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1501  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 09:29:44 PM

Because Andreas also vouched for Neo & Bee...



Andreas disagrees with you.

"During that call I explained that I could only be involved as a technical advisor and that due to my limited time I could not endorse N&B with investors or take on a director position that would involve fiduciary or oversight responsibilities."

"I had no insight into finances, no oversight, no involvement in marketing or investor meetings, no contact with customers, investors or regulators. "

http://antonopoulos.com/2014/04/18/neo-bee-a-statement-by-andreas-m-antonopoulos-a-consultants-perspective/

In what sense did he vouch for them more than this is an interesting company that could be big and be a viable and valuable business? In what sense did he vouch for them more than any other employee who didn't know the particular finances?
1502  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 09:15:46 PM

Oh gosh how hard is it :p. Mining, donations, sold stuff online, investments, payment for freelance work. Yes, a few sentences covers it.
They don't even ask for proof of where the funds come from, they just ask where they origin from. Big difference.

Agree with that part til 100%. Bitstamp should give more information on what happens with the passport scans, replies to questionaires etc.

They do ask for proof, thats the point. See the Bitstamp marketplace thread for an example of someone who had to prove where he got the $220 he ws trying to deposit.
1503  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 09:11:59 PM


Didn't they pass a solvency audit prior to the fall of Gox?

Yes and no. The audit was released in I think March or Feb but the actual audit was done in November. Besides you still have to trust the auditor. (Again Im not saying there are any solvency issues)

Wasn't it Andreas? Apologies, on phone with low battery so can't search to find the details.

What does who it was change to the fact you have to trust them?
1504  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New Bitcoin Foundation on: May 23, 2014, 09:08:36 PM

My point is that if you aren't a member of the Foundation, you can't vote on the direction that the Foundation takes. Also, it is a stretch to imagine that members of the Foundation would think, "a bunch of random people think we should shut down our organization, so let's shut it down."

If you don't like what the Foundation is doing, you have three choices:

1. Complain here.
2. Join and try to change it.
3. Start a competing organization.

I think that #1 is the least effective action, and #3 is the most effective.



I agree and also agree with your rankings. Im not saying "a bunch of random people think we should shut down our organization, so let's shut it down" I don't agree with that.

However it's my opinion that the direction the foundation takes should be decided by the Bitcoin community at large, not just a bunch of random people, IF they profess to represent the community at large and not just the organisation. They can't have it both ways.
1505  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 09:04:13 PM


Didn't they pass a solvency audit prior to the fall of Gox?

Yes and no. The audit was released in I think March or Feb but the actual audit was done in November. Besides you still have to trust the auditor. (Again Im not saying there are any solvency issues)
1506  Economy / Services / Re: ★★★ HIGHEST SIGNATURE PAYMENT ON THE BOARD - NEW RATES - RitzGrandCasino.com on: May 23, 2014, 09:02:55 PM
Will I still get a payment even though I started in the middle of the month?

Yes, you will automatically be paid on the first providing that you have made 50 posts.
1507  Economy / Services / Re: WE PAY FOR SIGNATURE EVEN MORE. UP TO 0.0016 BTCs PER POST. WEEKLY PAYOUTS. on: May 23, 2014, 09:00:28 PM
I don't want to edit my original post but what is the difference between Posts and Activity. I for some reason have 90 Posts but activity is 87 ?

I just put what my next activity would be, not posts because I assumed it was the same thing,

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178608.0

This should answer your questions.
1508  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 08:56:23 PM
Do I need to get my coins out of bitstamp for safety?

For fuck's sake. This is nothing new.... It's a couple of teenagers that want so start riots against Bitstamp. It's completely legit. Why don't you Google "Bitstamp questionaire" or "bitcoin exchange questionaire" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=499882 etc

It's a standard procedure in order to maintain a good relationship with their bank. Otherwise, they will get kicked out.

I just wrote a couple of sentences and I passed the test. As long as you don't say "I am a terrorist" "It's all illegal money", then you are good to go.

