when it takes years for pooya to see his own contradictions in his own statements.. you got to wonder why it takes soo long

..
yes there are many 'projects' of light/spv/private wallets. but since ~2015-17 there has only been ONE repository centralising and leading the protocol decisions

electrum cant overrule 'reference implementation' decisions. and thats how 'reference implementation' like it

one day he might even read his contradictions and see and learn the difference between a contribution and a request of contribution. especially when you see the same people who get to acknowledge requests. are also the moderators of the other communication area's of development of the 'reference implementation'

note: calling 'reference implementation' by its brand name and given names to lead developers and their other controls. usually gets posts deleted or harrassed by those peoples fanbase.

even though i am a bitcoiner. the 'reference implementation' group dont like to be talked about negatively

a medium of exchange can be anything. .. giving vodka to a friend for helping you mend a car.
a currency is more broader. within a community or nation.

a fiat currency is a government currency set by policy and law

as for the value. its not just a community consensus.
EG a rich person values currency differently than a poor person based on value and values.

but the underlying bottomline value normally has some bases on how much it cost to obtain and how much effort cost to pass on.

you can spot differences in values. in fiat.
take the policy law value.. minimum wage. where government in america thought $7.50 was worth 1 hours labour.
but the nation of america think $15 is worth an hour.

as for bitcoin.
in chaina/iceland. they feel thats ~$25k is worth 1 btc. however in germany. its more like $50k
this is why you see different area's have different values(philosophy) china will always mine cheap and value is less and always profit. so always mine. so when price is $45k they see it as OVER VALUE
where as germany cant afford to mine it so will see that when the price right now is below $50k will see btc as great value to buy.

if it wasnt for egypt and greece. roman empire would not have happened.
but these days no one cares about egypt greece or rome.
these days . rome is a place for pizza . greece is a place for lamb kebabs. and egypt is a place that has pyramids and camels.

you cant just create a civilisation now based on dreams and fantasy and philosophy of past events
the underpinning thing(bitcoin) actually has to have purpose that brings people together today..now.

right now devs are tearing each other apart trying to find new networks to bridge to bitcoin to offramp people away from bitcoin into these other networks. pretending these other networks are bitcoin.
its getting so bad that those pretending they support bitcoin while wanting these offramps then argue that those not wanting offramps are the ones not supporting bitcoin(facepalm) and the ones not supporting the offramps should find themselves another network.. (double facepalm)


its not the golden era anymore. its becoming the other network banking 'note' era.
devs feel we have surpassed the wildwest gold era. where people trade gold personally.

they want us playing with other network tokens/receipts 'pegged' to bitcoin but not actually hold.. confirmed on our key actual bitcoin.

so keep that in mind.
you originally were on that trail a few articles ago but it seems now you are making a tangent in a fantasy direction where you think its still the wildwest of goldbug era..

so lets bring you back to reality.
the current plan devs fore-see is that bitcoin, like gold in the 1900's will be not an currency but an asset locked up in vaults. where people then trade receipts/tokens/promises/bank notes of unconfirmed asset.
and due to the 'weight' of the asset(no coincidence they called it weight in the code). too expensive to then withdraw the asset when swapping the receipts for it. so instead people will be offered alternative less valued but less weighty assets.(altcoins atomic swaps)

so we are at the 1930's-1970's era where gold(bitcoin) is losing its importance. and most are playing with bank notes(pegs) and nickel(altcoins)

so its difficult to create a civilisation around an asset when even the devs involved in bitcoin are moving away from wanting people to use bitcoin personally.

just like how bitcoin makes a block hash. the idea is simple. sha(file) and then compare the hash to known hashs from known porn files.

but here is the thing..

to have access enough to make a hash. they need the file data.. .. every byte.. unencrypted
so to be able to get every byte, they need access inside of peoples supposed encrypted icloud storage

and how do they do this. well unlike your phone. the icloud is THEIR server. their property. and so their terms and conditions of service of people uploading to THEIR storage can be changed with just a update of terms and conditions and then a update of the app that does the uploading to ensure files from peoples phones are not encrypted as they get uploaded to their icloud.

so there are risks that even your normal legal content can be accessed by them.
they 'promise' to only look at files that have been flagged as having the file hashes of known illicit material. but then its a question of. being able to view it all technically. but promising not to.. . means they are then open to being court ordered to look at other files by other agencies for other reasons.

