revenue to make user-friendlier mining
boards or rigs for sale.

If our chips are successfully produced, all the following businesses will
contribute to the shareholders' return:
  Self-Mining with First Batch of Chips At least 12TH/s in
total, that is equivalent to 30MH/s per share, or 300MH/s per BTC.
  Hashrate/Chip/Board Selling Net profits are
conservatively calculated as $5 per GH/s. That roughly equals to 0.5BTC per
GH/s with the current BTC/USD exchange rate. It means that each time we sell
1TH/s of hashing power in various forms, the net profit per share will be
1.25mBTC, that is, 1.25% of the initial investment.
  Self-Mining after Mass Production Unlimited hashrate in
theory because of the low margin cost. But in reality we have to consider the
cost of management (labor) and place (rent). We believe an expansion to 50TH/s
is not hard to achieve. That pushes the hashrate per share to 155MH/s, or
1.55G/s per BTC.
  Next-Generation Products The plan will be discussed among
board members and approved by shareholders, because it would require keeping
some of the revenues instead of paying them all as dividends. The return of
this stage is difficult to estimate, since in the Bitcoin world everything may
happen and happens even quicklier than imagination. But we personally believe
that much more potential profits wait there.

Potential Risks and Tips on How to Hedge We list all possible risks of
our project here, and the most straightforward way to hedge each of them.
  BTC drops too much in value This will finally make mining
unprofitable because even with ASIC devices people still have to pay
electricity bills and operating fees. Hedge: take a short position on BTC.
  BTC increases too much in value This might make your
investment of your Bitcoins to ASICMINER less profitable than simply holding
them. Hedge: take a long position on BTC.
  Failure to produce The IC production has some minimum
failure rate. We have some fund reservation ourselves to cope with this
scenario, but the risk here is still not zero. Hedge: diversify your portfolio
by also making bets on our competitors.
  Outpaced too much by competitors It will make the
difficulty very high and our efficiency/price less attractive. Hedge: same as
above, making some bets on competitors of us.

Risk Compensation for Investors To further compensate the risks of
investors, we give investors following privileges.
  You Break Even First We (Bitfountain) will not take any
net profits from mining or device sales until the investors (ASICMINER) break
even against the IPO price (0.1 BTC per share). It means that each share of
ASICMINER will first have 1/x of the total net revenues as dividends, in which
x equals to the total number of ASICMINER shares in circulation, and have
1/400,000 after the principals of the investors are paid out.
  Return On Rally If the price of Bitcoin rallies too much,
then we probably don't need so much money to make our project succeed. We will
return part of the principals as big dividends before we tape out the chips
when BTC/USD exchange rate rises a lot.
  Return When Discontinuation If we haven't raised enough
money to tape out before August. 28, 2012, we will return 100.5% of the total
raised funds to investors of ASICMINER. The 0.5% is for compensating the GLBSE
fee.
  No Future Dilution Each share of ASICMINER always
represents 1/400,000 of the whole company. If we have to attract more investors
in the future, we will only sell our own Bitfountain shares.

Extra Words The OP is kept as brief and clear as possible, if you have
any further questions about details, just ask. Advices and criticisms are also
welcome.

For posterity Smiley
The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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November 21, 2012, 11:45:01 AM
 #902

... software? ... Smiley
So to repeat this question with, I guess, more info, coz it wasn't obvious what I meant (and no one replied) Smiley

What software are you using?

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DutchBrat
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November 21, 2012, 12:48:20 PM
 #903

... software? ... Smiley
So to repeat this question with, I guess, more info, coz it wasn't obvious what I meant (and no one replied) Smiley

What software are you using?

I think they are still sticking with the plan to write their own software for the first batch, then provide some software developers with a board to help develop software for the masses

Friedcat: Have you guys thought about mining software yet ? Will you develop that in-house or get supported by CGMiner for instance ?

Don't know if that part can be started before the actual product is in your hands ? That will also take time I assume
We will make/customize our own version at first when the PCB design is finalized. After we publish the PCB interface to the community, and people make better open source software than ours, we will possibly switch.
Hmm - sounds just like BFL - before BFL changed their mind and said they would support software development of their ASIC.
Why am I not surprised? Tongue
Sorry for my bad communication of giving people the impression that we claim to write the software from scratch.

What in my mind was the scenario of our own deployment of our first batch of THashes when I replied the question. The software needs to be modified to adapt our hardware protocol and optimized for larger size of works from the network. This part would first be done with ourselves because it allows quicker iteration.

