And yet I didn't see you protesting about the fact that Bukele has never released proof of his Bitcoin buyouts, never protested against a centralized wallet requiring KYC, never protested about the government in control of your cryptos, and I know it already why because that was good for the price!!!

That's the difference between having some moral standards and doesn't use doubles ones depending on the APY  involved.
You're protecting CZ and Binance, a centralized entity that has no room in the original Satoshi world just because...it's against the government.
Did you also cheer on FTX and SBF breaking every government rule also? Guess not!

So, who should I support, the guy saying this:
Or a piece of shit that has only one purpose, of replacing every decentralized coin with one of his Binance coin?


When?

The discussion started about the reward being gone, you're still relying on the block reward, what happens when that ain't no more, cause you mentioned thinking for longterm and not short-term solutions like the one I proposed/
Block 765431 (765432 was not full  ) , had only $2,156 in fees, those will be the ones guaranteeing the network protection.
It's no other way round you either have enough people to pay for it or you don't!

The only time the current block reward was matching the fees was when we had a media of $20 per tx, do you think that will keep being the norm, and people will till pay for it?
Not to mention you're forgetting another aspect, right now 100k a block for miners guarantees a level of protection that means you have to spend 10 billion in order to attack Bitcoin, valued at 600 billion market cap. What happens when the total value of the network will be 10 trillion, will 10 billion in protection be enough?
See, I'm thinking long-term, far longer than you thought, and sorry to say but your solution right now is wait and see!


Where a full block of fees paying 2-5 satoshi/b guarantees a level of protection that means you need 10% of the market cap to attack it.


400k a day?  
If you say that is a definition of adoption then you agree where on the same level as dogecoin!
Btw, the last block fees were $9,327, 5% of the total reward, you will either have people paying 20 times as much or, quite interesting have 20x times more people paying the same. That would mean 8 million transactions or 1/3 the number of card transactions Visa and MasterCard do in France alone.


Then with what? Binance or Coinbase credits? Bank of America IOU bitcoin?


There was no explanation but a reason, and that was spam.

And there is a more interesting thing, garzik introduced a patch to increase the size limit, Satoshi opposed because of incompatibility but his words were
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15139#msg15139

So let me get this right, tinfoil logic:
BlackRock Inc and  Vanguard and a dozen others that are also the major shareholders of Coinbase are driving the SEC to destroy their own investment and lose their clients in order to start a new exchange from scratch where they will be the owners just as they are now with Coinbase!

Now you get why those people are so damn rich? Because they don't go by tinfoil hat logic when they put their money to work!
I wonder if their ETFs get rejected, will all those "insiders" come out again and apologize for all the gibberish they've posted?

I was waiting for somebody to say this, the president might not even have the power to do something in some countries.
I doubt that 1% of Europeans know who the president of Germany for example is.
The trick question would be to name the president of the Netherlands or Canada!


And if you lower taxes how are you going to pay for the rest? 
Before you even say it, let's assume Congo or Rwanda lowers its tax to zero, do you see an influx in business?
Easy to "fix" problems in countries that are developed but what are you going to do when there is nothing, like literally nothing in your country that you've become president?

And your source is a shitposting twitter account with their source being the trust me bro newspaper!
This is your source?


Lol!

One more thing, there is no such thing as "the us" launching something.
The US or EU or Germany or France are countries, and the ones launching something are companies, companies are not the same as countries, that only work in the USSR or North Korea.
Besides, nobody was outraged when Coinbase was launched when Kraken was launched or Gemini or wehn CME went live, that wasn't tinfoil material?


Then can you tell me why:
- did Binance flee from Singapore citing regulations in 2017?
- did Binance flee  Japan citing regulation in 2018?
- did Binance flee from Malta before even requesting a license in 2018?

Binance not managing to hold to a license in every country they've tried besides Bermuda, lol, is this also a US conspiracy?
Or it is proof they never planned to play by the rules anywhere?

I know the chances are zero but I don't know about the doubling difficulty.
I don't think there are even 200 exa of hashing power that is standing on the side right now, in January 2022 we had 200exa on the chain for around 20cents per th/s so for a doubling every single gear that was mining then would need to be offline now and ready to pounce. I also doubt that Bitmain and co have on stock ready to deploy another 100exa to make it double.

