Oh, I knew there was a reason for the usuals trying to derail the topic again with the whole US and Iran the Shitpower of the East thing

LNG prices have come down below 30E/Mwh for the first time, with a huge -6.436 E/Mwh discount compared to pipe gas traded at TTF.
https://www.acer.europa.eu/gas/lng-price-assessment
So to put this in perspective, LNG from the US is right now only
- 4 Euros more expensive than what Russian gas was before the invasion of Crimea, only 13% since 2013
- 6 Euros more expensive compared to 5 years ago, so that would be only a 26% increase since then

And of course, even with buyers showing  little interest gas deposits are getting easily filled
https://agsi.gie.eu/ Full 62.04%
And it's the same with Asia, the whole thing about China re-opening triggering a crisis was just another made-up story
Asian spot LNG prices hit 23-month low amid weak restocking demand

Not only it's temporary but it's also at most a one to two time fix.
Miners can't just increase the hashrate out of the blue, they need gear to do so, and the cost for doing grows exponentially, as an example of what this would imply, with a 10% increase, meaning around 14 extra blocks a day.

We have around 350 Exahash/s in order to get 10% we need 35Exahash, which means around 250k!!! S19xp miners so
- $1,375,000,000 for new gear each two weeks
- 750 MW of power for them every two weeks.

Of course, not to mention that if we do this 7 times the hashrate would double, making mining less profitable and miners dropping, so you will get the reverse reaction after the initial spike.

Nothing that could have an impact that can be done from the miner's side!

There is absolutely nothing between those two, fees can go up and down because of a hype start or the end of it and the difficulty will simply follow the hashrate which is determined by miners and how much gear they put online or offline.

Temporarily!!!!
A huge spike in hashrate as a huge mining farm comes online might lead to more blocks than normal, so more blocks, more space, more transactions with lower fees than normal getting confirmed. But this small advantage will stop once the adjustment happens!

I don't know, I have a different way of seeing things probably but for me all this stuff it's pretty simple:
- Bitcoin means freedom, you don't need to ask anyone permission what to do with your coins
- Bitcoin is a free market, it answers to the laws of offer and demand, nothing else

Then:
- by the laws of economics when there is the demand for something, aka backspace why not acknowledge the problem?
- if people don't want to use LN as it's either too much of a headache, too complicated, or has no actual use for their needs, how do you think they will embrace it? By force? lol! Cause that has worked wonders in the past!

Since you saw my post in the other thread, what slippery slope do we choose here:
- ban ordinals, ban brc20 then orc20 tokens, then ban tumblers and mixers? Ban consolidations as you can just use coin control?
- raise the block limit once and see what happens, then raise it again if somehow we find people stupid enough to pay more than 40 million a day in fees continuously?

Anyhow, I think we're deviating from the main topic here and I'm spamming Loycev's topic, since I was the one that started it.
That said, I think there is a new adjustment needed to the title, after seeing this topic:
Delay your Bitcoin transaction for this week| Volunteer campaign
Something like, don't you dare consolidate your inputs, not you mo******! 

Not devs! Luke!
Luke is the one that wants to censor everything he doesn't like, and there is actually more, he's the one advocating for years that we should reduce the block size:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5109169.0

The whole mempool would be cleared in 8 hours of 4vMB blocks, 8 hours!
Even if they will fill it, does it matter if they fill it with 5 sat/b? No. it doesn't, just as it didn't matter when everyone was spamming the mempool with 1 sat/b ordinals, user looked at the size of the mempool, and they saw that 5-7 sat/b tx still got confirmed and nobody really cared.

The whole thing about increasing blocksize and assuming spam will keep with it reminds me of a discussion between the city councils against enlarging a road, their argument was that if we double the lines then we are going to have twice as many cars. I wondered if we increased the lanes ten times, would that mean we're going to have 3 million cars in traffic each day driven by, well, the 1 million people in my city?
It's the same here, why everyone assumes there will be 7 times more people spamming the chain with brc-20 with the same fees?. I said 7 times because right now half of the blocks are still occupied by normal tx, mostly from exchanges batching and consolidating transactions, so spam is just half of this.