Since we don't sell our boards until later batches, and mere specification is not enough for other people to support our products with their software, we (Bitfountain side) talked about giving a small number of sample boards to the community for evaluation and development before we accept any orders. The final plan should be discussed among board members and approved by shareholders.

Edited with the right quote marks, as it was Friedcat who said it, not me
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November 21, 2012, 01:20:46 PM
 #904

Hrm, if friedcat sent me one to keep, I'd get DiabloMiner working with it I bet.

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November 21, 2012, 01:55:33 PM
 #905

...

Edited with the right quote marks, as it was Friedcat who said it, not me
I completely forgot about that post.
Oops. Sorry.

But yeah I guess I asked again coz things are getting close to deadlines and I've actually not heard from any of the ASIC developers yet.
I'd have thought at least one of them would have sorted out their firmware by now, but not even a whisper yet.

BFL will be sending me to their factory when things are ready, and Tom will be sending me a a bASIC once they have the dev devices ready.
Like most everyone else, I'm getting a little agitated waiting Smiley and will not be surprised if we're given zero time to get the software ready Tongue
(though I've almost completed the new internal libraries to use direct USB rather than Serial-USB to help with performance and to hopefully simplify ASIC implementations)

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November 21, 2012, 03:49:04 PM
 #906

... software? ... Smiley
So to repeat this question with, I guess, more info, coz it wasn't obvious what I meant (and no one replied) Smiley

What software are you using?
We are very sorry for our misunderstanding. We are using an older version of TheSeven's Bitcoin miner written in Python as the code base to run our test boards. It had been also used for testing when we were in the FPGA verification phase. However, since the chips are not out yet, we are running with artificial unreal signals without the actual chips producing them. So "our part" of specialization/optimization couldn't be done without real chips providing real statistics.

We chose it because we wanted to focus on the hardware and spend less time on fixing the code. It may be totally abandoned and switched to a C-written miner if we couldn't push the number of mining boards each controller board could handle high enough with the overhead of the Python interpreter.

...

Edited with the right quote marks, as it was Friedcat who said it, not me
I completely forgot about that post.
Oops. Sorry.

But yeah I guess I asked again coz things are getting close to deadlines and I've actually not heard from any of the ASIC developers yet.
I'd have thought at least one of them would have sorted out their firmware by now, but not even a whisper yet.

BFL will be sending me to their factory when things are ready, and Tom will be sending me a a bASIC once they have the dev devices ready.
Like most everyone else, I'm getting a little agitated waiting Smiley and will not be surprised if we're given zero time to get the software ready Tongue
We are very sorry but it is now hard to achieve the projected date given by the time we were doing the design, because of the delay from our chip manufacturer.

With respect to the firmware, that is, software running on each mining board's controller MCU, there are no reason why we couldn't make them public except that they are not final. What we would like to keep secret is the RTL design, which contains a lot of optimizations. Everything else will be open since they are almost straightforward.

So the community will get the firmware immediately after we get a really running version with real chips. We are sorry again for the original estimated date and the current slower progress.

(though I've almost completed the new internal libraries to use direct USB rather than Serial-USB to help with performance and to hopefully simplify ASIC implementations)
Would you mind if you could PM us for some more details please? We are doing everything we could to make sure we are not the cause of the critical path of the whole project and reduce the whole deploying time. So we will be very glad if we could get any help and idea from you. Smiley

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November 21, 2012, 10:00:53 PM
 #907

...

(though I've almost completed the new internal libraries to use direct USB rather than Serial-USB to help with performance and to hopefully simplify ASIC implementations)
Would you mind if you could PM us for some more details please? We are doing everything we could to make sure we are not the cause of the critical path of the whole project and reduce the whole deploying time. So we will be very glad if we could get any help and idea from you. Smiley
I'll post it here Smiley
(then we can create a thread if a discussion develops here)

I'm using libusb on linux and libusbx on windows (so a consistent code interface for both - same code for both)

In it's first incarnation it's using Bulk transfer to do everything coz I have it running (already working) on an FPGA ModMinerQuad
Working with no trouble already on Linux - just reworking the device identification code coz it didn't work on windows Tongue
The ASIC version may need Interrupt transfers for better performance, but I'll get to that, if needed, after the initial code is fully working with Bulk transfers.

