Thanks. I was just trying to put forward a framework for how to conceptualize the question. But if someone wanted to actually use my silly back of the napkin math your addendum would be helpful.

So transaction fees were about 4 dollars or so when the price was 500. I suspect that around about a 4 dollar transaction fee is as much as the market will sustain. Bitcoin has managed to push higher but bitcoin is special. It is a powerful brand. So lets just say 4 dollars is about what someone is willing to pay in transaction fee for an altcoin and it was 4 dollars at 500 dollars. Bullet proofs will bring probably an 85% space savings. 80% on 2 output transactions but more space savings on transactions with more outputs so we need to increase it a bit above 80% to account for that. So with an 85% space savings and a 4 dollar transaction fee the price would be 6.6 times higher than 500. 500*6.6=3300.

So this is some super rough math but atleast it gives an idea of how to begin to approach this problem. Scalability is the limiting factor for cryptocurrencies right now and transaction fees are the measure of scalability (I know also centralization vs decentralization plays a role too but never the less). They are a reflection of the current progress in scaling technologies. The prices cant go higher until more and better scaling solutions are developed.

*edit*
Unless, as generalizethis points out, it starts getting valued as a tax haven type of reserve asset and not as a currency. Then people might be willing to deal with huge transaction fees. In which case the sky is the limit.

I don't understand when people ask this question. The lower the price the better the buy. It's twice as good of a buy as it was when it was twice the price.

Yea but I bet even 10,000 iot devices or some very large number like that probably isn't enough to win enough blocks to feel comfortable operating without a pool.

Are you kidding? Monero is a alphabet soup black budget ops dream. Also a corrupt politician's dream. Also an oligarch's tax haven dream. It will find massive widespread adoption at various levels in the state and its connected cronies. Right now politicians and state actors push around budgets in the trillions, engage in massive corruption with said funds, only to reaping rewards in the single or double digit millions. That's an effective capture rate of as low as 0.001% in some cases. These people are going to be able to use monero and technologies like it to capture a much much larger share of the corruption that they participate in. They are going to LOVE monero.

There is tons of this going on. It might be the vast majority of monero's hashrate for all we know. It isn't news.

Wireshark packet analysis? Or maybe catalog and make sure you know the purpose and function of all of the running processes in top? I bet you could even write a script to filter out all the processes that you know what they do and only report ones you haven't cataloged yet.

Bullet proofs come in 2018. Bullet proofs will see a space savings/fee reduction of ~80% on standard 2 output transactions but much higher space savings on transactions with more than 2 outputs. After that the next big development will probably be kovri. I don't know if we can expect to see kovri on main net in 2018 though. The focus of the monero project is on steady improvement of the core product rather than flashy new "me too" features.

It's probably just botnets. There is almost no reason for a botnet operator to mine anything other than monero so probably 70-90% of all botnet miners are mining monero. Also botnet operators are moving away from ransom-ware and into mining instead because it tends to be more profitable. A lot of ransom-ware attacks go unpaid and its a one time deal even if they do pay, where as a compromised computer or IOT device can silently mine monero indefinitely supplying a passive reliable revenue stream. It's reasonable to expect the might of the worlds botnet armies to outpace legitimate miners when they are all piling head first onto our little old project.

I already have several accounts at several banks and a credit union. After this is all over I'm closing all of my wells fargo accounts and using a local credit union that I like.


What is the alternative to coinbase? I couldn't find any other exchanges in the us that would allow me to withdraw fiat.

Well I haven't actually seen the check clear yet so hopefully I can still write checks. The lady I talked to didn't seem like she was very knowledgeable. She said checks would still work fine but I'm not confident she has any idea what shes talking about.

No I don't think an ATM is going to help. This wire transfer was to pay for a real estate deal. That would take a LONG time 300 dollars at a time.

It's funny. If this really is them reacting to being out competed by the crypto sector, they respond by showing how and why they are being out competed.


I don't know but it just reminds me why what we are doing here is so important.

So if anyone needs any more motivation to bet against the banking system by buying crypto today wells fargo refused to wire transfer my money because "it came from coinbase". I asked how long would I have to wait they said it wasn't a matter of waiting. I can never wire transfer that money. That's really what they told me. The slimy fucks.

I went into my local wells fargo branch today to do a wire transfer of funds from my checking account but they refused to wire my money on the grounds that "they have a policy against wiring funds that come from coinbase". Apparently all USD is equal but some USD is more equal than other USD. They said I can still write a check using the money just no wire transfers. Oh thank you massa... Hopefully it's true... I'm attempting to use a check written from wells fargo over to my credit union and then do the wire transfer from there. But of course that's going to take an effing week because the legacy banking system is a god damned disgrace.

I cant be too mad. I knew they were this bad. Part of the reason I invested in crypto so long ago is precisely because I knew how awful they were and I was right and made a lot of money betting against them. If they weren't this terrible I never would have had the success that I have. The last laugh belongs to me.

Maybe I'll just have to take one for the team and start trolling?

Anyone who owns monero is a turtle molester.

Always better to buy when its cheaper than when its more expensive but I would wait for a double digit price before blowing the very last of my dry powder.

It works a lot like a shamir secret sharing scheme. Here you go watch this https://youtu.be/FRdGe9kNBRI?t=20m48s

There was an article on zerohedge this morning about how robinhood has more than a million people on their waiting list to use their soon to be crypto trading platform. It's looking like this could be almost another coinbase worth of fresh capital coming into the sector.

Someone mentioned this before and it was eyeopening for me. It's all about what price you bought in at. You and I glob probably bought in at single or double digit prices. It's easy for us to just sit back, relax and ignore the screaming children. But its different for people who paid 300 400 or heaven forbid almost 500 dollars.

I'm not sure. I think it somewhat relies on a trustworthy central service provider. Basically they need to be making the chips in a physically secure way then providing an interface on the hardware for third parties to verify that the device was manufactured by them. If I'm understanding it all correctly.

Bump I guess since no one seemed to have noticed it last time. This particular way of scaling at the low end could be a HUGE part of the solution to scaling.