Let's see if I can mash all the answers to this tsunami of ? without sending you to read a link   

People found a way to mint tokens (brc20) which theoretically are fungible tokens on the bitcoin protocol, replicating some features of erc20 tokens but with a ton of serious flaws, in short, they are using basically the same let's call it ordinal exploit to mint them.
As for trading them, I have no idea if there is a marketplace for them other than https://brc-20.io/ which looks like some 90s cms shop to me. Same for the wallet, I know there are 3 wallets that allow you to mint ordinals, like Xverse but no idea if they support brc-20 tokens, instead, you have a ton of web services where you can mint them quite cheaply if we take into account the fees we pay right now for a normal tx.
The bad news:
https://twitter.com/TheBinanceNFT/status/1655885586853425152?cxt=HHwWgMCzkeDK8fotAAAA
Binance is planning on adding ordinals, so from here just a step to adopt brc20 as the smell of cash and fat fees is probably too much for CZ.

For the numbers, OMG, just go to
https://brc-20.io/
there are nearly 15k of them, no idea about "popularity" but there must be some with an overall trade volume for 200 million a day!


Yes to all of them! And is it really a spam attack, users are simply using what's available to them, if some want to pay $1000 to mint a frog meme with their own coins, it's their right, right? 


That's why I've asked!

Not really,
The market cap of brc-20 tokens just passed 1 billion in value, it was 900 mils yesterday.


They would still be in the top 20 coins by trading volume, which is nuts!


I don't get it, what stops you from doing DCA? Besides, if you make breaks in the buying patter it stops beings average at all and more speculation!

What a load of crap!
Compare a service fee with simple payment transactions!!! OMG!

Seriously, every single crisis in bitcoin, no matter how large or small brings out some zealots that are saying ridiculous things only trying to argue that black is blue, that red is white, and blue is also white.
One of those times when is better to be a copium dealer than a heroin one.

So, can you throw some estimates?
For example how much longer it will take for a 4vMB block to propagate through the network compared to a 1vMB?
It might be also interesting to scale this appropriately and with the internet speed difference between 2009 and 2023
Cause I have a feeling hobby miners in remote regions would have had more trouble uploading 1 MB then than 10 MB now....just saying.

Same for the cost of running a full node.
What extra cost would a 4vMB imply over the next 4 years let's say compared to a 1vMB?


That boat has already sailed a decade ago:
https://btc.com/stats/pool

High fees? Checked!
Useless tokens printed in millions? Checked!
Hope the hype will die soon enough. Checked!

Despair at the possibility of another hype? In progress...

So, let's hear it first from the fans:
ORC-20: Revolutionizing The Bitcoin Network With Enhanced Features For BRC-20 Tokens
https://www.tronweekly.com/orc-20-revolutionizing-the-bitcoin-network/
So much improvement, just look at these features:



Of course, if we also read the story from the other side:
https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/orc-20-tokens/
it starts looking less hypy and more like the same thing wrapped in a different package with extra ribbons.

How will this affect the mempool, will these gain more traction than the previous brc-20, will they die even before making a few more headlines, will a new protocol come out of nowhere and flood the mempool again? I'm sure nobody has a working crystal globe to answer them all precisely.

But I'm curious about what others think the future holds!
And one thing, there is a tiny difference between what you think will happen and what you hope will!
So please focus on the first!

I got it submitted to ViaBTC, luckily I was reading this topic at around '58.
LE:
Seems like there is no real rush, 2 full minutes after the hour and only 5 out of the 100 free spots were taken.

Or you don't go out at all, and this would be the best analogy cause this is the advice everyone is giving out right now, including with the batching of payments from one week to two or even a full month. 