If your MCU developer is well versed with the different USB transfers and their advantages/disadvantages then they will be glad to know that the basic identification code (not finished yet) will allow any Transfer Type - but I've only implemented Bulk so far in data transfer.

The MMQ code runs 4 threads (to 4 devices) over a single MCU - so there's no issues (at least for me) for dealing with multiple threads and multiple endpoints - but I envisage only using a single interface - hopefully with 2 endpoint pairs

FPGA MMQ's poll (and so do BFL FPGAs - but Icarus FPGA doesn't) so the actual MMQ code won't look like how it will with ASIC
(I sincerely hope you do not implement any polling requirement - I'm pretty sure neither BFL or bASIC will - and since Avalon is from the Icarus developer who didn't do that in their first FPGA I'm pretty sure they wont with Avalon)

The expected high level interface is: send work, wait for zero or more nonce replies, after zero or more replies sent, get a completion message back.

If you go beyond that level to handling difficulty or even implementing something like stratum in the MCU, then that will of course be done differently.

If you implement difficulty, I'd have the miner actually request shares at an easier difficulty than required (and have some limit even on that) since the advantage of a short known expected average response time is that you also find out quickly when something has gone wrong.
(device disconnect, USB reset required etc)
Clearly there is a trade off between response time and USB limitations - e.g. if someone has 100 mining devices on a single computer

USB1 has a transaction time of 1ms and USB2 of 0.125ms (but can be faster with different transfers)
So hopefully you will be using at least USB2 (some of the FPGAs are currently USB1)

I'm not much of a USB expert Tongue (I've only been messing around with it for a few weeks) but there would be advantage to having multiple endpoints so that one pair is used for the mining and another pair can be used for the status type protocol.
(e.g. temperature, configuration, etc over a different endpoint pair to mining)
Would obviously make the mining software easier but I'm not sure of the positive or negative effects of that on USB.

As for the MCU firmware itself, I'm 99.9% sure the firmware will be uploadable on all ASIC devices, so I don't expect you'll gain much by hiding the details of that.

Meanwhile if you wish to discuss anything in PM or private IRC then that's fine.
But obviously once the miner code is implemented there won't be many secrets Smiley

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November 21, 2012, 10:46:44 PM
 #908

I'll post it here Smiley
(then we can create a thread if a discussion develops here)

Actually there is another thread which is supposed to be dedicated to the device (block erupter). I'd say that includes any software which operates it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.0

This thread is rather reserved for discussions about bitfountain funding and shareholder information.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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November 22, 2012, 06:34:55 PM
 #909

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580
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November 22, 2012, 06:42:20 PM
 #910

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

Learning from past mistakes, I advice to research how much control the asset issuer has over the shareholder information. As with GLBSE, any exchange can vanish over nite, taking all the data with it.

ADDENDUM: Also, I advice larger shareholders to still take advantage of the "direct" shares lock-in option offered by friedcat, once the claims are processable.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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November 22, 2012, 06:58:32 PM
 #911

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

Learning from past mistakes, I advice to research how much control the asset issuer has over the shareholder information. As with GLBSE, any exchange can vanish over nite, taking all the data with it.

ADDENDUM: Also, I advice larger shareholders to still take advantage of the "direct" shares lock-in option offered by friedcat, once the claims are processable.

https://btct.co/ & LTC-GLOBAL security issuers have full access to shareholder information(email address & # of shares held) updated every transaction. This information is also periodically emailed to the asset issuers email address of record. Safeguards against a GLBSE like calamity have been built into both exchanges from the start.

Disclosure: I am a LTC-GLOBAL shareholder and asset issuer.

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November 22, 2012, 08:39:00 PM
 #912

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

Learning from past mistakes, I advice to research how much control the asset issuer has over the shareholder information. As with GLBSE, any exchange can vanish over nite, taking all the data with it.

ADDENDUM: Also, I advice larger shareholders to still take advantage of the "direct" shares lock-in option offered by friedcat, once the claims are processable.

https://btct.co/ & LTC-GLOBAL security issuers have full access to shareholder information(email address & # of shares held) updated every transaction. This information is also periodically emailed to the asset issuers email address of record. Safeguards against a GLBSE like calamity have been built into both exchanges from the start.

Disclosure: I am a LTC-GLOBAL shareholder and asset issuer.

Yeah I'd like the few shares I own on that exchange too.  I use both Cryptostocks.com and litecoinglobal.com (the same software as the quoted exchange) and litecoinglobal.com is much more easy to use and with more features too.

