It's just a pyramid scheme of
Few of who sell first able to grab your money, Most of who sell late to be the last bag holders and lost everything I think this is just misunderstanding. You can say bitcoin is no good without it being a pyramid scheme. I could buy a load of carrots and find it a bad transaction, either was a bumper harvest and others similarly were able to source enough carrots so we got too much supply or it could just the produce was bad. Even if I was scammed by some front, still not a pyramid Theres no multiplication effect in bitcoin causing it to be a pyramid, the only similar thing might be the online hype effect where knowledge and acceptance of bitcoin was not linear but more exponential but the protocol itself is quite set and regular to stop over supply Bitcoin fits into the definition of Shiller's "naturally occurring ponzi" which is a more or less a behavioral economics explanation of inflating asset bubbles |
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“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."
That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO. Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi? You noob clowns need some new material. Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin Oh rly? Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270. Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  That's purely from speculation not fundamentals Fundamental: Person A buys 100,000 Bitcoin at pennies... Then decides to spend said bitcoins with merchant B who sells goods. Yeah pretty sure the "fundamentals" you speak of are there with Bitcoin. You are just not wanting to see it or are too ignorant to see it.  <---- Take your pick. You're embarrassing yourself. Oh really? lol please show the holes in my argument. You say bitcoin lacks fundamentals and is purely from speculation but I just gave you a simple example of where bitcoin is not purely speculation-used and has fundamental uses going on within the economy/network of bitcoin. Please embarrass me away. The obvious is you don't know what fundamentals mean. |
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“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."
That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO. Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi? You noob clowns need some new material. Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin Oh rly? Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270. Yup can't "grow" into its valuation. Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today? That's purely from speculation not fundamentals Fundamental: Person A buys 100,000 Bitcoin at pennies... Then decides to spend said bitcoins with merchant B who sells goods. Yeah pretty sure the "fundamentals" you speak of are there with Bitcoin. You are just not wanting to see it or are too ignorant to see it. <---- Take your pick. You're embarrassing yourself. |
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“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."
That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO. Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi? You noob clowns need some new material. Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin Oh rly? Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270. Yup can't "grow" into its valuation. Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today? That's purely from speculation not fundamentals. Shiller won the Nobel for his "irrational exuberance" theory. Sorry but you are the idiot here |
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“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."
That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO. Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi? You noob clowns need some new material. Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin |
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^ Lol, I'm afraid your pinup girl just ain't into you, and certainly wouldn't be seen with you in public  " Qestion:
What do you think of the libertarian movement?
Ayn Rand:
All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies who are anarchists instead of leftist collectivists; but anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet libertarians combine capitalism and anarchism. That’s worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. Anarchists are the scum of the intellectual world of the Left, which has given them up. So the Right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the libertarian movement."--Ayn Rand Answers: The Best of Her Q&A, ed. Robert Mayhew To be honest, I'm quite new to Ayn Rand, I'm just now finishing Atlas Shrugged and haven't red anything else yet. But I find myself agreeing to nearly 100% of the message in that book, and lot's of my favorite anarcho-capitalists like Jeff Berwick and Stefan Molyneux like her a lot. I've also heard though, that anarcho-capitalism and objectivism isn't compatible although I haven't explored why yet. What's your take on that, what's the fundamental difference? "Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet libertarians combine capitalism and anarchism." Well, who says there can't be laws in an anarchistic system? Anarchism means "no rulers" which is not the same as no laws. Laws can be privatized, there's whole books written about that. More interestingly, contracts made in the blockchain can be created so they can't be broken. They can be made so if a certain criteria is fullfilled, btc automatically moves from one wallet to another, making law redundant in many cases! The law is in the code and enforces itself! When Ayn Rand was still around, there was no way anybody could have predicted such a revolutionary technology. Maybe she would change her stance if she were alive today. Are you reading what you are writing? Laws are enforced by the state. You can have contracts but it's useless unless it can be enforced. Private judicial system? Yeah right. Good luck trying to sue a mega corporation who fucked you over You don't get it, do you? This is why btc is so cheap, not even people on forums like this understand the true potential. OK, I'll give you an example: person A wants to sell his house to B. They agree upon a price and a smart contract is formed. B transfers the price in btc to a certain wallet where it will be locked in until one of two things can happen: 1: A transfer the ownership of his house to B in the Blockchain which AUTOMATICALLY activates a transfer of the btc from the wallet to A:s personal wallet. OR A fail to transfer the ownership in one week which makes the btc bounce back to B: personal wallet. Another example: Hey company A, I can implement a system that will increase sales with 10% for February. It costs x btc. A smart contract is formed that monitors all the wallets that A uses for sales. If its up more than 10% from previous year, btc is automatically transfered to B for their service. This is technology that already exists, and those contracts can be immensely more conplex. Do you see now how in a btc world, it's not optional to follow contract, the contracts enforces themselves! Would Ayn Rand have had a different attitude towards anarcho-capitalism with access to a tech like that? We will never know. I take it you've never had a mortgage or signed any contracts in your life |
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A lot of the guys saying to hold and wait it out are probably people who paid very little for the bitcoins and therefore can hold and have an incentive for you to hold.
