* You have 300 BTC and deposit it in a bitcoin bank
* they keep 30 on reserve and loan out 270 BTC
* this 270 ends up at another BTC bank
* they keep 27 and loan out the rest, ...
There will be fractional reserve banking. However, the point is you don't have to participate. Everyone has their own bank, their bitcoin account. The idea the economy needs debt to function is just propaganda of the debtors, politicians, and banks. No, that's History. No debt, no economy, no labor division, no collectivism. Instead of that, you'll find self-sufficiency of self-sufficient communities beyond any business, state and debt. In fact the country would be much better off with no debt. Yes, but no debt means no money, no economy, no business: self-sufficiency! |
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Government enforced the evolution of homo erectus to homo sapiens. The end.  No, government enforced the evolution of homo sapiens to homo oeconomicus collectivisticus idioticus, a cartoon of the homo sapiens, who lived in self-sufficient communities without any business. |
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you could argue though that self-sufficiency doesn't scale.
Or that top-down structures and hierarchies in human history had an evolutionary advantage after all.
People do like exotic goods after all which the kings and rulers indirectly provided when they issued currency which enabled trade along the (ancient) Silk Road.
So, not every invention by kings and rulers was bad.
Not every invention by Hinkel was bad. That's not an argument. All in all, a collectivist system is growing rampant per se and destructing the planet. Some satisfied real demand. Money seems to belong into this category. Money is a tool to organize division of labor on a grand scale. It is a tool to pay taxes (protection money) to the state mafia. To organize division of labor is a subordinated function.
Recognizing that fact, Bitcoin may be the first currency not issued by an authority, and the first without force behind it (to the gold bugs: no, gold was never free, was always mined on territory of rulers and thus initially belonged to them).
Bitcoin is a liquid asset. No state - no need for liquid assets. |
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Okay zarathustra, I'm going to play along.
Lets say there is no military or police to protect people's property, no foreign threat and everyone has a cow, a bull, a pair of chicken and seeds to start off their self sufficient lives.
What happens next.
As soon as some people started to enslave animals and to treat them as a property, they startet to enslave humans and treat them as a property as well. It is the same, and therefore the same problem: Submissive, violent and slavish moral. As long as a majority of the citizens and consumers accept this kind of 'human' being, as long they will have organised violence against themselves and against others. You made no single mention to money (I guess this is not your subject after all). As I said already: Money is debt and has never ever been something different. The first debt is the tax and all other money (debt) arises as a derivative of this first debt, the tax. Never ever any money (debt) came into existence in a free territory beyond the state. Nobody needs money there, because they are not taxed. They are self-sufficient. |
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Please consider the following problem. Let us imagine three owners A, B, and C of commodities x, y, and z, respectively, of whom A wants y, B wants z, and C wants x.
How would you make that exchange possible? In a stateless community, you won't find 3 different owners of commodities. |
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Okay zarathustra, I'm going to play along.
Lets say there is no military or police to protect people's property, no foreign threat and everyone has a cow, a bull, a pair of chicken and seeds to start off their self sufficient lives.
What happens next.
As soon as some people started to enslave animals and to treat them as a property, they startet to enslave humans and treat them as a property as well. It is the same, and therefore the same problem: Submissive, violent and slavish moral. As long as a majority of the citizens and consumers accept this kind of 'human' being, as long they will have organised violence against themselves and against others. |
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Organized violence (complicity of priests and militant chieftains - aka patriarchy and state) was established 10'000 years ago. That startet collectivism, market, money etc. and ended the anarchy, the self-sufficiency of mankind.
Money originates from the problems presented by direct exchange, as I already showed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298681.msg3203857#msg3203857. Although a private group can partially control it, money originates from the market. You are 'showing' science fiction. Visit the self-sufficient, stateless communities in the rainforest and ask about money. No tax - no money (contract debt), which is a derivative of the tax (enforced debt), which is a derivative of the weapon. The communities to which you refer hardly have any need for money. As I showed before (please read this: http://omniequivalence.com/money-as-multiequivalence/), money arises from a concrete need, namely to make possible for different owners of different commodities to exchange them no matter in which configuration (one situation in which money has historically arisen was in exchanges between different communities). Yes, of course do the stateless communities not have any need for money. This need arises as soon as the communities are being confiscated by militarists and priests (aka the state mafia) and enforced to pay tax (protection money). Patriarchy = state mafia, citizens (protection money paying slaves), business, markets, organized violence. Anarchy = self-sufficiency of humans |
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Organized violence (complicity of priests and militant chieftains - aka patriarchy and state) was established 10'000 years ago. That startet collectivism, market, money etc. and ended the anarchy, the self-sufficiency of mankind.
Money originates from the problems presented by direct exchange, as I already showed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=298681.msg3203857#msg3203857. Although a private group can partially control it, money originates from the market. You are 'showing' science fiction. Visit the self-sufficient, stateless communities in the rainforest and ask about money. No tax - no money (contract debt), which is a derivative of the tax (enforced debt), which is a derivative of the weapon. |
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You are putting the cart before the horse. Money is a product substitute to make commerce easier. Those immovable stones enabled single product transactions by representing a product on one side of the exchange. With many food products it is rare to find a buyer with the exact item the seller needs. That is why the concept of money developed - to resolve the product matching problem.
