You can buy Bitcoins from an ATM, you can buy Bitcoins via P2P deals, it doesn't have to be a bank!
What did the first guys that tarded bitcoin used here, banks? Not even close, there were no exchanges and things still worked.

But that aside, it shows how shallow the belief that crypto is a bank killer, so basically you can't deal with crypto if you don't have a bank account in the first place, you can't take your profits, you can't exchange it with a centralized solution conveniently, so if we go further down this path, what's the point of decentralization when all the time you're entrusting your money to somebody else?
I don't know if it's ironic or plain sad!


Ever been to one? But be heaven on earth, free electricity, cheap and fast internet, no need for banks, what could you ask more?

No, that's not how it works.
Riot sold $16.5 million and $17.6 million worth of mined Bitcoin, that's revenue, not profit!
https://www.riotplatforms.com/news-media/press-releases/detail/152/riot-platforms-reports-first-quarter-2023-financial

How much has Riot made this year from mining?
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/riot/financials


Why doing this if you're so bullish on the price?:
https://www.riotplatforms.com/news-media/press-releases/detail/154/riot-announces-may-2023-production-and-operations-updates

They don't have to go after you, they will do just as all those platforms when the value goes close to what they lent you then they will liquidate it and that's it, that's why they ask for regulation on this:


Besides, some pawnshops even go as low as 30% when they give you a loan for gold so in crypto it might go down to 20%.
Checking the website they offer in rouble $532.24 for something value at $925.30 so they might have enough coverage even with Bitcoin volatility!


Think of the situation when the coins go down 60%, you get liquidated and the next day it shoots back up to the original value and you end up with the $7k you got as a loan for you BTC. Not so favorable anymore, right?

Why? Are investors losing confidence in shitcoins?
Do users realize that you don't need a blockchain to run an app like Uber?
Every single economically illiterate wanna-be rich guy over Twitter understanding that a meme coin is just a meme coin and that 99% of the world doesn't even get that meme at all?


Oh no, the horror!
I remember when traders were saying that capping the gas prices at 200E/MWh is a bad idea and it will destroy trading as nobody is selling and buying, we're at 30! Same for oil, putting a cap will reduce volatility and it will affect the markets, oh no the horror of the outcome!
The entire economy is doomed if short-term speculators will quit the scene! Please come back when I ask you to!

Yeah me! 
Everyone was going doomsday with everything going down, half of the economy shutting down, twice the total number of companies in a country going bankrupt, the euro going to parity with the cent, Europe freezing to death or driving donkeys whatever cam first, nuclear warheads for everyone at Oprah, and when you look at live cams from the beaches you will see that outside the bunker life goes on! Normal life and the economy have found a way after two world wars, numerous economic crises, and far deadlier diseases. Rember how we were doomed in 2009? It's just a repetition!

But here on this forum, a total collapse was seen as a path to 1 BTC to a billion, god knows why and how would have that worked so the cult was in full swing and gaining adepts by the thousands!


That's the definition of optimism!

A company and charity which would end with all its members in the unemployment office once there will be no more billionaires!


How is Suckerberg becoming a billionaire forcing a guy in Nigeria to be poor?
Can you show at least a hint of logic with outa triple reverse back side up front back to Neptune mental gymnastic?


Another load of crap. If that would be real then it means Bangladesh and  India are turning billion faster than Foxconn is assembling iPhones. Probably just like those illiterates that made this study, you're forgetting that in order to profit from that cheap labor they need to sell these products, and if everyone is dirt poor to whom in the name of god and logic are you going to sell them?

let me put it like this, if you had a shop, in what town you would want to sell
- one full of low-wage earners that will buy only on debt from you
- a town where everyone earns above the average and doesn't give a fuck if they hand you a $100 bill instead of $10 by mistake and doesn't ask for it back

The whole idiocracy sounds like that stupid shit conspiracy when the Illuminati are destroying the economy of 3rd world countries so they could sell them shitty products...for what? Camelshitcoins?


Oh no, those rich shareholders with which the company would never have existed in the first place and those employees would be out of a job instead of out of a bonus!


Another brain-dead stupidity, is they invest in that because PEOPLE use it, so if Hitler invested in BMW, and you would be driving a BMW daily, who is polluting, Hitler or you?


No surprise you don't understand wealth!
But anyhow:

Let me ask you something since you're here on Bitcointalk!!
Don't you think is outrageous somebody could be sending 1 billion and paying 1$ in fees while somebody that has to pay 5$ will also be charged the same?  Does this make you want to drop Bitcoin and embrace socialist coin?


👉👉 Go to sleep and read a book before!

Oh yeah, the classical WU charges us 105% of the money we send!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5426326.msg61407509#msg61407509
Also:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5342087.msg60526390#msg60526390

I've done so many simulations over this that I don't even remember which is what and where from whom!

But basically, there are so many ways to send money cheaply, instantly, without the need to go and buy Bitcoin, send Bitcoins then have your relative exchange it god knows how that it has lost much of its sparkle.
I know what foreign workers do here, they just open a bank account as they are allowed to, get a debit card, and either ship the card home or enroll it in Curve or google pay, and the relatives can use the money instantly, without the need for WU, Moneygram or anything else.