---

the secret to learn is..
you have the freedom to walk.. because feet
you have the freedom to talk.. because mouth

but when it comes to using something branded. whether its a forum. a megaphone, a convention stage. a phone.
your freedoms dont really extend to other peoples property or service.

its like grocery stores. its their business. they can ban you from entering their business if they want. they can ask you to do certain things too, like only buy 2 items. or stay socially distanced. or dont access certain area's
its there service. you have no freedom or rights on someone elses property.

so thinking facebook, this forum. or a icloud is your "right" is the wrong way of thinking. they are extending a courtesy and a condition which they can remove from their service.

never expect privacy on someone elses service/property. but accept their courtesy if they offer it. and if they take that courtesy away.. and you dont like it. find something else.

the only way services learn is from seeing a lack of customers due to a change they make. if they want customers, they will learn how to follow what customers want.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

alot of peoples TA. is not TECHNICAL ANALYSIS
but instead TREND ANAL.

true technical analysis is not about price patterns by looking at the past.
its instead working out what value and supports are in the present.

the trend anals. are not predicting a future.. they are instead trying to become mega influencers to create sheep followers to create a repeating trend. .. this is a form of pump and dump initiative..
its not predicting a future. its an attempt to create the future by trying to get others to follow your trend..

yep if a majority of anals are all folowing the same trend. they create the prophecy and fulfil their prophecy.
if it doesnt work. well it just means they are not much of an influencer or they followed the wrong influencer.

well heres a secret.
most influencers get it wrong. and if one got it right thats just luck of numbers.
if 2 people are influencers X say price down Y says price up.. one of them is going to be right

so the sooner you learn your not gaming the system by doing this silly stuff the better.
stop being a trend anal and start being a technical analyser

a few steps you can take
work out the mining costs of the main trading regions of bitcoin
china/iceland
uk/us
rest of europe
japan/germany

realise there is a philosophy of 'should i mine or buy to acquire bitcoin'
different regions have different cost/value relationships.

use the mining costs to show which regions break even cost/value is to work out the values where people prefer to mine(to sell) vs buy(to hoard)

then look at the UTXO cost of acquisition. and see how many coins sit at which prices when the utxo was created. then you can build up a nice set of value lines where people think value sits at in comparison to the live price.

then you can work out if a price is near these values. or highly speculated above it..

EG januarys $60k was highly speculative and 2-3x above all good value lines. so it was never going to last. it was always going to correct.

knowing this stuff can actually help you realise if a price is good value or over speculated bubble.

a banana never asks for money.
a banana has no value or cost.. what does..
the people farming the banana..

people farm the banana because other people want the banana. its nutritious

bitcoins values(features and benefits) come from its ease of transactability and cheaper to use than gold

bitcoin value(economic) comes from initially the cost of acquiring it. (mining) and then when people buy it from miners. the acquired cost from those buyers who wont sell for less than their cost

same with banana's
a banana costs nothing. but the labour and the effort of the farmers. and then once bought from the farm the labour and effort for the distributors/wholesalers.

everything in life is initially free. its the human cost of getting involved that then puts a value on it.

for bitcoin to have a value. it needs to have values(features and benefits(a utility/need))
if bitcoin became useless to people. then the desires and values will drop. which will impact the value

if no one wants it. then no one will mine it or keep it. it needs to solve a purpose.
so all this talk about offramping utility away from bitcoin into other networks is taking that utility away. making people not want/need to care about onchain transactions thus no need/desire to want to monitor the network. meaning less need to secure the network. and so on and so one

commodities are raw materials mined/grown and processed to create new products.
bitcoin is NOT a commodity and should not be compared.

value and values are 2 different things too.
values are the features and benefits
value is the economic measure


bitcoin value. (economic measure) is currently like

54% cost of mining it at its cheapest location in the world
21% regional adaptive cost/support
   25% speculation/emotion/hype

lets call its VALUE is 75% of price.

