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1581  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: With ASICs on the horizon should DigiByte switch algorithms? on: March 23, 2014, 12:02:18 AM
Voting for x-11
GPU's are cooler, very hard for asics.
Does x-11 work with CGMiner? Or is there special mining software required?
1582  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: With ASICs on the horizon should DigiByte switch algorithms? on: March 23, 2014, 12:01:44 AM
Undecided, because I'll accept any change which can help to rise the price and nothing more. BTW, It's simple to switch to Scrypt-N, but keccak (from maxcoin) will keep rigs cold, summer is coming.
Yes, cooling and electrical savings could be a huge selling point. We are trying to work out the summer cooling issue for our miners as well.

We are looking at potentially modifying Scrypt-N, maybe calling it Scrypt-D or even DigiScrypt?

I don't think it's wise. Scrypt-N already well known, tested, accepted by miners. It's good enough to fight ASICs. Necessary and sufficient.
WTB, sgminer will support scrypt-n out of the box soon.


Very good point Sammy, having mining software that works is important!
1583  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 23, 2014, 12:00:28 AM
With all the talk going around about a potential deletion or ban of the Alt Coin section on BitcoinTalk it is very important for you to join DigiByte on other social media sites so we can keep the community together!

Our goal is to reach over 1,000 followers on the following social media sites by next week! Share DigiByte with everyone you know and lets keep DigiByte growing! We should get listed on Cryptsy very soon!








DigiShield

Shielding your DigiBytes from multi-pool inflation!

1584  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: With ASICs on the horizon should DigiByte switch algorithms? on: March 22, 2014, 11:44:18 PM
Undecided, because I'll accept any change which can help to rise the price and nothing more. BTW, It's simple to switch to Scrypt-N, but keccak (from maxcoin) will keep rigs cold, summer is coming.
Yes, cooling and electrical savings could be a huge selling point. We are trying to work out the summer cooling issue for our miners as well.

We are looking at potentially modifying Scrypt-N, maybe calling it Scrypt-D or even DigiScrypt?
1585  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 11:40:42 PM
X11 is awesome.. less electricity and heat.
Is that an ASIC?

+1 X11. MY gpus run so much cooler and conserve so much electricity.
Thank you for the feedback, we will test it out!
1586  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: With ASICs on the horizon should DigiByte switch algorithms? on: March 22, 2014, 11:33:32 PM
Don't you think it is actually good that scrypt asics are coming? This can only make your network more secure, if you manage to maintain a high hashrate that is.
We have thought about this and we do see some positives to this in the long run. Securing the block chain is very important. We wanted to open this up to the community and see what everyone's consensus was on this.
1587  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 11:30:48 PM
Should DigiByte switch to a more ASIC proof algorithm? Vote here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526802.0
1588  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / With ASICs on the horizon should DigiByte switch algorithms? on: March 22, 2014, 11:27:48 PM
With all the recent Scrypt ASIC news we are strongly considering switching DigiByte to a more ASIC resistant algorithm to ensure a more fair mining opportunity for everyone. Our goal since day one is to make sure there is not centralization of hashing power or technology with DigiByte.

Please explain the reason for your vote and if you voted yes please list and provide a link to the algorithm you support.

Also, if anyone has any case studies of a coin hard forking and switching algorithms please post a link.
1589  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: What is DigiShield & How it Works to Retarget Difficulty on: March 22, 2014, 11:15:23 PM
We also would like to hear if anyone has any ideas on how to improve upon this!
1590  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 10:44:51 PM
Thank you! Smiley
1591  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 10:31:02 PM
Make sure to use the promo code "digibyte" if you register for the crypto currency convention in New York on April 9th!

http://cryptocurrencyconvention.com/
1592  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 10:19:28 PM
We also just posted the DigiShield explanation here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526721.0

So if you have questions about DigiShield please post it there.
1593  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: What is DigiShield & How it Works to Retarget Difficulty on: March 22, 2014, 10:17:30 PM
Feel free to ask us any questions you may have here on this thread.
1594  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / ★★ DigiByte ★★ What is DigiShield & How it Works to Retarget Difficulty on: March 22, 2014, 10:10:41 PM
What is DigiShield & How it Works to Retarget Difficulty

After receiving countless messages asking us what exactly DigiShield is we decided to write a post and explain everything in greater detail.