But still, yeah, probably zero chances unless it's for a few minutes a sudden pump that right now has no way of managing to prop the price for more than minutes at those levels. If it goes to $150k tomorrow I admit I might be one of the guys dumping a few coins too.


Well, it doesn't have to be only Texas that is affected, but I remember that their grid is independent so the other areas might get away without power restrictions. Probably the fellows in the US know this better. As for the other thing about the datacenters there, I'm curious too but I wonder if it's not about taxes also, not just energy.

I don't know how things work there but usually here when we're faced with grid problems here in EE due to plants going offline large consumers are put completely offline,  there is no powering down or keeping running at half or so, they shut down every large consumer check to see if there is enough spare capacity left after and only then instruct a few to come back online again. I almost forgot about those things but back in the 90s, they were like the once-a-week normal event.

And the same law will speak wonders when you're going to have to pay miners to keep mining when there will be only fees.
You pay 2000$ in fees per block you're going to have a 2000$ security!


Short-term, lol!
You realize that things will only get only worse from here, right?
You will either have more demand and higher fees, or you will have lower fees cause nobody is interested in using it anymore.


And you know that in order for every American to open a channel on the second layer you will need everyone to stop making a tx for the next three years at the current capacity? Let's go global and assume everyone will also want to close a channel in their lifetime and the queue will be over by...the time almost everyone that right now types on this forum will be dead!



Prices have gone down 6 times since the first block, also, there were no consumer ssd at that time.
Not counting inflation $90 then was not considered a problem why should $115 be now?

Required! Man, this sounds like the bank telling me to pay the 10$ card maintenance or fuck off!
Still haven't told me the major drawback of rising the block size to 4MB or 8 MB.
What element or property of Bitcoin would be in danger and what is the major threat?


I hope Satoshi is still alive otherwise he would be the first human to die twice, the second from rolling in his grave!
But again, how will 4MB blocks stop Bitcoin from being censorship resilient and borderless?


We were talking about backwards compatibility! You're talking about old nodes rejecting new blocks!
Every single new node will still see the old chain as valid, that's backward when the new system can operate with the older one!


[1] Bitcoin Transactions last 24h   428,070
[2] Dogecoin Transactions last 24h 478,009
[3] Ethereum Transactions last 24h 1,063,142

I copy-pasted your numbers so I might have got the ranking messed up   But anyhow, having more transactions in a day is irrelevant to global adoption, right? What matters is the market cap!!! /s How stupid of me!

Value isn't the same as usability, gold is valuable but you don't see people sending gold via pigeons to Amazon.
A lot depends on what you think Bitcoin was supposed to fix, and Bitcoin making 100x gains might not be the only thing some thought it's a good idea, maybe some thought of it as an alternative to other things. When the continuous growth will flatten what will be the attractivity if not cheaper borderless uncensored usage?


Nodes only have to validate blocks on the rules since the moment of the change, since there is no running chain with more work that has invalid blocks by the previous rules that become valid right now where would the problem be? Reducing the size would trigger incompatibility, all the previously mined blocks would still be valid under an 8 or 16 MB rule.


Hundreds of academic research mean nothing when you have to put food on the table, just as nobody gives a crap about the world ending in a climate catastrophe when the only way to go to work is by driving a wheeled furnace, or whatever the name of vw models is right now! Few care about academic research when they have to pay 100sat/b or wait for one month till the fees go down!

I don't know how the hell you arrived at the conclusion that just because Litecoin offers more transaction capacity and hasn't been able to go global automatically means Bitcoin shouldn't do that if it wants to go global! Let's do the opposite then, put a limit of 1kb and a block every month, that should lead to universal adoption!
But ok, I can't wait for 2040 when I have a 512 terrabyte smartphone, I can live stream in 1024 over 100Tbs but the blocks will still be the same cause 1MB of memory block size will be enough for anybody!


We've taken a piss so many times on the original design that even a dump now won't be noticed! 

Then what are you doing on Bitcointalk?


You realize that by saying you're an investor you've just handed the SEC a victory, acknowledging they were right about Cardano?


Stop chewing used tinfoil hats!


The SEC is not in charge of taxing or planing taxing anything, that's the IRS and they are already taxing income from crypto in the US.