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November 22, 2012, 08:51:29 PM
 #913

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

I wont see my shares at this exchange. The owner has 19 posts now and i see no point to trust that exchange. There was another exchange before glbse.com that was in fact a scam. Mybitcointrade.com. Only created to scam. So as long as the owner isnt someone who can be trusted and the protection against the risks glbse offered at the end are better i dont want to have my shares in this exchange. But i think i have enough shares to use "direct" shares now. So i would ask friedcat to handle my shares that way instead.

If friedcat would have an exchange it would be another thing. But this new one looks too suspicious to me.
This is a good point. No offense to anyone.

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November 22, 2012, 08:54:57 PM
 #914

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

I wont see my shares at this exchange. The owner has 19 posts now and i see no point to trust that exchange. There was another exchange before glbse.com that was in fact a scam. Mybitcointrade.com. Only created to scam. So as long as the owner isnt someone who can be trusted and the protection against the risks glbse offered at the end are better i dont want to have my shares in this exchange. But i think i have enough shares to use "direct" shares now. So i would ask friedcat to handle my shares that way instead.

If friedcat would have an exchange it would be another thing. But this new one looks too suspicious to me.

The "owner" is a large group of shareholders in the community.

The posts you see come from the company account, created for the new BTC version of the exchange.

Cheers.


I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
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November 22, 2012, 08:59:40 PM
 #915

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

I wont see my shares at this exchange. The owner has 19 posts now and i see no point to trust that exchange. There was another exchange before glbse.com that was in fact a scam. Mybitcointrade.com. Only created to scam. So as long as the owner isnt someone who can be trusted and the protection against the risks glbse offered at the end are better i dont want to have my shares in this exchange. But i think i have enough shares to use "direct" shares now. So i would ask friedcat to handle my shares that way instead.

If friedcat would have an exchange it would be another thing. But this new one looks too suspicious to me.

Don't be confused by the owner account having only 19 posts - that's just an account created for posting in respect of btc.co.  Guess he didn't make that plain anywhere.

The manager/developer is burnside who runs LTC-GLOBAL exchange - which you likely wouldn't be aware of as it's for Litecoin so in the Alt currencies section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101694.0

He also runs a mining bond and a mining pool.

The new exchange runs the same code that was used on LTC-GLOBAL.  If you look at the thread above you'll be able to see quite clearly that he's a heck of a lot better than nefario ever was at responding to users, updating the site etc.  And the site's nothing like the slow, clunky thing that was GLBSE.  Some of the shares giving ownership of btc.co are traded on LTC-GLOBAL - they're now proxy shares into the Bermuda-registered company owning the site.

I'm also an asset-owner on LTC-GLOBAL (a tiny LTC-denominated fundm and shortly a fixed-rate bond).  My fund holds a few ASIC-MINER shares - hence my interest in this thread.
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November 22, 2012, 09:03:20 PM
 #916

Friedcat, this new exchange could be of interest.

They have setup a protocol to 'import' an asset if had previously been listed at GLBSE.

Now that it seems Nefario is sending out the asset info list in a regular format, it might be practical.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127215.msg1350580#msg1350580

I wont see my shares at this exchange. The owner has 19 posts now and i see no point to trust that exchange. There was another exchange before glbse.com that was in fact a scam. Mybitcointrade.com. Only created to scam. So as long as the owner isnt someone who can be trusted and the protection against the risks glbse offered at the end are better i dont want to have my shares in this exchange. But i think i have enough shares to use "direct" shares now. So i would ask friedcat to handle my shares that way instead.

If friedcat would have an exchange it would be another thing. But this new one looks too suspicious to me.

The "owner" is a large group of shareholders in the community.

The posts you see come from the company account, created for the new BTC version of the exchange.

Cheers.



Oops. Sorry for rushing to conclusions. This seems worth considering.

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November 22, 2012, 10:07:48 PM
 #917

The "owner" is a large group of shareholders in the community.

The posts you see come from the company account, created for the new BTC version of the exchange.

Cheers.



Oops. Sorry for rushing to conclusions. This seems worth considering.


Skepticism is a good thing to have in this community.

I'd definitely like everyone to look into what we've built, but I highly doubt that it'll be a perfect fit for all the assets that were on GLBSE.  Good thing is, there's lots of options out there.  Smiley 

I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
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November 23, 2012, 02:01:17 AM
 #918

https://btct.co/ & LTC-GLOBAL security issuers have full access to shareholder information(email address & # of shares held) updated every transaction. This information is also periodically emailed to the asset issuers email address of record. Safeguards against a GLBSE like calamity have been built into both exchanges from the start.