DigiShield re-targets a coin’s difficulty to protect against multi-pools and an over-inflation of easily mined new coins. DigiShield was originally developed for DigiByte, but has since been implemented into Dogecoin and will soon be implemented into more coins.  DigiShield re-targets a coin’s difficulty between every block or in the case of DigiByte & Dogecoin, every 60 seconds.

We created DigiShield after seeing the threat that multi-pools pose to a crypto currency when they start mining a coin at a very low difficulty in relation to their net pool hash. This allows many coins to be quickly and easily mined before the difficulty increases. Once the difficulty increases the multi-pool leaves a coin, dumps the coins on the market, and then leaves the dedicated existing miners with a very high difficulty and very few new coins to be mined.  This leads to a drop in price and frustration among the committed community members  & miners of the affected coin.
DigiShield protects DigiByte against this threat and helps ensure greater confidence in any coin that implements it by allowing the difficulty to rise and fall almost perfectly in sync with increases or decreases in the net hash of a coin.  The secret to DigiShield is an asymmetrical approach to difficulty re-targeting. With DigiShield, the difficulty is allowed to decrease in larger movements than it is allowed to increase from block to block. This keeps a blockchain from getting "stuck" i.e., not finding the next block for several hours following a major drop in the net hash of coin. It is all a balancing act. You need to allow the difficulty to increase enough between blocks to catch up to a sudden spike in net hash, but not enough to accidentally send the difficulty sky high when two miners get lucky and find blocks back to back. The same thing occurs with difficulty decreases. Since it takes much longer to find the next block, you need to allow it to drop quicker than it increases.

The KGW (Kimoto Gravity Well) and Earthcoin approaches to difficulty re-targeting are not as effective as DigiShield in protecting against multi-pools.  We conducted extensive testing over a five day period and found that an asymmetrical approach was much more effective than the KGW approach. We found that the difficulty needed to be able to decrease by a larger magnitude than it was allowed to increase. When the difficulty was allowed to increase or decrease at the same rate with larger orders of magnitude, some very bad oscillations occurred along with some crazy high difficulties when two lucky blocks were found quickly back to back. The asymmetrical adjustments keep the difficulty from going too high too fast, but allow it to drop much quicker after a large hash down swing as it takes a much longer time to discover the next two blocks for the difficulty adjustment to occur.

Both the KGW and Earthcoin approaches to difficulty re-targeting still allow multi-pools a few minutes of easy mining.  For example, Earthcoin still gets hit my multi-pools for 11-12 minutes at time. Both approaches limit the amount the difficulty is allowed to change between blocks, which can become a big issue when a sudden hash decrease occurs.  While simulating a sudden 10-20 fold hash decrease, KGW can become "stuck" for several hours before the next few blocks are discovered and the difficulty evens out again.  The same issue exists with the Earthcoin approach.  It can get "stuck" for 20-40 minutes following an 11 minute hash increase from a multi-pool attack.  We know a 10-20 fold hash increase is unusual, but it is possible, especially as cryptocurrencies become better known.  More than likely, we will only ever see more than a 5-10 fold increase.  Nonetheless, we wanted to develop something that protected against even the most unlikely of hash jumps to ensure that we could handle sudden extremes very quickly.  

In summary DigiShield is a balanced asymmetrical approach to difficulty re-targeting. You don't want to let the difficulty go too high too fast, but you need to give it enough room to catch up quickly. The same thing goes with down swings, since it takes longer to discover new blocks you need to give it more room to go down, but not enough to send it to the floor. DigiShield is by no means the absolute "perfect" solution to the multi pool/ difficulty problem, but after testing dozens of different setups over a five day period including KGW and the Earthcoin approach, the current ratios/ settings in DigiShield out performed any other solution available at the moment.