as for values
the ease of access and transport and transactability compared to physical assets like gold is a good benefit
the ease of security(private key) is better than a bank safe deposit box
and so many more.

as for 'internet of value'
well back in say 2010-2012 when bitcoin was the sole crypto of any significance. yes it was deemed as the internet of value.

but now there are so many others that its not THE internet of value. but A internet of value now.
many places over the internet are using other networks to move their value.
i personally dislike all the altcoins. altnets and subchains and sidechains and altnets pretending to be bitcoin or pretending to be better then bitcoin.
but the world is, as the world is.. a place where many things have to co-exist. and bitcoin has to compete

im not playing social drama games. your obsession with social drama is what confuses YOU when you see other people write stuff.. you think its all about drama queens because thats your obsession is..
grow up..

anyways..
to all other readers:

people should learn stuff about how politics and how regulations work. for their own learning.

politicians. are not the guys that enforce regulations. thats for things like the SEC and courts. so like i said before, learn the SEC interpretations of a broker. such as learn about MSB. then you will learn how the SEC will enforce the regulations.
how the SEC will register brokers and get them to comply. who the SEC will get to comply, etc

because if this bill passes it wont be a congressman or a senator handling the bureaucracy of it all. its not politicians interpretations that matter. its the SEC's interpretation. as they are the ones that enforce it.

so learn who is going to be doing what. learn what is going to be doing who. then you may start to have some thoughts about what should be amended.. instead of playing ignorant and just wanting to shout that 'goberment are bad men' with memes(facepalm)

because all i can see is people crying "old man made me angwy. mummy hit the bad man' even though they cant even work out what their suppose to be angry about. or who

FACT: old guy in all the memes shown is not going to be the guy heading up the broker registration applications.. so learn who is and what it takes to be a broker..
if you stil dont know.. LEARN then have an opinion. and stop the social drama of having an opinion without learning

again a hint: MSB

while all you lot are pointing fingers and making chidlish means of an old guy politician. you are not learning about what the SEC are going to be interpreting as it will be them that will be doing the actual regulation stuff.
so go learn, and dont waste time making memes

and if over the last 10 days of this topic creation. if you have

• made atleast 5 posts in this topic
• you still dont know words such as 'series 7'.. 'MSB' and how they relate to this topic..
• you have only read the truncated tweet/o_e_l_e_o version of bill

     "any person who (for consideration) is responsible for and regularly provides any service effectuating transfers of digital assets."[missing part tweet/o_e_l_e_o omitted 'for another person']

• yet you DO know about a meme seen on twitter involving an old politician
• whereby you know his name and his age and all that drama..

.. then your research has been wasted in the wrong direction for the last 10 days... probably take a few days away from twitter and reddit and use your time more wisely on better sources of info.

funny part is
its promoted as DEFi
decentralised finance

promoted as a platform without intermediaries...
yet 'it' gets hacked..

we all know places like exchanges get hacked. but bitcoin cant be hacked.
so if these other networks/platforms are being hacked. then people need to learn from this.

dont be too casual about security when dealing with networks that allow custodians, partnerships and multisigs.

sometimes these swapping mechanisms can have backdoors.
seems the 'attacker' was able to sign transactions that moved the funds to their 3 addresses..

so just be cautious about these other networks pretending to be next level security. because you may find out that are less level security

no where in the bill does it mention that nodes, devs or miners will be brokers

and there is too much crying in this topic from people that cant understand anything beyond ELI-5 to understand what the wording actually does say

its almost as stupid as hinting that uber drivers are brokers because they take custody and move around assets(people and packages)
(now await the FUD to start of parcel companies needing to inspect all packages incase they contain private keys. because in these fantasists minds parcel companies and delivery guys should be brokers too(facepalm))

people really need to read proper terminology and stop crying because they dont understand the wording
no bill has ever been wrote in ELI-5. so it needs people to stop crying thats its not wrote eli-5. and put some effort into understanding legalese and actually learn what financial terminology is


its not about random people just seeing accounts/transactions(nodes)
its not about random people just collating accounts/transactions(miners)
its definetly not about random people making software for it(developers)

yes its not about mining pools because mining pools dont actually get deposits or do withdrawals.

its about regularly offering a service to take responsibility of someones funds(custodian)and for a fee administer it to someone else.. its the definition of a MSB
Money Service Business

think more.. western union. and less about your grandma putting money in your birthday card..