As the Graeber book explains, the product matching problem only exists in an economist's imagination. A much better explanation for why money was developed is that it solves the problem of a state procuring supplies for its army. It works like this: if a state has an army, it also needs to feed and clothe that army. Without a currency, it would require an additional army just to procure the food and clothes for the first army. To solve this problem, the King issues coins to its soldiers, and then mandates that every peasant pays one coin back to the King as a tax. Through such a coinage, the King has created the workforce needed to supply food and clothes for his Army. Money originates from social interaction: it does not originate individually, within the head of a king, no matter how clever. No, money originates from organized violence. Organized violence (state and church, militarism and patriarchal religion) indebted the people with a tax. This started the economy, the market and the money, which is a derivative of owed taxes. No state - no market - no collectivism and instead of it we find the self-sufficient communities. These are the historic facts. A barter economy beyond the state (organized violence) is Science Fiction. In the rainforest, where organized violence (state and church) is absent, you won't find a market/economy. You'll find self-sufficient communities beyond any business. Money is much older than the state or the church. Just do a little research. No, it is not. Organized violence (complicity of priests and militant chieftains - aka patriarchy and state) was established 10'000 years ago. That startet collectivism, market, money etc. and ended the anarchy, the self-sufficiency of mankind. |
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You are putting the cart before the horse. Money is a product substitute to make commerce easier. Those immovable stones enabled single product transactions by representing a product on one side of the exchange. With many food products it is rare to find a buyer with the exact item the seller needs. That is why the concept of money developed - to resolve the product matching problem.
As the Graeber book explains, the product matching problem only exists in an economist's imagination. A much better explanation for why money was developed is that it solves the problem of a state procuring supplies for its army. It works like this: if a state has an army, it also needs to feed and clothe that army. Without a currency, it would require an additional army just to procure the food and clothes for the first army. To solve this problem, the King issues coins to its soldiers, and then mandates that every peasant pays one coin back to the King as a tax. Through such a coinage, the King has created the workforce needed to supply food and clothes for his Army. Money originates from social interaction: it does not originate individually, within the head of a king, no matter how clever. No, money originates from organized violence. Organized violence (state and church, militarism and patriarchal religion) indebted the people with a tax. This started the economy, the market and the money, which is a derivative of owed taxes. No state - no market - no collectivism and instead of it we find the self-sufficient communities. These are the historic facts. A barter economy beyond the state (organized violence) is Science Fiction. In the rainforest, where organized violence (state and church) is absent, you won't find a market/economy. You'll find self-sufficient communities beyond any business. |
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Graeber is right. Debt is the only real money. All other goods are assets and valued in debt.
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I watched this recently too. However, I think the gold-bugs are going to get a shock when the current fiat systems melt down. It will be cryptocurrency which replaces fiat, and gold will slowly become a commodity metal like platinum and silver are mostly already.
There are 5 stages, and the pictures show that there won't be any business and Gold/Gold 2.0 at stage 5: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Course_of_EmpireAt stage 5, civilization (collectivism), state, religion and therefore money and business is disappearing. It's the rebirth of Self-sufficiency. |
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 based on 'weekly weighted close' |
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"Anarchy" means "without rulers".
Yes, that's why the history of humankind knows of only one type of anarchic organisation: it is the self-sufficient, non-patriarchal, matrilineal organised nuclear community beyond the state, the church and the market. |
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In Japan we discussed with the FSA ( http://www.fsa.go.jp/ ) and were told that our activity is fine as it is now. We are also working with authorities in Europe and US to ensure our activity is in line with local regulations.Bullshit. Oh and problems with banks? Seems to be a persistent excuse from Karpeles. We are currently experiencing delays on EUR transfers of up to two weeks for larger transfers because of the daily limits imposed by our bank in Europe. We are currently negotiating larger limits with this bank and hope to be able to finally be back to regular delays by April.
Wow, those are some really long negotiations. Must be the incompetence of a large multinational bank right? Definitely not Mt.Gox. Yes, others (Bitcoin.de / Bitstamp) are able to negotiate with banks. Gox is not. Check the 'actual' 'informations' on the website of this company, the 'news feed' and the support page and you know immediately what kind of business they are doing. The information policy is clearly misleading the old and potential new customers as well and therefore criminal. Nevertheless, the pawlow'ian zombies here are not only defending this criminal behavior, they are pushing it. Very bad for bitcoin. A currency with such friends doesn't need enemies. |
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I guess they'll keep trolling and promote this kind of business, endlessly until the end, regardless of what's happening there. Welcome to Mt.Gox Customer Service!
Stay updated with announcementshttps://support.mtgox.com/home |
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I will try to withdraw ~500€, but I don't think it's solved. Otherwise the price would be equal on the exchanges already.
Never underestimate the power of trolls on the internet. Yes. All that has to be said about this Zombie company and its Zombie followers and pushers is this: It's sickening how unprofessional Gox is. When you have millions of people's dollars in limbo, you should be posting an update every single day, as well as a clear warning on their site of the current situation for new investors.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278785.msg2977631#msg2977631Here we see criminal business behavior and its promoters. |
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This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.
In the future, in a crypto economy, there won't be taxes. Well, maybe for knuckle dragging cromags who need other people to tell them how to live their lives there will be taxes. For those of us who can handle freedom, there will be no taxes
No taxes - no state. No state - no economy, but self-sufficiency of communities within Dunbar's Numbers. There are still some of them in the arctic and rainforest territories. They need neither gold nor gold 2.0. |
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Today is a high volume day. Biggest volume at BitStamp since more than 5 weeks, but today BitStamp is not far behind Gox. (24k / 29k)
The times they are a changin ...
Yep, it's the smart money doing arbitrage. Difference between MtGox and Bitstamp is back below 10% now: Some whales left the junk exchange and therefore the buying pressure is diminishing for a while. An you still don't understand arbitrage. To move money into junk bonds and back into high grade bonds is as less arbitrage as to move money between junk exchanges and real exchanges. It is speculation. Your volume for MtGox is too low, btw. You only counted USD volume. Add almost 4k EUR trades, almost 1.8k JPY trades, and more than 2k in other currencies.
I always count the same to follow the decline of gox market share. |
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