They don't need to be saved, and things do progress, I would be more concerned about access to clean water than the internet or a smartphone.
Also, the questions are invalidating concerns, as long as they have money they can spend that, bitcoin or fiat is the same, if they don't have money to spend daily then there is no need to pay 1$a  day in fees, which drastically reduced the number of transactions needed.

Your concern is more like the electric cars consumption, how will we power all of them and where which was actually driving demand down and thus invalidating the problem.


Oh yeah, the revolution Defi and lending has bought, starting with Blockfi and ending with Celsius, or the half a billion in rug pulls in Defi scam projects last year.

You're forgetting one aspect, with a  bank you can take a loan even if you don't have the money, it has worked like this for centuries, Defi you can't take one unless you have collateral which is really stupid in the first place, you're putting 200% of the loan at risk of liquidation because of a sudden dump and you end up paying twice in a matter of months. Plus, since most of the world earns its paycheck in rupias or yuans or pesos, you might end up paying twice or thrice since most give loans in USD, not devaluating Zimbabwe dollars.

To protect it from critics? Niceeee!
Do you realize that in a true democracy and in a decentralized world everyone has the right to not agree with you and to criticize everything if he doesn't like it?


This is how a normal society works, what you're trying to do by silencing critics is a commie gulag!


No, it doesn't! But people do need it, despite all this talk about decentralization most of them still try to picture somebody or something like an organization as the leaders or the one deciding the important things, that's why they use the centralized exchange, that's why they use centralized solutions even with Bitcoin, because they need someone to ask, someone to offer them support someone to blame on!
It's the same thing here, the desperate need for a leader or for someone to do their work!

You're forgetting difficulty will also go up if the price will do so, in your scenario when Bitcoin is at 400 000, the reward per th/s is 50 cents compared to 7 now and miners will not plug additional gear when an S19 is making 70$ a day burning 5$ of power?  

Use this:
https://insights.braiins.com/en/profitability-calculator
Play with both the price adjustment and the difficulty, throw in the fact that your gear might go boom, your energy price might go up twice and then you have a better picture of it!


Even if they have 99.9% of the hashrate it doesn't mean a thing, let's not even think of the other fact, they have 99.9% of the hashrate and they decide to make the coin go Pos? lol! No matter how much hash rate you have you will not be able to stop anyone to ignore and never stop using the old code!


No, it's not, that's not how a fork works.
They could do it without a single S1 mining and they could end with a dead coin like Bitcoin gold when if they had 99.00% of the hashing power.

Probably only they do know, but if a 3% drop in overall hashrate would have been caused by them alone they would have gone under 30% in the last 3 days which they aren't. 31.97 % over the last 24h 32.86 % over the last 3 days, so assuming no normal variations, they have lost less than 3% of their total, so splitting into 3 states, would be less than 10% in one. This unless four hours from now luck changes and they go back to 32.80%!


I was probably more focused on the math some need to do that not only guarantees a profit, but also ROI for the equipment, and expenses, and that grants investors more returns than shoveling their money in government bonds. To get more gear they need more money upfront, so how are they going to attract a few billions when their statements are looking suicidal at best?! 686.7 million net loss, I know it includes impairments and unrealized losses but still, not the best thing at which you would want to throw money at, right?

To be honest I've never understood the politics in that area, Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, it's all a puzzle for me, but there are scars or misconceptions and some might not forget minor things from the past giving them more weight than recent events. So without going into politics too much, it can be worse, it's one thing to take sides in a conflict, a different thing to be completely retarded
Mexican President Posts Photo Of What He Claims Is An Elf

Oh and btw, I didn't know Milanovic's name either!   Actually I don't know the name of the prime minister either! Probably the only politician I know in that area is Orban, and not because of his achievements either!


With what money?  
As I was saying in the previous post:

Dumbest? No! Just lazy! And there are a ton fo dumb scams nobody sane would fall for them!

Herbs curing covid?
Trying to sell 100 UST worth 5$ for 100$
Giving away for free is a method to make
An USDT cloud mining website?

And large scale: The tooth brush miner!


Judging by the amounts of scammers which is a clue this is still lucrative and victims coming to the forum, we're in the 40's.
Btw, if you talk about being dumb, how does it sound to have a fake model girlfriend stealing for over 15 years from you close to a million euros?
https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/11/27/61a278d922601d0a288b45a5.html

I doubt you can find a month in the last 5 years when there weren't at least 10 articles about an ETF.
It's the same reheated pretzel all over again, people thinking a trillion of $ will be used to buy BTC, the price will spike up and they can finally make som profits after buying in the last FOMO. What's more tragic and comic on top of that is that a ton of them don't even know how this ETF will work but it smells of money so it must be good!


So? They've let Tesla also yet they've sued Tesla a hundred times, Intel, Dell, and Amazon in securities law violations what's the problem?
Once you get on the stock exchange you're getting a blank check or something?