Disclosure: I am a LTC-GLOBAL shareholder and asset issuer.

burnside is a good egg, but the fact is you don't have to trust him. As always you have to trust the asset issuer, that has not changed.

Apologies friedcat, not trying to derail your thread.

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November 23, 2012, 07:08:53 AM
 #919

Well known shareholders doesnt mean much when the one person in charge can keep them out when he wants. Nefario decided to get a big salary and because he had 60% of shares no one could complain even though they then didnt earn dividends that would be worth the shares anymore. In the same time making the shareprices drop big time because they are connected to the dividends.
He decided to close glbse and the other shareholders couldnt do a thing. And they then lost the rest of their btc invested into shares for glbse because when its closed its worth nothing anymore.
They did have some secret key to get access to the database but thats worth nothing when the database password is changed.

So burnside is the one. He is registered here since 6 months only. The owner of mybitcointrade.com, that had an exchange created only to scam, even is registered here since 18 months. Didnt help a thing.
So sorry... i dont see how i could trust my money or shares to that exchange. I mean its similar to a online bitcoin wallet. Its a possible big risk without big advantage.

Maybe you can convince me but at the moment the risk looks way higher than the gain.

Don't want to hijack.  Response here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125629.msg1352600#msg1352600

Wink

I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
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November 23, 2012, 08:47:22 AM
 #920

Well known shareholders doesnt mean much when the one person in charge can keep them out when he wants. Nefario decided to get a big salary and because he had 60% of shares no one could complain even though they then didnt earn dividends that would be worth the shares anymore. In the same time making the shareprices drop big time because they are connected to the dividends.
He decided to close glbse and the other shareholders couldnt do a thing. And they then lost the rest of their btc invested into shares for glbse because when its closed its worth nothing anymore.
They did have some secret key to get access to the database but thats worth nothing when the database password is changed.

So burnside is the one. He is registered here since 6 months only. The owner of mybitcointrade.com, that had an exchange created only to scam, even is registered here since 18 months. Didnt help a thing.
So sorry... i dont see how i could trust my money or shares to that exchange. I mean its similar to a online bitcoin wallet. Its a possible big risk without big advantage.

Maybe you can convince me but at the moment the risk looks way higher than the gain.

After GLBSE I'd expect quite a few will share your sentiments about using ANY online exchange - and that's not unreasonable.  It's also the case that there's definitely risks associated with using ANY online exchange - be it BTC.CO, MPEX, CRYPTO or whatever.  Even if they provide fairly timely (as if the case with BTC.CO) or very timely (as is the case with MPEX) information to identify shareholders, there's never going to be a total guarantee that they won't just run with your funds.  And no company ownership structure can change that - at the end of the day SOMEONE is going to have access to the wallets.  Adding more people with that access would increase risk, not decrease it.


But on the other side of the coin there's also some of us (myself included) who would like to be able to trade our shares - either selling the ones we have or buying more.  In my case I'd like to be able to do both - as I generally trade rather than invest.

So isn't the obvious solution for ASICMINER to list on an exchange - but only transfer to it the shares of those who WANT to trade on there (and accept the risks associated with that).  As an existing user of LTC-GLOBAL who likes the platform and the way burnside runs things I'm in favour of BTC.CO - but if ASICMINER went to cryptostocks instead I'd settle for that.

There's no risk to ASICMINER in such a move:

The fee for creating an asset on BTC.CO would be refunded,
The distribution of initial shares would be largely automated (once a list had been compiled of those who wanted their shares there),
The only funds ASICMINER would have to hold there would be dividends for the shares on there briefly prior to disbursement.

Investors who wanted their shares kept off an exchange could just leave the with friedcat to be handled however they'd be dealt with if there wasn't an exchange listing at all.

This would allows those who want to trade shares to do so - without friedcat having to participate in it.  Any risk to their BTC deposited there would be nothing to do with ASICMINER, and if BTC.CO suddenly vanished then friedcat could just look in his mailbox for the last emailed list of shareholders and use that for ownership of those shares (or he could set up a cron job to query the API every 5 minutes and always have a list no more than 5 minutes out of date).

So yeah - there's a risk.  But there's also a reward.  Let those of use who believe that risk/reward ratio is favourable take the risk - and enjoy the reward.
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