If you paid more than $300 for a bitcoin and continue to watch your investment take losses is far more difficult.
The way I would look at it from an investment standpoint is anybody really convincing me why it should go higher? Why did it get so high in the first place? Why did it take off and go mainstream when it hit $1000 and was in the news every day?
Loss minimizing is also a very important part of investing. If you are taking losses then you should cut them.
In my opinion bitcoin will rise a little from here before the next leg down to $200. But that is just my speculation opinion of course.
I'm surprised too that people here hold positions or add to losing position when trend is clearly bearish. If it was easy to short I'd be short scalping every pop. Also, I can't believe people put real money in a meme like HODL. Cut your losses and ride your winners. Only way to make money trading The problem is because you have many people who paid close to nothing for their bitcoins. If you take the rise from $13 and up, bitcoins were very cheap for the longest time, many people have loads and loads of cheap bitcoins. What you have now is these people convincing other people to buy and hold so they can hopefully cash out at higher prices. It is really sad but it is money after all, everybody is doing what benefits them even though it is a bad investment coming in at these high prices which are sill very unsustainable as it continues to prove. There is really no convincing reason why bitcoin should go higher. I guess many peoples real hope was to get an ETF to get the unsophisticated public to buy into it but it seems the SEC obviously knows it is a scam and isn't going to subject the general public to what looks to be a Ponzi scheme, and also for the fact that bitcoin is inherently insecure and everybody who invests in the ETF can lose their money form just a single person having the correct keys. Look at Mt Gox. You would think that the steady slow drop in price would smarted people up but I guess not, everybody wants to make easy money. Money is not easy to make and buying into bitcoins at this point is a very bad decision as it has already run its course and it's not going to make people rich again. I suspect those early adopters already cashed out. The vocal bulltards saying HODL and cheap coins are ones with underwater positions desperate to break even. They even might be early adopters who sold too soon and kept buying. If you had a profit once you tend to believe it'll happen again. People usually don't think they got lucky and attribute it to some wisdom. If you wait too long to cut losses you allow the losses to get too big, then you become fearful of taking the loss. That's how bag holders are born. |
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Hi everyone.
I see the spreading of a lot of misinformation in the thread referenced above and in these forums - info that is either based on incorrect premises or a misunderstanding about how the financial system works in the United States. I work in the financial investment industry and want to clear things up so that people do not scare you into buying into their own agenda. So what I want to do is debunk some of these misconceptions with facts, not opinions or theories, about how our financial system works in the United States.
So please, ask me anything or tell me why you think the US is "going bankrupt" or the Federal Reserve "prints money" or fiat is dead or petrodollar or the implosion of the dollar, and I will respond. To start things out I can start by saying that the United States is not bankrupt or anything close to it. A nation which can print its own currency, tax output and has no foreign-denominated debt can never go bankrupt. The national debt will never be paid down nor does it need to be and this is not a problem. The government could issue only very short government debt and essentially controls the interest it pays on its own debt, if it were to ever become a problem.
Anyhow, let's hear your doomsday scenarios!
You realize they're all teenagers or twenty somethings in here don't you? Smarmy arrogant kids. I used to have your attitude trying to help folks get better understanding of economics and markets. But now I just entertain myself watching them suffer |
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A lot of the guys saying to hold and wait it out are probably people who paid very little for the bitcoins and therefore can hold and have an incentive for you to hold.
If you paid more than $300 for a bitcoin and continue to watch your investment take losses is far more difficult.
The way I would look at it from an investment standpoint is anybody really convincing me why it should go higher? Why did it get so high in the first place? Why did it take off and go mainstream when it hit $1000 and was in the news every day?
Loss minimizing is also a very important part of investing. If you are taking losses then you should cut them.
In my opinion bitcoin will rise a little from here before the next leg down to $200. But that is just my speculation opinion of course.
I'm surprised too that people here hold positions or add to losing position when trend is clearly bearish. If it was easy to short I'd be short scalping every pop. Also, I can't believe people put real money in a meme like HODL. Cut your losses and ride your winners. Only way to make money trading |
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The next 24 hours will determine the future of crypto currency for the next decade.
Real talk bro. Someone with there head working thank god Is that sarcasm or u really believe in God? We only believe in Satoshi and we have failed Him because of our greed and malice. For He did say: "For the love of the Bitcoin is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." Book of Satoshi: 6:24 Not a cult. Not a cult. Not a cult |
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The USD at least crashes slower
Rebounds slower too. The US dollar actually is the most stable currency in modern finance. By most measures it's price is very stable. Nice FUD. Care to explain? Yes the dollar does suffer from small amounts of inflation, however even after inflation is taken into consideration it is still very stable? It is the international reserve currency after all. |
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Yeah Still around making some good cash money from this one
Congrats man! Good call |
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...
Thoughts? Comments?
