I think you're on to something here! Run it past them. I'm sure quite a few wish this option was available a year ago and they chose it. ION wouldn't even exist. Aaaaaahhhhhhh...ION is YOUR fault!
There is no doubt. It's always the trolls' fault. I'm sure that's what Garza is telling the alphabet people right now. As for the savings plan itself - it won't work unless it has a snazzy website with some kind of a gadget showing how much you saved. Those customers have high standards you know. Maybe a flying rocket ship with a count down for locking the vault before take off? I could have a changing hash rate security combo lock to show its under lock and key and protected and offer different plans like 3,6 and 9 month protection. The money unlocks after that date depending on how gullible you are.. if you are really gullible you should take the 9 month protection plan. That way long term you are protected from your btc so as not to use it. Your children will thank me when they get to go to college because you can still afford it. I could put some testimonials up too |
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I think truths will be uncovered with due time, if i were him i would be preoccupied on my project instead of giving people peace of mind of his innocence on this forum. That's just the way I see it.
But what the fuck do I know right ?
I guess a year ago josh garza was preoccupied with his project instead of giving people peace of mind of his innocence on this forum? Thats the way that it can be seen too. But correct what the fuck do you know right? |
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thats paycoin not ionomy... im referring to masternodes if the ion team will make them.. how they pay themselves the payment addresses of premine to watch the burn addresses of xpy why they didn't just give customers direct personal burn addresses to allocate instead of this lame excuse it crashes every 100k send we know paycoin is revolutionary shady. i want to see ion. But of course the retort from huey aka adam matlack is just like garza.... provide info just because we say so haha like he posted on his slack. He says nothing like garza... thats a comment EXACTLY LIKE GARZA... If adam was different he'd be lining up to prove he isn't and answer the questions and show the info. He's the same just quieter behind the scenes and playing the wronged person violin. He's afraid to come on here and answer the hard questions. He is lowering the already low reputation every day that he hides behind Slack. I can't for the life of me figure out why they are so arrogant to honk they don't have to prove anything to anybody nor be transparent. Unbelievable attitude coming from the XPY crew...biggest scam of 2015. They aren't hard questions they are easy questions. They are hard because they don't have a way to answer it without exposing what they are really doing. Its how business works. If you cry trolls are the reason we failed then you were destined to fail from the beginning. If its legit and there is nothing shady its easy to stand tall answer the questions. The truth beats any amount of negative press thrown at you. Ionomy is just xpy with a new coat of paint. Its the same prime controller, staker plan with changed values under a new name. Its like pepsi and coke they are both cola... the difference is neither company denies its cola. Ionomy is trying to say its in no way xpy influenced. It clearly is. I just feel sorry for the people on this bandwagon. Though *sigh* im sure in 7 months there will be another coin with a ion trade in and mrcoins will be here again to say its not like ion or xpy i've done my research. You just can't help some people. Maybe i should start up a coin protection program. Basically all the xpy and ion folks give me 10btc each. I hold it and refuse to give it to them until the next scam coin goes down. Then i return to them 9btc and keep 1btc myself. I call this a savings plan because by holding their 10btc i saved them losing 9btc of it... i simply take 1btc as my cost. They get 9btc back instead of the 9 they would have lost in the investment. Ingenious hey? |
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Maybe some of the questions are up to the team to answer. But I will try to answer a few.
The xpy.io platform was in beta, until recently, but there was already a working XPY/BTC exchange integrated for some months, in fact the day it went live, Bittrex volume of traded XPY dropped significantly. There was a revenue share, the XPY BiTS Fund, and there have been some nice payouts to the BiTS holders. I have not seen any beta mobile wallet or debit card.