DON'T BOTHER ABOUT BISTAMP, IT'S 100% LEGIT!!!

A couple of sentences don't cover it if your asked for proof of where the funds came from. As was the case with myself. But I agree with the its nothing new it just about how and what they are asking. We've seen huge data breaches at third party companies such as Adobe and Ebay and people are right to be wary of what sort of information these companies hold on themselves.
1509  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New Bitcoin Foundation on: May 23, 2014, 08:52:47 PM
It would be better if this discussion took place in the Bitcoin Foundation forums. Most of the people that post here about the Bitcoin Foundation aren't even members, so what they think doesn't really count.
The opposite is true.  What the foundation thinks of itself is unimportant.  What the bitcoin community (bitcointalk) thinks is of greatest importance.  This discussion should take place here where the foundation can't easily influence its outcome.

I'd have to take this side of the argument. Surely the community at large, not just those with the funds to be a member, should be of the most importance.
1510  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 08:43:28 PM
Do I need to get my coins out of bitstamp for safety?

I think that is rash, theres no suggestion or evidence they are insolvent just being far far too intrusive to cover their backsides.
1511  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 08:38:03 PM


I withdrew a couple millions and did not need to prove anything, just answer their questions. Unless they recently changed rules, it is likely that the guy's activity had some reason for suspicion and therefore he got special treatment. (The checks are usually automatic, and give many false positives, which cause annoyance for people, of course.)

I think its clear that they have changed rules.

Also I don't think its the case now that your are just getting flagged on suspicious activity it seems to be more about a threshold.

I have also been asked this and there is nothing at all suspicious about my account.

This guy for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38711.msg6554157#msg6554157 was just trying to deposit $220 and had deposited $12k over a year and a few months.
1512  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 08:31:39 PM
Are stamp problems are related only to $ withdrawal requests?

It seems so. I haven't heard of anyone being asked ridiculous stuff like this withdrawing BTC but Stamp was my reliable exchange that even if I did some trades elsewhere Stamp was the fiat gateway.

Can anyone confirm? And how much money must it be for these kind of problems to show up?

Read around there has been a few stories of these new requirements going around. Thats the main issue, there is no advertised threshold that you bump up against these problems. The guy was trying to draw max $4000, thats pocket change! The other explanation is its worked out on trade volume but how fucking retarded. I could trade the same 10 coins 1000 times or do one 10k trade, which one should raise the most flags?

He said it was nearly 500 coins.  That makes it nearly a quarter million dollars.  I can see why they want docs for that.

No he said it was 500 coins over the history of the account. 50 trades of 10 coins (particularly if the account was a few years old meaning that some of the trades could be worth far less than $500/BTC) isn't a large amount at all.
1513  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 07:51:09 PM
Regarding Bitstamp issues - there hasn't been widespread confirmation that this is happening, and the news materialising on a Friday afternoon (GMT) just before a bank holiday from a freshly created reddit accounts adds to the suspicions. If Bitstamp had reasonable grounds for concern why would they allow the BTC transfer but not the fiat? It could just be an isolated case or some fabricated FUD. Although unlike the traditional FUD this would boost the BTC price.

This has been going on for months and it's well documented. I dunno why it's getting feathers ruffled now. I'll be taking my business elsewhere.

Its not just getting feathers ruffled now in fairness, some of us have spoken about it several times before here and in the Stamp thread, it just so happens that its been brought up again. I reluctantly took my business elsewhere as well. Its a shame.
1514  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 07:32:50 PM
Regarding Bitstamp issues - there hasn't been widespread confirmation that this is happening, and the news materialising on a Friday afternoon (GMT) just before a bank holiday from a freshly created reddit accounts adds to the suspicions. If Bitstamp had reasonable grounds for concern why would they allow the BTC transfer but not the fiat? It could just be an isolated case or some fabricated FUD. Although unlike the traditional FUD this would boost the BTC price.

