Besides facts stated above, I shall also restate the fact that 30-day trading volume (easily verifiable, e.g. from bitcoincharts.com/markets) adds up to ~2 million coins. In the same period, 108 000 coins were mined - due to ASIC pressure and resulting serial increases in the difficulty, there was some time compression, let's say 115 000 coins. This is less than 6% of the coins traded in public exchanges. If you decide to ignore the fact of cross-currency arbitrage, and only look at the USD trades, we are still at ~10% of the overall trade. What miners get and what they do with it is insignificant in this market.
No, it's not insignificant. In the FOREX Market, the additionally printed US-Dollars are less than 6% of the traded volumes in public exchanges. Therefore you would argue, that printing USD doesn't matter and is insignificant in the market. Such an argument is BS. |
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... I'm gonna just relate to anarchism from now on, since anarcho-capitalism as most of us (and I say this but I have no idea if I'm the only one who actually thinks this way) know it, isn't actually very related to real capitalism. Actually? Anarcho-Capitalism has never been related to reality. It is science fiction, written by aristocratic elitists in Vienna. |
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FTFY A Society is not like an organism. A Citizen is not a human. A blood related nuclear Community is a (self-sufficient) organism. Society Collective Insanity is cancer, collectivism; and all economic interaction (socialist or capitalist) within this tumour is abnormal, dysfunctional parasitic behavior and never ever not yet anarchistic.
herzmeister's metaphor is a good one, the universe like a fractal has a structure and through evolution we can see how single celled organisms cooperated to form multi cellular organisms and those sells specialised to form organs and became interdependent, all the while competing chaotically in balance with the evolution of everything else including the parasites. It is only through corporation, not predefined rules (or religious dogma) that higher states of conscious being can be reached. An organism is an organism and a tumour is a tumour. A blood related Community is an organism and a Society is a parasitic tumour. It is determined to collapse as soon as the host will be sucked empty. Society is collective stupidity/disease of brainwashed moral cowards, a destructive and self-destroying evolutionary cul-de-sac. Best regards |
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basically, property rights and non-aggression principle my ass.
Land and property historically has always been the source of conflict, which is quite logical, due to the pressure of expansion.
If you see society as a (micro-) organism, like a (bacterial) culture, which is multiplying and expanding within limited space, you'll realize there is no fixed property that a cell can claim, or that it can expect to be protected in a free or even just cheap way.
A Society is not an organism. A Citizen is not a human. A blood related nuclear Community is a (self-sufficient) organism. Society is cancer, collectivism; and all economic interaction (socialist or capitalist) within this tumour is abnormal, dysfunctional behavior and never ever anarchistic. |
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This thread is ultra depressing.  Even if the natural course of things has shown us that the powers that be are corrupt, can't we replace them with others that are honest? At some point "society" will start again, regardless of how much doom and gloom takes place, so I suppose my question is, do we really have to just give up entirely? Can't we just replace the trust using Bitcoin? There are plenty of people here on the forums I could say I "trust", and we even have a system for recording it, too. Even if the elite aren't worth saving, isn't society itself worth it? The functional nuclear communities have been replaced by the dysfunctional society (collectivism/organised violence). Why should it be worth saving? The society itself is the problem and therefore the overcoming of it is the solution. It's that simple. The End of the Citizen (who is a cartoon of the human) is the rebirth of the real human. |
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We should abandon the society.
Why haven't you done this? He is waiting for We. To be honest there is no where left to go so the only option is to fix it. Yes, you can't do this alone. Selfsufficiency beyond the state is forbidden. The truing of the children by the state mafia is mandatory. well, you could send your kids to private school, or even home school them. No, in Switzerland, you can't. And if, the rules for homeschooling (brain washing) are given by the state mafia. Yes, if one is self sufficient, why would it matter what the state forbids?
The Amish have a different model, but they seem to be getting along alright.
1) The Amish are paying taxes to the state mafia. 2) The Amish have a state whithin a state (mafia within a mafia). Therefore, they are paying taxes (protection money) twice. 3) It's patriarchy (church and state). They do not live within Dunbar's Number, but within perverted monogamous pairing families, as all civilized 'humans' have to 'live' (except some civilized populace in perverted harem families). The other question that comes to mind. Why is Z. alone in this? Isn't there likely a Dunbar number of folks that would join? Why all the waiting and complaining? If it is right and better, make it so, and others will recognize that.
Selfsufficient communities within Dunbar's Number are always nuclear, related by blood. But the civilizing of the homines sapientes destroyed these nuclear communities and replaced them with a Society (organised violence). To rebuild them would be a long, painfull process. Even in this forum you'll find collectivists only: trade-collectivists (homo oeconomicus), education-collectivists, progress-collectivists, capital-collectivists etc., but zero people who are interested in freedom and selfsufficiency. |
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We should abandon the society.
Why haven't you done this? He is waiting for We. To be honest there is no where left to go so the only option is to fix it. Yes, you can't do this alone. Selfsufficiency beyond the state is forbidden. The truing of the children by the state mafia is mandatory. |
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Anarcho-Capitalists of the strict Rothbardian stripe can be bad, but minarchists take the cake. Minarchism is just a weird transitional phase people go through. Even Ron Paul isn't a minarchist.
All flavors of statism are ridiculous.
Yes, especially the anarchocapitalist one. Tribes are selfsufficient. |
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Bitcoin has the potential to be a tool for creative destruction of debt and therefore for the destruction of the whole economy and society, which was based on debt from the beginning. No debt - no economy. No society - no economy.