The DigiShield code can be found here between lines 833 & 1007:
https://github.com/digibyte/DigiByteProject/blob/master/src/main.cpp

Take a look at the Dogecoin difficulty chart:
 http://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dogecoin-difficulty-chart.  
You can see how multi-pools have really been mining most of the coins and leaving the dedicated Doge miners to pick up the slack and get the short end of the stick when it comes to new coins. You can also see when DigiShield took effect and that no longer occurs.

Now take a look at the chart for DigiByte:
http://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/digibyte-difficulty-chart.  
You can see how we would get "stuck" after a multi pool left us and it would take several hours more than our 2.4 hour re-target before the difficulty came back down. Had we not implemented DigiShield when we were hit with the 1 GH - 8GH increase we might have been "stuck" for a day or more. See how quickly the pool hit us and left, and more importantly see how fast the difficulty decreased back to normal levels?  Since DigiShield went into effect, you can see how quickly multi-pools hit us and leave, whereby they mine considerably less coins now, upwards of 50-80% less.


Main DigiByte Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=408268.0

1595  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 10:06:44 PM
What is DigiShield & How it Works to Retarget Difficulty

After receiving countless messages asking us what exactly DigiShield is we decided to write a post and explain everything in greater detail.

DigiShield re-targets a coin’s difficulty to protect against multi-pools and an over-inflation of easily mined new coins. DigiShield was originally developed for DigiByte, but has since been implemented into Dogecoin and will soon be implemented into more coins.  DigiShield re-targets a coin’s difficulty between every block or in the case of DigiByte & Dogecoin, every 60 seconds.

We created DigiShield after seeing the threat that multi-pools pose to a crypto currency when they start mining a coin at a very low difficulty in relation to their net pool hash. This allows many coins to be quickly and easily mined before the difficulty increases. Once the difficulty increases the multi-pool leaves a coin, dumps the coins on the market, and then leaves the dedicated existing miners with a very high difficulty and very few new coins to be mined.  This leads to a drop in price and frustration among the committed community members  & miners of the affected coin.
DigiShield protects DigiByte against this threat and helps ensure greater confidence in any coin that implements it by allowing the difficulty to rise and fall almost perfectly in sync with increases or decreases in the net hash of a coin.  The secret to DigiShield is an asymmetrical approach to difficulty re-targeting. With DigiShield, the difficulty is allowed to decrease in larger movements than it is allowed to increase from block to block. This keeps a blockchain from getting "stuck" i.e., not finding the next block for several hours following a major drop in the net hash of coin. It is all a balancing act. You need to allow the difficulty to increase enough between blocks to catch up to a sudden spike in net hash, but not enough to accidentally send the difficulty sky high when two miners get lucky and find blocks back to back. The same thing occurs with difficulty decreases. Since it takes much longer to find the next block, you need to allow it to drop quicker than it increases.

The KGW (Kimoto Gravity Well) and Earthcoin approaches to difficulty re-targeting are not as effective as DigiShield in protecting against multi-pools.  We conducted extensive testing over a five day period and found that an asymmetrical approach was much more effective than the KGW approach. We found that the difficulty needed to be able to decrease by a larger magnitude than it was allowed to increase. When the difficulty was allowed to increase or decrease at the same rate with larger orders of magnitude, some very bad oscillations occurred along with some crazy high difficulties when two lucky blocks were found quickly back to back. The asymmetrical adjustments keep the difficulty from going too high too fast, but allow it to drop much quicker after a large hash down swing as it takes a much longer time to discover the next two blocks for the difficulty adjustment to occur.

Both the KGW and Earthcoin approaches to difficulty re-targeting still allow multi-pools a few minutes of easy mining.  For example, Earthcoin still gets hit my multi-pools for 11-12 minutes at time. Both approaches limit the amount the difficulty is allowed to change between blocks, which can become a big issue when a sudden hash decrease occurs.  While simulating a sudden 10-20 fold hash decrease, KGW can become "stuck" for several hours before the next few blocks are discovered and the difficulty evens out again.  The same issue exists with the Earthcoin approach.  It can get "stuck" for 20-40 minutes following an 11 minute hash increase from a multi-pool attack.  We know a 10-20 fold hash increase is unusual, but it is possible, especially as cryptocurrencies become better known.  More than likely, we will only ever see more than a 5-10 fold increase.  Nonetheless, we wanted to develop something that protected against even the most unlikely of hash jumps to ensure that we could handle sudden extremes very quickly.  