Please read above and in the Bitstamp thread you will see that it is confirmed. We're not saying Stamp has cause for concerns regarding solvency necessarily . What we are discussing is their in depth probing KYC/AML questions that are rather too personal and unnecessary to many people.
1515  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 07:24:51 PM
Granted, looks like the "origin of your funds" question is absent, but other than that: get used to the fact that /all/ major exchanges, whether they are that mythical "legitimate" exchange you keep wishing for, or just our regular old existing exchanges, are covering their asses as hard as possible.

We knew that would happen at the fiat gates. Let's not act all surprised about it now.
The whole questionnaire I am talking about is absent, this is no different from passport + utility bill which Bitstamp already demands and has you believe you are verified (hell, it says so on your profile), until you withdraw.

There's no way around KYC rules, but Bitstamp has taken it further than anywhere I have ever seen.

Read again. Unfortunately I can't find the complete list for "tier 4" (to get their highest withdrawal limits applied) but it asks for all the regular ID and living address documents *plus* additional verification some of it notarized if I understand correctly.

There's one obvious difference I see: they're more upfront about it, which is good.

Tier 4 is for companies. So no, for a personal account just the normal KYC stuff is needed.
1516  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 07:19:18 PM

Agreed to some of your points.

1) Yes. Absolutely. You have every right to be pissed off, to stop using them, and even publically say so. What I would prefer however you do is to not use ambiguous wording, that insinuate we have another gox situation at hand here. By all available evidence, that is /not/ the case. Agreed?

2) Complete agreement. But did you actually go through the procedure? I got the impression that, if in doubt, they let it slide (and accept the answer "I have provided all that I reasonably can on this point, but cannot provide any further proof".) That was my experience, but if someone actually has a withdrawal rejected because he couldn't sign from a Bitcoin source that doesn't allow signing -- well, I'd like to hear about that, I would also consider that extremely problematic.

3) see 2) above. My impression is they don't hold anything hostage. They probe quite a bit, but in the end, if you play along more or less, they accept your answers.

4) See my reply to Blitz: they are intrusive because they're scared senseless of having their little money printing machine they got going closed down one day to another because some overeager British or German or US court subpoenas them, and when they can't answer in style, the full wrath of AML procedures are invoked on them.

1) Agreed. Although I will say with all available evidence you couldn't have said Gox was going to be bankrupt within a year not so long ago, I'm not saying its another Gox (normal knee jerk reaction, should definitely tone down that rhetoric), but you get my drift.

2) No, I refused to go through the process for the reasons mentioned before. Provide me with adequate warning and I may. Cite the law and I will. Don't ask such obviously unnecessary questions (they are, as said no other broker asks these questions and my bank doesn't know half the things they were asking) and I will.

3) They do hold it hostage though! Unless you play along with them, thats the point. Are we supposed to bend the truth just to play along and then get burnt later down the line?

4) Thats cool and rightly so they should be worried its a high risk businesses to be in but the rewards are plentiful, kinda like Bitcoin in the first place. Within your reply to Blitz though you missed the whole issue, Kraken asks those things, nobody has a problem providing those things. Hell I've provided them to several exchanges. I don't have a problem with KYC or AML but I have a huge problem with how personal and intrusive the questions are.

Sorry, no third party is being trusted with that sort of information until they can provide me with with clear terms. The threshold, why, which law etc etc. These aren't the sort of things you can sneak in and be like "well to be fair it was an open secret".  Don't make out like your all about compliance, regulation  and covering your ass when you can't even put out some explanatory TOS.
1517  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 06:52:32 PM


No one is being forced to use Bitstamp, if you find their requests too searching then use someone else. Bitstamp don't care because although they'll be plenty of innocent users put out by these questions, they will undoubtedly reduce the criminal elements.