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Happy, non-self-suffient slaves who believe to be free. This is the tragedy of this first collectivist epoch in the history of mankind (pyrozen) that began about 10'000 years ago and is ending now.
I have seen a few aspects of your past arguments that I didn't find coherent, but before judging anything I thought I would like you to explain the above quote as I see some ideas in there I don't understand. thanks. It means that the first collectivist epoch (Pyrocene - the last 10'000 years) in the history of mankind is a tragedy, which is based on the institutionally brainwashed happy slaves who gave up their historic self-sufficiency in exchange to a 'life' as a divided slave worker within an unnatural construction of a monogamous pairing family, which they call a free life, while it is in fact an existence as a dependent dependant. Can you describe how you believe your ideal society should lice? What exactly do we need to abandon, and change to be like what you think we should be like? We should abandon the society. |
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Happy, non-self-suffient slaves who believe to be free. This is the tragedy of this first collectivist epoch in the history of mankind (pyrozen) that began about 10'000 years ago and is ending now.
I have seen a few aspects of your past arguments that I didn't find coherent, but before judging anything I thought I would like you to explain the above quote as I see some ideas in there I don't understand. thanks. It means that the first collectivist epoch (Pyrocene - the last 10'000 years) in the history of mankind is a tragedy, which is based on the institutionally brainwashed happy slaves who gave up their historic self-sufficiency in exchange to a 'life' as a divided slave worker within an unnatural construction of a monogamous pairing family, which they call a free life, while it is in fact an existence as a dependent dependant. |
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We produce extra in order to consume. We don't produce extra because some state is compelling us too, that's ridiculous.
And the reason we can produce so much more than a tribal person is because we have so much more investment and capital goods multiplying the effectiveness of our work.
Ahistoric Science Fiction. Fairytales. Hardly. It's completely historical. It represents the transition from hunter-gatherer societies which invested and produced nothing, to farming communities which advanced culturally, societally, Yes, they advanced societally! Anarchist, self-sufficient communities within Dunbar's Number became patriarchal societies, which is collectivism beyond Dunbar's Number. Animal farming and men farming on the ground of organised violence. Humans became citizens. A human and a cow can only be farmed, if they are forced to or fully brainwashed, as the farmed capitalists here amazingly demonstrate. Happy, non-self-suffient slaves who believe to be free. This is the tragedy of this first collectivist epoch in the history of mankind (pyrozen) that began about 10'000 years ago and is ending now. |
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Meh, let Zarathustra believe. He may even be right that tribal "natural" societies had no capital growth, and capitalism was a recent invention. He may even be right in saying that capitalism is a product of human collectivization,... Congratulations! Finally you realize it, while other collectivists here still believe in division of laber to be something non-collectivist, anarchistic, by telling aristocratic fairytales. ... if by "collectivization" he simply means "humans willing to work and trade together." But so what?
Humans are not willing to work and trade together. Humans are self-sufficient, Citizens are not self-sufficient and are therefore forced to work and trade with aliens and enemies. But a Citizen is not a human; it is a cartoon of a human. Things are a hell out a lot better now than they were when we were all stuck in forests. And there is no harm, or effect, of beliefs like his.
That's an anthropocentric, criminal, socialist-capitalist-collectivist world view, that the great extinction is a lot better than an anarchist, sustainable, non-collectivist life beyond collectivism (business). That shows how crazy, morderous and suicidal the capitalist religion in fact is. |
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Zarathustra is a true believer. He doesn't come here and make his statements because he needs to convince himself, he comes here because he thinks it's his duty to convince you. I recommend use of the ignore button to the left.
Yes, that's the difference. Moonshadow is somebody who believes that he is writing to convince himself instead of others. So funny. |
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We produce extra in order to consume. We don't produce extra because some state is compelling us too, that's ridiculous.
...
The state supports capitalism/consumerism/whatever the hell you want to call this ridiculously wasteful system we live in that has developed things like built in obsolescence to create markets through wastage. Exactly, within communities beyond the state, there has never been such a ridiculously wasteful system, which produces growing surpluses with mountains of accumulated material. "Essentially, the economy is an engine that transforms resources into waste." http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7924 |
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We produce extra in order to consume. We don't produce extra because some state is compelling us too, that's ridiculous.
And the reason we can produce so much more than a tribal person is because we have so much more investment and capital goods multiplying the effectiveness of our work.
Ahistoric Science Fiction. Fairytales. The reason, why a tribal person does not 'invest', does not produce surpluses and does not grow economically, is the absence of the state and the absence of collectivism. Not a single stateless community in the whole history of mankind did ever invest in capital goods multiplying the effectiveness of our work. And therefore, the stateless communities are economically the same as they have been thousands of years ago. Zero growth. The difference between the tribalist and the modern worker is capital goods and investment. Exactly. The collectivist worker is working with capital goods and investment! Thanks for disproving yourself! This collectivist investment story with capital goods began with the neolitic revolution: the patri archal collectivisation of the animals and after that the collectivisation of the former anarchist human. Via animal farming to men farming. Investment and capital goods can and do exist without the state, as long as rights protection and dispute resolution remain, which they can. Fairytales, written by aristocratic collectivists in Vienna, whitout any anthropological knowledge of the pre-patriarchal (non-collectivist) epoch. The real world is different. In the real world, there has never been an economy with growing investment and capital goods beyond a paternalised collectivist society. And that is still the case today. No state, no economy. |
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