That's right, now that you mentioned it I think I recall someone posting about the exchange a while ago. Has it been converted to handle ION? How about XPY (ION?) Store? Any sign of that? Honestly too after cryptsy and xpy fiasco i don't think bittrex or poloniex would risk ion. They have other cash cows like ltc, btc and eth all giving them enough capital anyway. I would hope they don't step into dodgy territory like this. Bittrex might list it if ionomists pay the 3 BTC fee. Even the ridiculous BitStone was listed there almost immediately after launch. https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202583854-Submitting-a-Coin-to-Bittrex-Updated-02-29-16Poloniex - not sure what their policies are but I would imagine perhaps a bit stricter than 'trex. There is always Yobit and Cryptopia if all else fails  cryptopia actually has requirements for coin submission. If there is ico or high premine it gets rejected.. see their submission page. It has xpy on it with rejected near it... the reason is in their words - clearly a scam. I assume they know they won't get anywhere so will likely try to run their own exchange and mark it as exclusive to help price floor or some shit. The reality will be very different i.e. polo etc won't want to touch them. |
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thats paycoin not ionomy... im referring to masternodes if the ion team will make them.. how they pay themselves the payment addresses of premine to watch the burn addresses of xpy why they didn't just give customers direct personal burn addresses to allocate instead of this lame excuse it crashes every 100k send we know paycoin is revolutionary shady. i want to see ion. But of course the retort from huey aka adam matlack is just like garza.... provide info just because we say so haha like he posted on his slack. He says nothing like garza... thats a comment EXACTLY LIKE GARZA... If adam was different he'd be lining up to prove he isn't and answer the questions and show the info. He's the same just quieter behind the scenes and playing the wronged person violin. |
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Maybe some of the questions are up to the team to answer. But I will try to answer a few.
The xpy.io platform was in beta, until recently, but there was already a working XPY/BTC exchange integrated for some months, in fact the day it went live, Bittrex volume of traded XPY dropped significantly. There was a revenue share, the XPY BiTS Fund, and there have been some nice payouts to the BiTS holders. I have not seen any beta mobile wallet or debit card.
That's right, now that you mentioned it I think I recall someone posting about the exchange a while ago. Has it been converted to handle ION? How about XPY (ION?) Store? Any sign of that? Honestly too after cryptsy and xpy fiasco i don't think bittrex or poloniex would risk ion. They have other cash cows like ltc, btc and eth all giving them enough capital anyway. I would hope they don't step into dodgy territory like this. |
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In short these guys are going to get screwed.... adam matlack and his fellow untransparent team will claw back some of their xpy losses and be happy but many others will lose to make them whole. They know this. The intention isn't for the coin to become something great but to mitigate "their losses".
If it was based on the coin there would be
- no ico
- no premine
- mining phase that allowed all to compete fairly and equally i.e. no ninja launch
Adam Matlack and the others would buy their coins like everyone else and this would give them incentive to do something as their risked money would be inspiration to make something great.
At present those that bought ico bought a cloned mix of dash and blackcoin. This isn't something like ethereum that in itself was an extensive addition to what bitcoins base was. You are buying an ico into 2 open source mixed products. There is nothing new here.
The only reason to have a premine that big and allow them to start way ahead is to profit themselves. I don't understand why you people give them power and money then worship them after you've put them on that pedestal. Its moronic.
Ionomy is just some silly web game hub many of which already exist that don't use bitcoin or any crypto.
Start thinking for yourselves and do some numbers through the investment emotion aside and question it highly.. its your money in it not theirs... they OWE you answers not silence. If you get free advice here for questions to ask and don't pursue them you are being dense... what have you got to lose to ask these questions of the devs? If they are good like you say then they can answer them easily.... if they dodge them isn't that something to be concerned about? They need to give hard answers to those questions not round about answers that say we'll do this at date x.... they know EVERYTHING about the project as they masterminded it... if they don't know then they are unprepared and not worth continuing with.
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Don't forget everyone when ion launches with that block explorer start at the genesis block and see whats actually premined... track it to masternodes.. For those that missed it check over what the lack of answers to basic transparency questions can and likely will lead to
Lets play stats since i like to number crunch a little to help me decide things.
Lets start with some knowns that were stated in announcement and whitepaper
BTC price @ $450
$1.00 in satoshi is 0.00222222
0.20c in satoshi is 0.00044444
0.10c in satoshi is 0.00022222
Ion
Blocks (1440 per day)
- 1 min blocks (60 blocks an hour)
- 1440 blocks per day (24 x 60)
Masternodes
- 50% of block reward
- 1st year is 11.5 per block
- a masternode costs 20,000 ion which is locked whilst in masternode.
