Bitcoin Forum
June 22, 2017, 10:36:54 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.14.2  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 [35] 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 ... 1348 »
  Print  
Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3771375 times)
punin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 561


View Profile WWW
October 08, 2012, 08:57:36 PM
 #681

I'd like someone on the board to comment whether they're up-to-date with how this is being handled from Bitfountain's side. I haven't heard anything for several days, and boy would it make me feel better if I knew what's going on.

Did Bitfountain hold any BTC on GLBSE? Does GLBSE going under affect the speed of the manufacturing process in any way? How are the dividens going to get paid without GLBSE? What will happen to us shareholders if GLBSE fails to provide information on who's holding stock? Is there a plan B?

Head of Product Development
Bitfury Group
www.bitfury.com
1498171014
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1498171014

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1498171014
Reply with quote  #2

1498171014
Report to moderator
1498171014
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1498171014

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1498171014
Reply with quote  #2

1498171014
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
matauc12
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 03:35:17 AM
 #682

I'd like someone on the board to comment whether they're up-to-date with how this is being handled from Bitfountain's side. I haven't heard anything for several days, and boy would it make me feel better if I knew what's going on.

Did Bitfountain hold any BTC on GLBSE? Does GLBSE going under affect the speed of the manufacturing process in any way? How are the dividens going to get paid without GLBSE? What will happen to us shareholders if GLBSE fails to provide information on who's holding stock? Is there a plan B?
that is a lot of questions for a very recent and complicated problem. They will speculate when they have appropriate information, which you should expect to be a couple days due to the nature of the problem. Meanwhile, knowing or not what will happen has very little effect on the outcome and merely an undue luxury at this time.
Bogart
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 882


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 03:37:43 AM
 #683

Screen cap of ASICMINER chart on GLBSE shortly before it went down.

http://i.imgur.com/mW215.png

I dunno if this is useful at all or not, but here it is.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
friedcat
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 848



View Profile
October 09, 2012, 04:46:19 AM
 #684

Did Bitfountain hold any BTC on GLBSE?
Yes. But the larger part of the total BTC had been withdrawn and converted to RMB to
cover the first batch production and packaging of chips. They will be paid to the foundry
during the wafer production phase and the packaging phase.

Does GLBSE going under affect the speed of the manufacturing process in any way?
Probably not. It may affect a little on the speed of deploying though. But as long as the
chips are out and proved working, private loans will be much easier and safer to get.
If we get enough loans, the process all the way up will not be delayed at all. If not, we
may deploy our products incrementally by using the cash flow from the initial boards to pay
for the rest.

How are the dividens going to get paid without GLBSE?
We will collect (amounts + payment addresses) data from GLBSE whenever its available.

What will happen to us shareholders if GLBSE fails to provide information on who's holding stock? Is there a plan B?
This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

VeeMiner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 751


bitcoin hodler


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 07:05:06 AM
 #685

This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad
Tachikoma
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile WWW
October 09, 2012, 07:35:18 AM
 #686

This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad

I'm so fucking (pardon my French) happy I actually made one the day before it went down. Although not sure how much good it would be as "evidence" it's something at least.

Electrum: the convenience of a web wallet, without the risks | Bytesized Seedboxes BTC/LTC supported
matauc12
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 07:37:55 AM
 #687

This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad
Out of all the possible reasons GLBSE was shut down, there isn't really one that comes to mind that would involve the impossibility or unwillingness of nefario to provide those codes (as its no expense to him to provide them or not).
memvola
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 08:30:27 AM
 #688

Out of all the possible reasons GLBSE was shut down, there isn't really one that comes to mind that would involve the impossibility or unwillingness of nefario to provide those codes (as its no expense to him to provide them or not).

Besides, there presumably are older backups. There are plenty of people who would wreak havoc, so I'm assuming there is considerable expense to not resolve this problem rapidly. Codes are an odd way to deal with the situation, I'm guessing a more secure method is being devised. All in all, I'm worried about neither the funds nor the ownership info, but the delays.
burger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 195


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 10:11:15 AM
 #689

This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad

I used the GLBSE android app the day before GLBSE closed and all my assets are cached in that app.

Shadow383
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 11:43:09 AM
 #690

This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad
Out of all the possible reasons GLBSE was shut down, there isn't really one that comes to mind that would involve the impossibility or unwillingness of nefario to provide those codes (as its no expense to him to provide them or not).
If he's in trouble, there's the possibility that his handing over the codes to unknown people would be against all the AML stuff he'll now have to deal with.
SebastianJu
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1834


Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile


View Profile WWW
October 09, 2012, 11:46:42 AM
 #691

Does GLBSE going under affect the speed of the manufacturing process in any way?
Probably not. It may affect a little on the speed of deploying though. But as long as the
chips are out and proved working, private loans will be much easier and safer to get.
If we get enough loans, the process all the way up will not be delayed at all. If not, we
may deploy our products incrementally by using the cash flow from the initial boards to pay
for the rest.