..
also lets say in some 5yo's nightmare where their nightmare came true. its not like users are suppose to by law just email the SEC with any transaction they spot over $10k

its actually a case still where businesses offering regular services of deposits and withdrawals on behalf of other people for a fee. where those businesses have to register as a MSB. take some financial qualification, and have a employee that is a compliance guy, create their own policy handbook of how their business will operate to remain compliant.
have that policy handbook approved as meeting the standards of regulation. get licenced
and such.... and then as part of it. report any large movements they handle

once people actually read what it takes to be a broker. they will realise that their nightmares about nodes. miners. devs are just dreams.. .. fantasies in their head. and not what is actually being proposed. because their role/job/hobby/life has nothing to do with that kind of 'handling' of funds

alot of people in this topic spreading fear dont even know what a MSB is and always evade the discussion about MSB's, and try to poke into the fear that every human has to report on each other..

if only they learn about what the requirements are to be an MSB..  they might learn what brokers really are and why their fears are so irrational. and missing the real discussion that should be happening about the bill.

develops node users and miners were never in the red zone of risk..
if people realise that sooner they could ask their senators for actual amendments that would impact those who are at risk even less.
EG. ensuring it only applies to US registered MSB serving only US residents. and not stretching to other country MSB serving US residents. or US MSB serving other countries residents
as not ensuring that can expand US jurisdiction too far outside its borders

..
its like people are crying if this is said
"any person running in the olympics has to have a mandatory drug test every 6 years"
the crying is about the "any person" where now its spreading fud that any runner has to have drug tests..
WRONG
they miss out the crucial parts .. they miss out understanding what it takes to actually qualify for the olympics.
they miss out that it involves only those on the olymplic running track

all because fud "any person" makes it sound bad for everyone (facepalm)

can people try to learn the legalese and actually learn things like MSB and brokers. and stop crying about two words taken out of context "any person"

.. then spend your time learning where this bill can actually impact people

at the moment those holding gold and those mining new gold are both paying over $1k to obtain their gold. and no one if foolish to sell for less then they acquired it for.

if gold suddenly cost $550 to mine. then some large mining groups that can mine millions of ounces of gold could happily sell all their gold down to $600 and still profit.
but along the way lots of buyer would be buying it up causing a resistance. making it difficult to oversupply the markets to cause a stable price drop that lasts

the only real chance in reality for gold to tank. is if the 'space mining' brings back tonnes of gold in 10-20 years and want to sell it down to low prices and enough new supply to outpace the resistance.

it certainly wont tank just because of crypto.

This is both right and wrong. Paper bills in the past are made as a placeholder for when you don't have the gold coins to purchase goods, with paper bills practically meaning that "I owed you this much gold coins with this purchase, you have to trust me that sooner or later I will pay you with its counterpart in gold". Until some time later we find out that we can endow these bills with value themselves and not just use them as placeholders, hence why we call these "banknotes". Now going back, it is quite true that the ones who protect a fiat currency's value is its own government, but what endows it with value is the economy it is backed upon.
[/quote]


pre bank notes there were no money laws.
there was no minimum wage. there was no income tax

the first american income tax came in in 1861 and it was valued in DOLLARS not gold dust
yep bank notes have been around for quite a while.

before that. in the gold era. it was more like service charges not income %

at first it was its legal tender and tax payment laws enforcing fiat be circulated and taxed upon that keeps fiat relevant and important to all commerce


then. the value became based on the sweat labour value of minimum wage as the stabalising factor once dropping the gold standard. which translates to how many [loaves of bread] an hours labour is worth and the value balance there of. of everything compared to fair value of what an hours minimum labour deserves.



