1841
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"
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on: February 08, 2016, 11:06:30 PM
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The megabucks are only necessary when one wants to mass-produce chips by filling entire wafers with them. The quantification of possible market is also completely different story from the R&D costs.
Well that sentence is the only thing that matters. Sure anyone can design an SHA core for "free" (which many people including hobbyists have done on this forum and elsewhere). I don't think anyone is saying it takes millions of R&D to layout a SHA core. Getting that free core on usable silicon is all about those megabucks. No matter who you know or whether you a top level silicon engineer at Intel or AMD, you still need the couple million for that mask, minimum wafer order and packaging etc. to have a usable and sellable chip (and of course that dosent even cover the fact that SHA cores in the least chips are no longer just drop and place IP Blocks like they were when the first ASICS came out).
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1842
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"
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on: February 08, 2016, 10:58:17 PM
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Here is an even better perspective...the combined trading volume for BTC was around 50mil over the last 24 hours. Even if Bitmain decided to dump all 8 mil of their holdings at once on a single exchange (which would be very dumb and they would never do that), the price would crash to around $320-350 depending on the exchange, and would quickly recover.
Even the largest mining companies have less and less say on the economics of bitcoin, and the will be even more true come summer. Thats by design and how its supposed to work. Right now and into the future its going to be all about breaking bitcoin into mass adoption, and that will dictated its acceptance or failure in the long term...not mining. All the miners will eventually just eat themselves to death haha.
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1844
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"
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on: February 08, 2016, 06:01:53 AM
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2 exahash by March....this round of chips is going to be interesting to watch what it does to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Especially with the halving around the corner. All home miners are 100% out and most small to medium mines will be put out of business. If price does not keep up with this diff soon we're going to have trouble.
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1848
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"
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on: February 02, 2016, 08:20:40 PM
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As for Apple accepting 40% yield per wafer, for initial runs - yes. That is between them and the foundries. I guarantee that with their clout they are only paying for the good chips and forcing the foundries to eat the scrap.Their only compensation is that Apple and other customers know that initial pricing will be very high to finance the R&D needed and capital equipment costs. Worse for the foundries is pricing is based on a mandatory rapidly downward sliding price per-chip giving foundries great incentive to get better.
Exactly...Apple has pretty much financed probably a huge chunk of R&D costs for the last few die shrinks. Their deal probably works something along the lines of "here are billions of dollars, buy the equipment and create the process for x node, and gives us 10 million chips by this date....we don't care what your yield is." Of course this is a win win for both parties...apple gets its new energy efficient Ax chips first, and the foundries develop a working process for that node and make their profits from the customers of the likes of Nvidia and bitfury
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1849
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"
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on: February 01, 2016, 09:50:11 PM
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Does anyone know what the price of these new chips would be?
Get a mining calculator on the same day the ship is ship-able. Calculate the return the chip generates (at 100 GHash/s) per month with the NEXT (estimated) difficulty. Multiply that number by 8 (this is when it should break even). And there you have it ... the price of one chip. Right now the cost would be: Next est. Difficulty: 1.52542370411e+11 with 100 GH/s per month: 0.01003473 BTC multiplied by 8: 0.08027784 BTC total cost per chip (in a functioning miner ... PSU, housing etc. included) which currently results in 30.45 USD Enjoy! But this calculation was good for 28nm chips, so, you need to divide this number by 16(nm) and multiply it by 28(nm). End result would be $53.28 So, what you guys mean to say is that these chips would cost $30 - $50 /Chip, am I right? If I assume that the chips cost me $45/chip an I need to achieve a hashing power of 10.2Th/s on immersion cooling I would require 60 chips and these chips would cost me $2700 Whoa!! thats a staggering amount. Between I have my fingers crossed for the prices. Unless it's a really bad design this chip should cost them about $3 to make (packaged). That's assuming 5 million chip quantities or 500 PH. What will they sell it for? Much more than this, that's for sure but I'd guess they want to give buyers a hope that they can pay back their costs in about 6-9 months, so probably around $8 for volume buyers, $10.50 for the plebs. The (QFN?) package should be about $0.20 . This means, if your assumption is right, they would spend about $2.80 for the pure die. How much is a 16nm wafer? Maybe about $9k if they make a good deal with TSMC? This would result in about 3200 good dies per wafer. Right? 