Does that mean sell more shares? I mean there are still available public shares. Otherwise i wouldnt like the idea because it would devalue the value of the already sold shares because more people would have to get their part of the shares.


What will happen to us shareholders if GLBSE fails to provide information on who's holding stock? Is there a plan B?
This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

I dont think that will be necessary. I mean in the worst case, when nefario really takes the money and runs... he doesnt have a use for the shares. He could give them out for showing good will or when trying to optimize his scamresult could try to blackmail. Give me btc and i give you your details or so. Anyway... in every case the shares could be get... if the blackmailfee wouldnt be too high. Only saying. In fact i doubt that he wants to scam anyway.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad

I used the GLBSE android app the day before GLBSE closed and all my assets are cached in that app.

Unfortunately that cant work. I mean screenshots can be manipulated easily. The same goes for cached files. If Bitfountain had to go this way it cant possibly work. I cant imagine how it should.
But i dont fear that this is needed anyway.
friedcat
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 848



View Profile
October 09, 2012, 12:03:15 PM
 #692

Does GLBSE going under affect the speed of the manufacturing process in any way?
Probably not. It may affect a little on the speed of deploying though. But as long as the
chips are out and proved working, private loans will be much easier and safer to get.
If we get enough loans, the process all the way up will not be delayed at all. If not, we
may deploy our products incrementally by using the cash flow from the initial boards to pay
for the rest.

Does that mean sell more shares? I mean there are still available public shares. Otherwise i wouldnt like the idea because it would devalue the value of the already sold shares because more people would have to get their part of the shares.
No. It means that if we will need emergent money, we would rather borrow RMB locally from banks or loaning companies and pay the them principals and interests on time, without giving up shares. When the chips are out, the risk become much lower and borrowing would be better than diluting shares.

What will happen to us shareholders if GLBSE fails to provide information on who's holding stock? Is there a plan B?
This will be a very unfortunate scenario. In this case we will ask for claims of ASICMINER share holdings from shareholders and have to rely on their honesty and other evidences. It's not a good solution as a plan B, but it's the only way we could think of, if we couldn't get the shareholders data out of GLBSE.

I dont think that will be necessary. I mean in the worst case, when nefario really takes the money and runs... he doesnt have a use for the shares. He could give them out for showing good will or when trying to optimize his scamresult could try to blackmail. Give me btc and i give you your details or so. Anyway... in every case the shares could be get... if the blackmailfee wouldnt be too high. Only saying. In fact i doubt that he wants to scam anyway.

now I wish I had a screenshot of my assets Sad

I used the GLBSE android app the day before GLBSE closed and all my assets are cached in that app.

Unfortunately that cant work. I mean screenshots can be manipulated easily. The same goes for cached files. If Bitfountain had to go this way it cant possibly work. I cant imagine how it should.
But i dont fear that this is needed anyway.
We are talking about the most extreme case already. In that case we either do nothing or do something imperfect. If with an insignificant probability that the number adds up without an insane result, it would be at least a better solution than doing nothing.

friedcat
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 848



View Profile
October 09, 2012, 12:53:23 PM
 #693

How much BTC do you have in glbse still?
If glbse doesnt pay it would be a hurt for shareholders too. Because its money that is lost to the company. And that money has to be earned first again. I hope its not so very much.
The same goes for local loans. The interest and the loan itself would have to be earned first. But anyway... the outcome of this all probably cant be changed.
It's not very much. We already sold another batch of Bitcoins to fiat after our first release of financial report to increase our fiat reserve to deal with emergent situations.

But if at last, the money is indeed lost with the GLBSE default, it will be like this:

--When we have to borrow some money to fill the gap
1. We use the company identity to borrow money because it will be more feasible than personal loans.
2. However, the reliability of returning the money lies only on me the individual.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

--When we don't have to borrow any money
1. I mark myself of owing the company the same amount of Bitcoins
2. The board members decide an interest rate for my debt, then make the corresponding motion, if not passed, iterate.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

It's my management fault to keep the rest of the funds within GLBSE and trust it like trusting our company's bank account. The shareholders of ASICMINER should not take the consequences.

SebastianJu
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1834


Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile


View Profile WWW
October 09, 2012, 01:58:37 PM
 #694

How much BTC do you have in glbse still?
If glbse doesnt pay it would be a hurt for shareholders too. Because its money that is lost to the company. And that money has to be earned first again. I hope its not so very much.
The same goes for local loans. The interest and the loan itself would have to be earned first. But anyway... the outcome of this all probably cant be changed.
It's not very much. We already sold another batch of Bitcoins to fiat after our first release of financial report to increase our fiat reserve to deal with emergent situations.

But if at last, the money is indeed lost with the GLBSE default, it will be like this:

--When we have to borrow some money to fill the gap
1. We use the company identity to borrow money because it will be more feasible than personal loans.
2. However, the reliability of returning the money lies only on me the individual.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

--When we don't have to borrow any money
1. I mark myself of owing the company the same amount of Bitcoins
2. The board members decide an interest rate for my debt, then make the corresponding motion, if not passed, iterate.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

It's my management fault to keep the rest of the funds within GLBSE and trust it like trusting our company's bank account. The shareholders of ASICMINER should not take the consequences.