In summary DigiShield is a balanced asymmetrical approach to difficulty re-targeting. You don't want to let the difficulty go too high too fast, but you need to give it enough room to catch up quickly. The same thing goes with down swings, since it takes longer to discover new blocks you need to give it more room to go down, but not enough to send it to the floor. DigiShield is by no means the absolute "perfect" solution to the multi pool/ difficulty problem, but after testing dozens of different setups over a five day period including KGW and the Earthcoin approach, the current ratios/ settings in DigiShield out performed any other solution available at the moment.

The DigiShield code can be found here between lines 833 & 1007:
https://github.com/digibyte/DigiByteProject/blob/master/src/main.cpp

Take a look at the Dogecoin difficulty chart:
 http://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dogecoin-difficulty-chart.  
You can see how multi-pools have really been mining most of the coins and leaving the dedicated Doge miners to pick up the slack and get the short end of the stick when it comes to new coins. You can also see when DigiShield took effect and that no longer occurs.

Now take a look at the chart for DigiByte:
http://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/digibyte-difficulty-chart.  
You can see how we would get "stuck" after a multi pool left us and it would take several hours more than our 2.4 hour re-target before the difficulty came back down. Had we not implemented DigiShield when we were hit with the 1 GH - 8GH increase we might have been "stuck" for a day or more. See how quickly the pool hit us and left, and more importantly see how fast the difficulty decreased back to normal levels?  Since DigiShield went into effect, you can see how quickly multi-pools hit us and leave, whereby they mine considerably less coins now, upwards of 50-80% less.

1596  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 07:47:28 PM
X11 is awesome.. less electricity and heat.
Is that an ASIC?

It looks like a new algorithm
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516349.0

Hard to say what I think about the scrypt ASICs.  I think they will destroy some coins for sure.  But coins that have a stable foundation, maybe the large spike in difficulty would aggressively and substantially increase market value.  DigiByte of course would be a contender for the latter. I don't know though about changing algos, I'm on the fence with this one.
Very good points Gazza. We also have thought that since Scrypt ASIC's will not give anywhere near the boost SHA-256 Bitcoin ASICs did it may not be a bad thing and in fact it might help secure the DigiByte blockchain and increase market value as you suggested.
1597  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 07:30:51 PM
Great news! We have ported DigiByte to the updated Bitcoin v0.9 protocol! We are testing it out some more but all appears to be working well!
1598  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 07:03:08 PM
X11 is awesome.. less electricity and heat.
Is that an ASIC?
1599  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 06:50:02 PM


today,  new miner has published.

9999 $ =  (scrypt) 120  M hash/s


i think we must change the scrypt algorithm, and create a new algorithm to save altcoins.

[
    Digisheild VS MultiPool

]


Now,

DigiScrypt VS xxx

We are definitely looking into this and we are thoroughly researching other algorithms. It is highly unlikely this company will deliver by the date they mention, but none the less Scrypt ASICs are around the corner.

Scrypt ASIC's are not going to provide anywhere near the boost Bitcoin ASICS did but they are still going to lead to a centralization in Scrypt hashing as most people cannot afford to purchase $10,000 miners every few months.

Our goal is to keep DigiByte mineable by the average miner. We are looking at other algorithms and potentially may modify one and create our own unique approach.

1600  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ★★ DigiByte ★★ [DGB] ✈ DigiShield ✔ USD/DGB Coming Soon @Prelude.io ✔ on: March 22, 2014, 07:49:35 AM
Wrt AMA, you came across as very professional - very good answers, enjoyed reading, and have even more faith in DGB!
same here!
Thank you for the feedback! We are looking forward to doing another AMA on the main Reddit AMA thread.
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