70000 mm˛ per 300 mm wafer and assuming 90% yield a single die size would be about 20 mm˛ (4.5mm x 4.5mm), which would fit to the package size. 8162 rolled cores; 65 clock cycles per hash -> equals about 125 unrolled cores; A single semi-custom (standard cell based) unrolled core has an area of about 0.3 mm˛ in 28nm. Implemented based on unrolled cores in 28nm a chip with equivalent performance would have a size of about 37.5 mm˛. Taking the area scaling of a factor of 2 from 28nm to 16nm into account, the unrolled semi-custom version of the chip would have 18.75 mm˛ in 16nm (but would be probably not that efficient). So I have to agree, your estimation is feasible and should be close to reality. very close
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1851
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Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [RUN 2 NOW OPEN][SIDEHACK STICK]GekkoScience Compac Official sales thread
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on: January 29, 2016, 08:31:38 PM
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Printed very large in the first post of this thread, with only slight modifications for emphasis on some things a heck of a lot of people have somehow been overlooking this week (specifically, that 750 - 189 = a buttload of sticks left for sale; take a note of that, four people who have messaged me since yesterday): SECOND RUN QUEUE: 189 sticks paid (0 shipped)
Sales for the second run of Compacs is now open. I will be assembling using pulled chips, but every Compac will still have the same testing requirements and warranty. Delivery should start in the middle of February. Total batch size about 750 sticks.
... here's the official process: 1. Calculate the total cost of your order: 1a - $25 for every stick desired. 1b - US Domestic Priority Shipping: 1-5 sticks $6; 4-20 sticks $10 1c - International shipping, 1-10 sticks: $15 first-class (2-3 week); $25 Priority (6-10 days) 2. If you bought one of those t-shirts (and can prove it) knock off $5 from the total. 3a. Bitcoin payment: Convert this US dollar value to bitcoin and send it (from an address you control) to our for-this-project sandwich address 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr 3b. PayPal payment: The above-calculated dollar value can be sent to sales@gekkoscience.com 4. Sign a message (maybe something about sandwiches) with the sent-from address and send the message, TXID, quantity purchased and your shipping address to me in a PM, or in an email to sales@gekkoscience.comBTW check out USPS prices...they just hiked everything this week. I just realized this shipping some of my sticks. (priority international flat rate box went from 26-34 for example).
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1856
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: [CLOSED] Official FutureBit MoonLander USB Scrypt Stick Order Thread
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on: January 21, 2016, 11:39:31 PM
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Will there be anymore batches of the FutureBit MoonLander USB Scrypt Stick run?
No these are the last chips...I have a 100 boards left over which I might assemble if I get around to it after I finish shipping. Resellers will have around 150 units once they all get them so plenty to go around. Hopefully you keep the boards for when new chips are available to you, a quick new version would be nice. Yep I'm getting new chips in a few weeks so well see what I can do with them
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1858
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: [CLOSED] Official FutureBit MoonLander USB Scrypt Stick Order Thread
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on: January 15, 2016, 07:17:15 AM
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So first couple shipments went out...I think I underestimated the amount of time it would take to clean these up from assembly, program them, and prep them for shipment. I should be able to ship another 50 units or so tomorrow so that should cover most of the first half of the orders. Unfortunately I wont be able to get to the bottom half until I get back from my trip.
Whoever has not paid yet does not have to pay until the 22/23rd, which is when the second batch of shipments will go out.
I think I've caught up with PMs and the order sheet should be up to date...time for some sleep!
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1859
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: [CLOSED] Official FutureBit MoonLander USB Scrypt Stick Order Thread
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on: January 14, 2016, 07:48:19 PM
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Looking at list I see a decent amount have paid for full order it appears. Should I pay you now for the rest still owed? Just wanting to check and make sure I did not miss something about paying the rest. If the people on the bottom want to pay thats up to you guys, some already have with the understanding that I might not be able to ship out their unit until after the weekend I get back on the 23rd. Ive also read all your PMs and am getting your payments, I cant updated the sheet or reply to anyone today because im swamped with trying to ship out the payments I got yesterday. Ill reply to everyone later tonight and hopefully ship out everything by tomorrow. BTW this is what my bench currently looks like
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