The funny thing is when the SEC proposed that Binance.us would follow rules that would prevent another FTX everyone was screaming about the evil gubbermint,  when FTX Japan returned all the funds since the regulations in Japan worked everyone forgot that Binance fled Japan exactly because of those as they didn't want to comply with them!

That's a load of crap coming from Bitcoin Depot!
The moment the assets were seized and it was a lawful request they could have simply shut up and just let it go, it was a clear scam attempt, now what they are demanding is that every single of those assets to still be held by them till a judge decides to return the money to the victim, what they are basically after is to keep the money if the victim isn't able to convince the judge it was a fraud. Pure BS!
You have an 82 yo gramma coming to an ATM now knowing what Bitcoin is and you still have the nerve to talk about minor paperwrok.

They know their ATMs are mostly used for this thing, nobody sane in the mind would pay a 10% premium when there are one hundred other cheaper solutions. Not to think of the risks of carrying 15k in cash on you till you drive to that gas station.

Also, lol:


What they managed is to have the worse publicity move ever, I wonder if after reading this how many will still think of using their ATMs.

This is my first intervention in this topic in the last 30:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5437464.msg62427173#msg62427173


So, it's not really why we don't do it, more like what the f**8 we're going to do if we don't do that!


Dynamical or why not implement the opposite of halving for the block size, we have a halving in the reward a doubling in the block size. If we look at disk price and internet speed we;'re already 12 years behind compared to 2009, so we would have at least 2 decades to see if it works or no!


And do you have a timeline on how long it will take for every single let's say US citizen to open and close let's say twice a second layer LN channel with a 1MB block? Or you can forget the US, let's just say 10% of the world, that's 800 million people, so 3.2 billion in and outs of a second layer.
Is it doable?

Yes, the halving is correct but not the sums, the block reward is 6.25 BTC per block and will be halved to 3.125BTC per block


No, but you can check in some back alleys, maybe you will get an old cat lady with a more accurate crystal ball.
But don't pay upfront for the prediction!



Anyone can fork Bitcoin and have their own version, you can do it also if you have basic knowledge.
There is already a Bitcoin Pos fork:
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoinpos/

But, you can't force people to use your forked coin! That is in a normal country, if we talk about NK style, that's different!

That would be the normal outcome but there are a few variables:
- recession and manufacturing drop, which means more available cheap energy almost everywhere
- the money printing starts again and easy credits and easy investment money are back on the loose
- although I doubt it, some serious improvement in chip efficiency, 15J/T maybe

I tend to agree with your reasoning but at the same time, I won't be surprised to see the hash rate hit 80-90T even with the price around 50k.
From a miner's perspective it might have no logic, but for some "investors", god knows what's the logic behind their actions.


1 Month: 1   Foundry USA   32.25 %   1,415   
1 Week: 1   Foundry USA   31.43 %   112.76 EH/s
3 Days: 1   Foundry USA   32.24 %   115.67 EH/s
24 H: 1 Foundry USA   35.97 %   129.05 EH/s   

Hmm, not convinced!

And yet I didn't see you protesting about the fact that Bukele has never released proof of his Bitcoin buyouts, never protested against a centralized wallet requiring KYC, never protested about the government in control of your cryptos, and I know it already why because that was good for the price!!!

That's the difference between having some moral standards and doesn't use doubles ones depending on the APY  involved.
You're protecting CZ and Binance, a centralized entity that has no room in the original Satoshi world just because...it's against the government.
Did you also cheer on FTX and SBF breaking every government rule also? Guess not!

So, who should I support, the guy saying this:
Or a piece of shit that has only one purpose, of replacing every decentralized coin with one of his Binance coin?


When?

The discussion started about the reward being gone, you're still relying on the block reward, what happens when that ain't no more, cause you mentioned thinking for longterm and not short-term solutions like the one I proposed/
Block 765431 (765432 was not full  ) , had only $2,156 in fees, those will be the ones guaranteeing the network protection.
It's no other way round you either have enough people to pay for it or you don't!

The only time the current block reward was matching the fees was when we had a media of $20 per tx, do you think that will keep being the norm, and people will till pay for it?
Not to mention you're forgetting another aspect, right now 100k a block for miners guarantees a level of protection that means you have to spend 10 billion in order to attack Bitcoin, valued at 600 billion market cap. What happens when the total value of the network will be 10 trillion, will 10 billion in protection be enough?
See, I'm thinking long-term, far longer than you thought, and sorry to say but your solution right now is wait and see!


Where a full block of fees paying 2-5 satoshi/b guarantees a level of protection that means you need 10% of the market cap to attack it.


400k a day?  
If you say that is a definition of adoption then you agree where on the same level as dogecoin!
Btw, the last block fees were $9,327, 5% of the total reward, you will either have people paying 20 times as much or, quite interesting have 20x times more people paying the same. That would mean 8 million transactions or 1/3 the number of card transactions Visa and MasterCard do in France alone.


Then with what? Binance or Coinbase credits? Bank of America IOU bitcoin?


There was no explanation but a reason, and that was spam.

And there is a more interesting thing, garzik introduced a patch to increase the size limit, Satoshi opposed because of incompatibility but his words were
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15139#msg15139