Price being pushed down so certain people with agendas can get in big time before mainstream consolidation. We'll see 100 easily. Big fortuness being too old to understand a paradigm shift and missing on the train, then creating a fictional second train so they can pick up a first class citizen ticket while peasants sell in panic. Classic scenareo. >paradigm shift >missing on the train [sic] >bad grammar/spelling Another batshit crazy bitcoiner. Haha I know right? Why not just go for the most simplest explanation. That it is a speculative asset that bubbled and now the bubble is bursting as people are waking up from euphoria The bubble burst 75% ago. But thanks for stopping by  Yeah it'll settle at the price where an economics support it. Without a bitcoin only market like silk road who knows where that would be. Probably zero |
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Not sorry for being so blunt...
You trusted your bitcoins to any other 3rd party? You lost. You kept your coins in any other place than your wallet? You risked your money for nothing.
You daytraded? You helped the price to go down. I for one, sold only when I needed cash, only because I could not pay for much in BTC. Because if I could... I would had 0 fiat currency.
Remember that when you see the price so low it hurts. We had full power as a community to make bitcoin the 8th wonder of the world. But kinda failed.
It's the free market, brah Are you calling yourself free when I could drive the price down lower to 240 just because am an early bird? And wait for those fat wallets to dump, that would be mayhem. Are you calling yourself free and a GOVERNMENT has one of the biggest wallets  ARE YOU CALLING YOURSELF FREE WHEN YOU DIDN'T FOUGHT FOR ANYTHING IN THIS MARKET? There's no such thing. Chill brah, it's free as in people are free to do what they wish with their money. And you are too. HODL your coinz to zero for all I care. Take some responsibility for your own trading instead of expecting greater fools to pump the price just cause you're a bulltard. If you want to make money from here dump and go short. You've been warned by many smarter than yourself |
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...
Thoughts? Comments?
Price being pushed down so certain people with agendas can get in big time before mainstream consolidation. We'll see 100 easily. Big fortuness being too old to understand a paradigm shift and missing on the train, then creating a fictional second train so they can pick up a first class citizen ticket while peasants sell in panic. Classic scenareo. >paradigm shift >missing on the train [sic] >bad grammar/spelling Another batshit crazy bitcoiner. Haha I know right? Why not just go for the most simplest explanation. That it is a speculative asset that bubbled and now the bubble is bursting as people are waking up from euphoria |
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Not sorry for being so blunt...
You trusted your bitcoins to any other 3rd party? You lost. You kept your coins in any other place than your wallet? You risked your money for nothing.
You daytraded? You helped the price to go down. I for one, sold only when I needed cash, only because I could not pay for much in BTC. Because if I could... I would had 0 fiat currency.
Remember that when you see the price so low it hurts. We had full power as a community to make bitcoin the 8th wonder of the world. But kinda failed.
It's the free market, brah |
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That's what I thought. Over The Counter and pink sheets are synonomous. Its better than a totally unregulated exchange like bitfinex, et al. But still a lot of manipulation in penny stock land. If you've ever seen the movie Boiler Room. That's badically the scene. Except nowadays theres a whole network of internet "stock promoters" involved. I got scammed in pennystock before. Would touch any pink sheet security w a 10 ft pole |
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It is trading, dude. Short, Cover and Long. Why you be a beartard?
Cause it's easier to follow trend than trade against it Trend can be reversed. Too many bears can still crowd a working short into a non-working one. Whales are hunting for profit but not for bear hypes. If a short squeeze is lucrative, why not start it? You saw the rally from $300 to $450 once, the whale surely has the power to repeat it. Never be 100% sure about something that is out of your control, because you are a retail not a whale. Absolutely, but no signs of reversal yet. |
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doing TA with clear eye on fundamentals is not pseudoscience but these bulls here forgot to look at the fundamental data - they exclusively look at charts so it fails.
Also, I think if you try make predictions w TA you're doing it wrong. All I use it for is to tell me the present by looking at the past. |
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 I estimate the risk at around $3M give or take a little. edit: The BTC swaps are in a dangerous predicament. Mainly that big spike near the low. A good bounce and we could be in for a ride. When fewcoins made all those claims about a short squeeze over the last couple of weeks, I did a similar analisys on BTC swaps and came to the conclusion there was only about 2300 BTC worth of risk at the time. Not much for a squeeze. So does the dramatic recent spike in active BTC swaps create the opportunity for a manipulator to profit by triggering a short squeeze? You guys are assholes. Is the price gonna go up or down? He's saying a sudden spike can trigger a short squeeze cause the BTC swap is high. USD swap is low or normal so no fear of margin call. This bear has to do your trading for you? Sheesh. I don't how accurate it is to analyze bitfinex. Are they a big exchange. Do they lead or follow? Ok thanks for spelling it out, still doesn't help me. I don't understand how swaps work, not your problem, I have some learning to do. Awesome stuff tho, you guys who can understand it have my respect. Think of swap as a loan w interest. USD swap is longs borrow USD to buy BTC. BTC swaps are shorts borrowing BTC to short sell. Technically they are derivatives for hedging. If you long dollars, you sell swaps and collect interest to hedge moves against you. If you are long BTC you lend BTC for interest to hedge if price moves against you. If the price moves too far against swap holders direction they are forced to close their positions (margin called). The sudden tsunami of short covering causes a short squeeze. A tsunami of long positions getting margin called creates a flash crash |
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