Good, then you agree with Satoshi that leaving your coins in charge of a 3rd party is sooooooo stupid?
That you should use cryptos as a p2p method of transferring value and as a method of protecting your wealth?
So, you understand that by taking the side of exchanges and shitcoin centralized money printing here, you're just as bad as a banker arguing against Satoshi?


Bullshit!
The reality is that 90% would support everyone from Hitler to the Rostchilds to the Reptilians to the same government and SEC if that would mean the price of the shitcoin they hold would double overnight even if it means killing Bitcoin!
Why should I care about some shitcoin lovers when all they do all day long is bashing Bitcoin and describe it as old low specs high tech that can't do a thing and is million years behind their stellar shitcoin?

Why should I take the side of Binance when they were charging more for Bitcoin withdrawals while making their shitcoin clone 20 times cheaper, not to mention it putting it on top in search results if you search for Bitcoin?
Why should take the side of CZ when he only has one purpose, to make his BNB replace Bitcoin everywhere?

Are we both talking about the trillion project that was under terrorist attack and faced extinction when confronted by some jpg meme?
Also, how is increasing the blocksize breaking backward compatibility?


But what is really the concern then?
Cause we see, the only real concern was that for nearly a month it was so damn expensive to make a tx on the blockchain that many users ended up saying it's better not to use Bitcoin for a while and switch to some shitcoin. If hundreds of pages of people screaming about high fees is not a concern bigger than the price of 1TB of storage, then I must have a completely different view of what "global adoption" and  "usage" mean and also I probably lack the imagination needed how this global adoption will happen with under 500k tx a day. Or 0.15% of the population of the US.


This community here that has posted the graph on Bitcoin adoption vs others a million times on this forum!


Miners protect the network because they get the block reward, when there will be no block reward they will rely on fees, right now, we had an instance where the fees from the transactions were the same as the block reward, in that block the median fee was around 20$.
So to get the same level of protection for the network in the future as we have now, that will have to be at least the average, 24/7, forever!

Just as a cheaper smartphone can work better than one at twice the price or you can survive in a 5k car while the other guy ends up dead there is really no specific rule that the price guarantees something.  A wallet can cost more if it offers more features but those features don't mean security as much as accessibility, a wallet with more altcoins supported won't matter for somebody who only owns BTC and the thing can go on and on!
Of course, a wallet costing more might mean the team has spent more time testing, better materials, and better eveythign but that's not a rule, see the $ 1,790 Balenciaga trashcan pouch.

That being said, as ETFbitcoin mentioned I would stay away from very cheap wallets and of course, the ones given away for free by no-name manufacturers at conventions or web promos and competitions as there are high chances those have been tampered with and they are just fishing for victims. They can afford to give away a thousand if they manage to trick somebody who has a few BTC on them.

The idea is pretty simple, if you stick to the basics you're safe and it works wonders even on this forum in the lending section if you just don't offer loans with collateral! One simply rule, that's all!


Two mistakes with this:
- in a bear market it's actually easier to pay back your loan if you took a crypto loan. If you took 1BTC at a price of 60k you had to pay back $5k a month plus interest for a one-year loan, right now you only have to pay 2k, so it's way easier.
- that's why collateral is in for, if you don't pay the lender gets the collateral, if the collateral goes under 110-120% of the value loaned it gets liquidated and your loan is terminated, you lose your coins but the lender isn't losing a penny

If the lender follows basic self-imposed rules and common sense he can't get rekt.
That's why in crisis in the real world loan sharks thrive, they don't get bankrupt!


Then why are others still operating?

I'm unfamiliar with altcoins fees, but ....$48? Isn't this like 10 times the average now?


0.001 BTC is $27 , what is with the 99 USDT?
Also, let me get this right, you deposited a few satoshis to reach the 0.002 BTC limit as you had less than that and then you paid 0.001 BTC in fees? Was it even worth it considering you had to pay also the blockchain fees for the deposit?