Nobodies saying that your being forced to use them in the first place but if these stringent requests aren't advertised or even written anywhere and you sell funds there then you are forced to either;

1) Answer the questions
2)Buy back coins, pay them more fees for doing so and possibly loosing out due to a change in price.
1518  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 06:40:28 PM


No, see, you're lawyering now. Not even that, you're twisting words.

We all know what "withdrawal problems" mean in the context of Bitcoin exchanges: the inability to serve withdrawal requests of customers.

And that's exactly what is not going on over at Bitstamp. What is going on is that, at some point during the past year, (a) they decided they want to establish a more intrusive KYC procedure for large withdrawals, and (b) that they don't want to make a big public announcement about it.

I support their right to do (a), but would have preferred if they would have avoided doing it rather backhandedly, i.e. I don't support (b). But by now everyone who follows the Bitstamp thread knows about it, so it's, if you want to call it, an open secret: if you want to deal in large(ish) sums on Bitstamp, prepare for the additional KYC questionnaire.

Sorry but I'm not twisting words, you can't change the definition of a problem. We obviously disagree so its pointless debating semantics. I think its clear that a withdrawal problem is anything that makes withdrawing either currency problematic, which this does.

I too, support their right to do (a) but think that when you do (a) without (b) be prepared for a backlash from customers who either;

1) Are just generally pretty pissed of with (b)
2) Physically cannot sign their most used address.
3) Wouldn't be prepared to offer that information (which is a personal choice) but didn't have the chance to not use the exchange due to (b) and now their fiat is effectively hostage.
4) Think that a lot of the questions in (a) are far too intrusive. Which I think they are no other financial institution in the same category asks those sorts of questions.  Even my bank doesn't know some of the information they are asking for.
 

If its the law to be this intrusive (which its not) then cite it in the request and I will follow it. Until then they are just another exchange that is all too happy to hold your assets hostage.
1519  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 06:20:42 PM

There are no "withdrawal problems" on Bitstamp. Not fiat, not Bitcoin. Not a single documented case. Head over to the services subforum and find the relevant thread and check for yourself.

There are rather intrusive questions asked when you withdraw larger sums, either fiat or Bitcoin. After those questions are answered, the withdrawals go through immediately. Anyone disagreeing on this, please, by all means, report in.

So let's keep things separate: Withdrawal problems are one thing. At the first sign, I'd like to know about them. The other thing is an exchange that tries to cover its ass when the inevitable subpoenas come in related to money laundering, Silk Road, etc. Bitstamp is rather nosy in that respect, but I prefer that to be honest over them being closed down if they can't answer to those subpoenas properly.

That's the deal: you want anonymity? Mine, or buy on btc-e. You want liquidity, and low counterparty risk? Bitstamp.

I guess that falls under what you define a problem as.

Can't withdraw fiat even though you're verified without asking intrusive questions above and beyond what a company could possibly need to know for KYC/AML, add on the fact that many people can't sign their most used deposit address then I'd call it a problem.
Insolvency is a different question but when you want your money that they were happy for you to deposit in the first place without asking where it came from then, to me, thats a pretty big problem.

Its not about anonymity, I don't want/need to remain anonymous its about personal questions that are far more intrusive than is necessary, covering their ass or not doesn't really change that.
1520  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 23, 2014, 06:02:26 PM
Are stamp problems are related only to $ withdrawal requests?

It seems so. I haven't heard of anyone being asked ridiculous stuff like this withdrawing BTC but Stamp was my reliable exchange that even if I did some trades elsewhere Stamp was the fiat gateway.

Can anyone confirm? And how much money must it be for these kind of problems to show up?

Their topic is in Marketplace forum...ask them Wink since there is no reports yet I think this is not true.

There has been plenty of people recently who have posted on Reddit recently with the same story (sorry cba to find them all) so the question of "are they asking for over the top information" is true.

In fact go check out their thread in the marketplace I'm sure there was someone in there who had to prove where he got the money from which included sending bank statements showing deposits. Sorry but if Im verified you can't tell me then that Im not verified enough.
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