That sounds dignified. Even more because you arent guilty about the things happening with glbse. You really want to keep away every possible harm from shareholders. I hope you can carry that weight but i think you own a good part of the company so its quite possible. But before you get in personal trouble i would prefer the whole company is carrying it with you. But im only a small shareholder.

Anyway... its a generous offer. Lets hope its not needed.
DutchBrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
 #695

Friedcat, from the above conversation I understand that Nefario has not contacted ASICMINER (i.e. you) yet with how to proceed

Makes it all seems very dodgy as the GLBSE website says they are closing accounts and refunding BTC since late last night UK time

Obviously they should talk to asset issuers first !
friedcat
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 848



View Profile
October 09, 2012, 02:18:12 PM
 #696

Friedcat, from the above conversation I understand that Nefario has not contacted ASICMINER (i.e. you) yet with how to proceed

Makes it all seems very dodgy as the GLBSE website says they are closing accounts and refunding BTC since late last night UK time

Obviously they should talk to asset issuers first !
We mailed the information listed on the requirements on the announce page when it was first displayed. Till now no information is received
from GLBSE. There are two possibilities:

1. They will release an automatic claiming system so they don't process mail requests.
2. They haven't started refunding yet.

DutchBrat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 02:38:28 PM
 #697

Friedcat, from the above conversation I understand that Nefario has not contacted ASICMINER (i.e. you) yet with how to proceed

Makes it all seems very dodgy as the GLBSE website says they are closing accounts and refunding BTC since late last night UK time

Obviously they should talk to asset issuers first !
We mailed the information listed on the requirements on the announce page when it was first displayed. Till now no information is received
from GLBSE. There are two possibilities:

1. They will release an automatic claiming system so they don't process mail requests.
2. They haven't started refunding yet.

Fingers crossed !
Jutarul
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994



View Profile
October 09, 2012, 05:01:19 PM
 #698

Does that mean sell more shares? I mean there are still available public shares. Otherwise i wouldnt like the idea because it would devalue the value of the already sold shares because more people would have to get their part of the shares.
No. It means that if we will need emergent money, we would rather borrow RMB locally from banks or loaning companies and pay the them principals and interests on time, without giving up shares. When the chips are out, the risk become much lower and borrowing would be better than diluting shares.
If the chips are out and proven to work, Bitfountain can take preorders. That's the way to do it.

We are talking about the most extreme case already. In that case we either do nothing or do something imperfect. If with an insignificant probability that the number adds up without an insane result, it would be at least a better solution than doing nothing.
In that case we should get all the csv backups from the shareholders and someone has to do a timestamp analysis of the involved transactions. This way you can reconstruct a tree and identify false claims.

If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
matauc12
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 06:03:40 PM
 #699

How much BTC do you have in glbse still?
If glbse doesnt pay it would be a hurt for shareholders too. Because its money that is lost to the company. And that money has to be earned first again. I hope its not so very much.
The same goes for local loans. The interest and the loan itself would have to be earned first. But anyway... the outcome of this all probably cant be changed.
It's not very much. We already sold another batch of Bitcoins to fiat after our first release of financial report to increase our fiat reserve to deal with emergent situations.

But if at last, the money is indeed lost with the GLBSE default, it will be like this:

--When we have to borrow some money to fill the gap
1. We use the company identity to borrow money because it will be more feasible than personal loans.
2. However, the reliability of returning the money lies only on me the individual.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

--When we don't have to borrow any money
1. I mark myself of owing the company the same amount of Bitcoins
2. The board members decide an interest rate for my debt, then make the corresponding motion, if not passed, iterate.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

It's my management fault to keep the rest of the funds within GLBSE and trust it like trusting our company's bank account. The shareholders of ASICMINER should not take the consequences.
it is not because a corner store owner didn't install cameras that he should be held responsible for theft. As I see it, this is not a management failure. You used the tools at your disposition and it didn't turn out well. Every shareholder takes responsibility for success or failure, that's usually how it works. I think at least if it comes to that point a motion could be raised to gauge the shareholders feeling about who's accountable for the loses if it really comes to that point. I know its not conventional, but that's my opinion on the matter. But nonetheless, let's only talk about a problem once we know its a problem I guess.
niko
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742


There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.


View Profile
October 09, 2012, 06:40:26 PM
 #700

I second what matauc12 said above. You could have moved the remaining coins from glbse into your local client. If your computer got hacked and these coins stolen, then by your logic you should be held responsible for not keeping coins on glbse. It doesn't make sense. All we know is, the funds are currently held hostage due to unknown, possibly legal, issues in glbse, and due to interpersonal issues in their management. Let's wait for more information before discussing options.

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 [35] 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 ... 1348 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!