Why would Bitcoin keep being a store of value when its litecoin doing the things described in Bitcoin's whitepaper?
Because the first paragraph was:
and nothing of a store of value.  So yeah, coming back to your previous question,  and don't forget this is coming from a bitcoin maxi, right now Litecoin is doing better what BTC was supposed to be.

If that apocalyptic attack happens exactly after the difficulty adjustment and it wipes out let's say 90% of the hash rate prepare for months of pain while we mine enough blocks to reach a new difficulty adjustment, the last major downturn in hash rate which was gradual and only 27% ended with a full week on top of the normal 14 days period.

If all asics disappear it will take just a few centuries to mine with a with cpus the required blocks. But I guess some will wait!

I know you were joking but the fact still stands, we've ended up discussing even as a joke solution that none would have ever mentioned a month ago, it just shows that the situation is indeed really not comfortable at all.
As for what is wrong with altcoins, if you end up using LTC because it has low fees, why use Bitcoin at all?
LTC is decentralized, it's minable via POW, it has a finite supply, and has lower fees, you see what slippery slope we're getting if every time there is an issue with BTC we look at altcoins?

5. Use Paypal!  

I don't think there would be a greater insult to a bitcoiner on this forum than having to get paid in Dogecoin instead of Bitcoin and not because of some funding problems but because, wow, right now the Doge network is better at doing transactions.
Seriously how would we even dare to show our faces here or ever use the word shitcoin if we're forced to use such a thing?

As for the centralized solution, just wow, as I said, why not Paypal or let's just use bank wires?
Seriously I can't believe what we've ended up discussing here, this is just crazy!

I don't think this is an issue since we had times with blocks being half full just a month ago, if nobody wanted to make a spam attack they won't be doing it with a 4vMB block size. As for the disk space, what would be the additional cost in let's say 3 years of full x4 blocks for a node?
50k blocks a year, 150k in three years, extra 500GB!

Also:
On BTC a 1 sat/b tx costs 4 cents on Bitcoin cash it's 200 times cheaper in $ value, so you could send about 2000 of them for the price of a soda can.

And Western Union! Remember how it was expensive to pay 5$ for a 100$ cash transfer?  


Ok, let's assume everyone would be like you, and we would have those 100 million Bitcoin users in India some claim they really exist, doing a single transaction to buy stuff. Suddenly you would have 100 million tx in the mempool, not 400k. How would that work?

Let's start admitting the past mistakes, sticking to this 1vMB block size it's just stupid!
It might have sounded reasonable by 2009 costs per TB and internet speeds back then but we're in 2023 when I can get 80Mbps on my phone in the mountains and a fucking 2tb EVO is 110$.

If the protocol that was supposed to bring down the whole old order, banks, central banks, and governments, change the global economy, raise millions out of poverty will die before achieving that because:
- you can't have a few thousand pay 200$ for a full node while we brag about 10000x profits
- a horde of jpg monkeys is crashing the network with daily fees that match only what the US Navy is spending daily on one! aircraft carrier group
then we must admit something went completely wrong in the planning!

Hmm, at 13% of the hash rate and an average price of $30 000 miners in Kazakhstan made 1,281,150,000 in revenue while the government collected 7 million in taxes. And some wonder why every single government wants to tax miners more and more!!! 1.2 BILLION! in revenue and 7 mils in tax! Lol.


With block fees going closer to the block reward it will take one week of hype to pay all the taxes for one year, it's really the worst moment to complain about a 1cent increase.

Ordinals and BRC20 tokens hype and FOMO! Those are the tourists that only come once a year, throw money at expensive garbage stuff, in this case, useless NFT and tokens, and then when the season ends they leave and everything is back to normal
You can have a look at it here, a wave of people paying high fees to mint their tokens on the Bitcoin blockchain.
https://brc-20.io/


He asked for one, and that's what he got!