to put it short
if retailers in america would usually accept say.. euros.
and be allowed to freely pay employees in euros and their pensions plans in euros and the taxes in euros.. america would not have a powerful dollar.
its due to the laws keeping the dollar relevant for all transactions that keep its value

meanwhile. whilst citizens moan to their representatives about how they feel scared and threatened as a node user and want comforting hugs from representatives telling them they aint going to be part of the group.

actual MSB that are actually going to be pushed into more paperwork and requiring KYC for just atomic swaps and routing(previously unreported). are setting their businesses up outside US jurisdiction. or changing business plan to avoid such services.

the large exchanges love more hurdles and barriers of entry. because they get to be the monopoly of compliance knowing any small business now has even more regulation, so small MSB tend to avoid getting involved and avoid expanding. and end up fizzling out of the custodian sector. meaning less competition for the big boys.

parts of it is about the fact that MSB's need to be compliant. meaning they need a employee thats trained in compliance and pass a regulatory test and also alot of other little bits of bureacratic headache, policy handbooks and licence fee's.

its not a simple 'send an email with a customers name address and value moved'..
its all licences, qualifications, audits. all of which have costs. and if you dont do it the MSB can be liable as a launderer

big business already has this stuff.. but the small businesses just doing crypto-to-crypto are going to see a steep learning curve soon.... very steep
lots of fines and court cases for MSB not walking the thin line of regulation

fiat is not based on pure trust.
its based on laws. such as:
people are paid a minimum wage of X fiat.
people have to pay tax at a % of fiat
the country utilises only certain format of fiat

thats what gives fiat value. the laws

yawn.. obvious.
when the wording said things like
any person who (for consideration) is responsible for [custodian for a fee]
and regularly provides any service [business]
effectuating transfers of digital assets for another person.[MSB]

it was clear that it was never about software developers, node users, miners or retailers
it was always about MSB's

miners, nodes, and software developers dont take custody of peoples funds.[no responsibility]

anyway, while people think the battle is won even though the obvious was always true from the start

now all exchanges and coinjoins and MSB that only handle crypto-crypto have to KYC.
this can be avoided by just registering the business outside of the US and IP ban US usage. much like the tactics of the bitlicence era

and yes this leaves LN payment route hubs in the new MSB category..
not because of any node handling or software usage. but for regularly offering a payment routing of other peoples value for a fee

the article seems to be a "noob hope" article.
its tries to highlight a hope of profitability by explaining step by step everything involved. but the crux is when actually doing it. it ends up unprofitable

the article has too many variables and what is not said is the competition
asic farms that easily set up industrial units.
asic farms that get whole sale prices on next gen asics due to bulk purchase
asic farms actually move to a location of good electric contracts

and lets not forget. the "virgin coins" sold on OTC get the best deals in bulk. so trying to sell 0.0001btc on an OTC wont get you a premium, compared to someone offering 6.25 coin+

so here is a better solution to earn more..
DONT MINE
just have a good internet connection and offer to be a mining pool where others do the work for you. and you take a 1% cut from everyone

yep
imagine it this way
imagine a pool of say 65000 asics dotted around the world.
you can either be one of them asics. getting just 0.000099 every time the pool solves a block
(6.25reward+0.25txfee/65000users-1%pool admin fee)

or. just having good internet and a stratum script. let others do all the work and you get to keep
0.065(all miners 1% pool admin fee added up) plus any mergemine coins

so which is cheaper and easier and less costly.
hobby mining for 0.000099 or being a pool for 0.065

the secret is you dont need your own asics to run a pool. you just have to publicise your pool well to get others to mine for you

well getting marble. or quartz has value. because its not just laying around on the ground for anyone to pick.
there are costs to quarry certain stone and so certain stone has different value due to this.

the more it costs to quarry. the more value it has

if gold was as easy to mine using a spoon and a coffee filter in everyones back yard for ~$2
gold would be selling from spot to speculative high of $2.01-$5

instead because of excavators, labour, diesel and sluice machines. gold sells at spot $900-$2000

bitcoin costs thousands to mine
it costs $~25k in china/iceland to mine.. and over $50k in germany/japan

so right now bitcoin is mid value, good purchase for some regions, as its cheaper to buy than to mine right now

as for the demand side.
well yes less merchants use bitcoin as of 2015. yes bitcoin had more merchants 2012-15 than it does now.
but the general population of users has increased since 2015.
its now moved from a attain bitcoin to buy things. to retain bitcoin to invest/lockup/hoard to then maybe use on other networks as collateral