I spent a bi of time pondering about that too, here is my take
November till January saw the price at 16k, we're on average 75% up, here are the adjustments from that period:


the 15 January spike happened with nearly a full epoch in the same price range before the pump so we could count it also but it will deviate a bit too much. If we use 35 as a base we can look at 61.2, if we assume more gear was already contracted and is also right now in planning and we go for 40 then we have a diff of 70T as the upper limit.
Another thing is the gear, it's highly possible there is a bit of improvement in the J/T area, the XP is at 21J/T  the 90T S19 had 34J/T, so assuming a 10% upgrade base with a 33-50% efficiency you might squeeze another 3T in difficulty. Lower energy prices than last summer and autumn might get also a bit of maneuvering space, so limiting the numbers that will go belly flop in the first stage. So I would go for the upper limit Mikey mentioned plus a bit, 65-70???

Now, how about being more positive? We should stop talking so much about how low the earning can go before bankruptcies and more of any chances of hitting 40 cents per th as in October two years ago!    zero?

To straighten things up from the start, I'm not advising OP to mine like this, I'm not telling anyone to do so because they might end up in court and with a fine or even with a prison sentence depending on the local laws there. But, to debate the mining aspect there is a dilemma :

You have free electricity but you need to be stealthy, so having low consumption gear might get you the stealthy aspect of going under the normal fluctuation in consumption and avoiding the noise, but at the same time doing so you won't be earning that much. Taking full opportunity of the cheap energy and plugging two generations old cheap hardware you can get for scrap metal price might earn you more with less investment but you're going to be in trouble for the consumption per penny earned. Putting too much money into a brand new efficient miner is also trouble since even with free electricity you might never ROI till you get caught because of the high acquisition prices for efficient gear.

So as Phil said, a below ~1kw miner might be the most advantageous choice, but are you ready to risk facing all those consequences for one dollar a day?

And to what other requirements? Ram, internet speed? Should we also compare those to the Satoshi era?
Centralization because people can't afford to run a node when we're talking about ASICs in the thousands of $ that are close to not even working in a normal house without modifications to the breaker and powerlines?

I'm genuinely curious about what is so threatening about increasing the size by a factor of 2 or 4 for example.
I've yet to hear an argument about how doubling or quadrupling the size of the blocks will be a bigger threat than the spam attack that turns users away, the centralizations of mining pools of farms, the near monopoly in mining gear production, the already enormous percentage of nodes hosted in data centers, and so on and on!


And isn't it ironic that we like to compare the penetration of Bitcoin to the Internet, smartphones, tv, etc and we tend to forget every single one of them become widespread when it became affordable for the average Joe? Much unlike a 20$ tx!

It takes just 3 seconds including tapping/clicking:

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bithumb/
https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/coinbase-exchange/

https://learn.bybit.com/trading/what-is-kimchi-premium/

When doubting one's story, shouldn't you research on your own, what help would be his explanations if you doubt him from the start?

Nicehash has mining software, but it doesn't have mining gear, and neither does hut8 they don't sell Asics anymore.


What the hell is a federal school environment? And how would electricity be free just by that?
Some guy might open a workshop and draw 600kw of power every second, would the infrastructure even hold?
I see you have a post in the Bangladesh subforum, just yesterday I was reading of another member bitching about daily power cuts, how do you expect to start mining for free with this happening?
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/bangladeshs-worst-electricity-crisis-decade-2023-06-07/


An s19 burns 72kwh a day, 2100 a month, by European standards that's how much a 5-8 classrooms will consume a month.
Do you think that adding 3-4 times the consumption will not be seen?

Capital controls aren't bans!
You just need to follow the rules, declare everything, and pay your fees and taxes and nobody will bother you.
As long as you have a legit company, and an SK bank account and you can provide them with everything they need, in most cases the proof of income for the amounts you're transferring then you're all set.


It's pretty simple!
You look for the opportunity to arrive, at that point you buy $50 BTC on Coinbase, you send them to Bitthumb, you sell at a 5% premium, you withdraw your money to the SK bank, then to your US bank, and then you try again.
There is actually not a big difference between this and taking advantage of any other high commodity prices, traders do this with full tankers of LNG or oil when the price are better in Europe than in Asia, the same happened with the onions in Philipines.

There are some problems:
- you need a huge capital to make it worthwhile, you can't play with one BTC as the fees will eat all your profit.
- the money flow from inside Korea takes time, a lot of time, so don't think you can do this daily, it's not SEPA.
- sometimes the kImchi premium turns to a discount, you don't want to be caught in one so you might be forced to wait, sometimes even for weeks