FTFY

that does not mean bitcoin nodes.. because nodes dont get any 'consideration' (fee) nodes are not even custodians of other peoples assets.

also the "regularly provides any service effectuating transfers"
this does not mean just handling money(retail).. nor does it mean handling data records of transfers(accountants)(databackup)
nor software developers making software for brokers/MSB

and no.. mining pools are not custodians on behalf to 2 parties. they dont take responsibility of peoples funds.
so dont fall down that rabbit hole


it actually then comes back to the common sense of what a broker is. and what a MSB is

it means actually operating a service for the purpose of transfering assets for another person
average joe with a node is not offering a service
a grocery store accepting payment is not offering a money transfer service

businesses classed as MSB are affected
this again is the realm of the big exchanges and coinjoin, escrow services. not a thing to scare bitcoin node users over.


if people poke their senator about irrational 'worse case' stuff. the senator will just think the person poking is irrational and ignore their plea
however if you act rational and poke your senator about rational pleas regarding over reach of laws on MSB's. then you will have a point worth listening to.

in short
if you phone a senator and say 'im just a node user i dont want to report anyone' they will say fine bye.
because thats not what the proposed law is about,

if your an MSB and phone a senator. then yea the conversation will be a bit longer and more worthy

im gonna keep this quote for future reference for other topics. i think doomad can already realise why his words can be used against him. especially when he social dramatises how others that think the worst should just f**k off


in this case, thinking the worse has its limits. because although it does not define what a broker is not. it does define what a broker is. and makes no mention of a broker being a software developer or a customer of a investment company.
leaning on the side of 'if it doesnt mention it assume the worse that its included'. means a banana and a grapefruit can be a broker too.. (famepalm)
its where common sense needs to be added to the context of the document. to then understand it. . and not just pick something thats not mentioned in it and then try to twist it into suggesting that it includes it

in short its about MSB(money service businesses) not the contracted software developer of MSB. not the delivery guy delivering to a MSB, not a customer of a MSB

so again defining what is an MSB would include businesses and associations and organisation that perform transfer, exchange, transact as a service business. not lil old joe paying for a bottle of beer at the local 7-11

its actually about MSB that are brokers.. not grocery stores accepting money for goods.
brokers(companies being custodians and performing trades of investment that require its employees doing the trades to pass the series 7 exam)

now can people stop trying to twist it to make it sound like grocery stores, and grocery store customers are brokers.. because they are not. and the draft bill does not even assume or suggest or hint any such thing that retailers and customers are

so again. dont worry about normal users having to report every time they accept a block(like some are trying to FUD above)

its about services like coinjoin. exchanges, altcoin swaps. (actual businesses offering the service)
so yea try contacting your local reps to get the draft dropped for its real purpose. just dont go running down rabbit holes thinking it actually affects everyone receiving a block of data or buying a coffee

this "flared" gas is the excess stuff they have to release at points of over pressure in the oil collection process.
its not like they just releasing it for the pure hell of it. its the have to release it, or BOOM

its not clean gas that people use in houses.. and the cost to have a gas refinery at every oil rig outweighs the cost of any refined gas being affordable to send down the residential pipeline. so burning it becomes best option

suadi aramco are not going to suddenly make gas refineries/gas powered power plants for the random switch on-off of the over pressure events. .. but if another company wants to give it a shot. they can.

the issues are that the highlight of "flare more gas than half the bitcoin network" sounds massive.. but is not based on 1 oil rig.
its based on thousands of oil rig/pumps/release valves combined around the area. meaning you cant just tap into one pipeline and collect the dirty unrefined gas and convert it to power in one location. it requires lots of refinaries/plants/piping everywhere.
and not a constant supply as the flared gas is only flared when there are over pressure events.

so it will end up costing the third party contracting with aramco alot of set-up investment. either to refine and power generate on site(lots of micro power plants). or transport to a more central location

but hey. if they think they can do it. so be it