Rewards per block
- year 1 --> 23 per block (really 11.5 as 11.5 goes to masternode owner)
- year 2 --> 17 per block (really 8.5 as 8.5 goes to masternode owner)
Premine (10.9 million all up)
- 3.4 million to incentives and give aways
- 2.5 million to bounties and coin development
- 5.0 million to ico customers
Prices
- ico price starting 20c going to 25c
- xpy swap equiv 8:1 around 8c
NOW for the unknown questions
--------------------
- since they are their escrow and haven't detailed how funds are released who is paid and paid what and how often. For all we know the could be their own devs paying themselves "until a decent one is found or whatever". They could pay themselves x to do the clone and change or pay a coin server to make it for a low price x and pay themselves a management fee or whatever.
- Funds haven't been deemed to be in a locked state not used for any other purpose in the meantime so we have to assume that they "can" be.
Ok lets get cracking.....
total premine - estimated deducted
10.9m - 1.25m (xpy swap) - 1.5m (potential sold due to $300,000 figure mentioned @ 20c)
= 8,150,000 ion coins sitting around
lets turn this all into masternodes (to secure the network of course)
8,150,000 / 20,000
= 407.5 masternodes... so lets round this down to 400 masternodes for a nice round calculation remember we are dealing with unknown potentials so lets keep it rough.
OK now lets see what the masternodes make per day. If 1 masternode secured all the transactions then
day value = 1440 blocks * 50% block reward
= 1440 * 11.5
= 16,560 ion generated.
Now the only competing masternodes ARE those that ico bought not xpy swapped (these are locked in 6,9,12 stakers and i'm sure they aren't removable as why would you let customers compete with your sales?).
So customer masternodes assuming 1 person purchased ALL ico (remember being rough so we can get max masternodes customers could have)
1,500,000 / 20,000
= 75
So all up we have 400 company nodes and 75 customer nodes..
company percent = 400 / 475 * 100 = 84.21% approx.. lets round this down to 84%
customer percent = 75 / 475 * 100 = 15.78% approx... lets round this up to 16% so we get a nice 100% combined.
so... 16,500 ion a day in masternodes
company = 16500 * 0.84 = 13,860 (or another masternode every 2 days to increase their percent)
customer = 16500 * 0.16 = 2640 (or a masternode every 8 days to increase their percent comapny is faster)
OK apologies for the length but we are getting there...
- Nobody sells for less than they buy unless its out of fear which is usually after time to transfer assets if unhappy or drops in price in panic
- stakers are all locked in so they have to wait
- most want to stake to return price and make profit
- only those that don't pay for their coins will sell at any price (company)
- company could masternode profit with the capital before use.
So in 9 months there is restricted market competition as long as someone with free coins sold less than those with paid.
Ignore the 8c xpy conversion ones as those are locked... therefore the minimum fear sell value is 20c (or less again if you have free)
Lets assume 20c a coin it stays at max and 5c at min.
If all masternode coins were sold at a point or over time you'd make (ignoring coins made from daily node rewards)
@ 20c --> 8,150,000 * 0.20 = $1,630,000
@ 5c --> 8,150,000 * 0.05 = $407,500
Node profits "per day" if they don't sell any masternodes ... from before
company - 13,860 * 0.20 = $2772 max and 13,860 * 0.05 = $693 min
customer - 2,640 * 0.20 = $528 max and 2640 * 0.05 = $132 min
therefore you can make in 9 months (270 days)
$2772 * 270 = $748,440 with no real competition then sell masternodes back OR you can make some more nodes sell some as cash.
to buy a masternode is 20,000 x $0.20 or $4000 ... days to break even on it are crazy if you are competing with the above and have 1.. your percent decreases each day as the highers earn more and more to create more masternodes.
Closing remarks
-------------------
Does everyone now see how important transparency is? Simple things like tracking addresses and keeping people honest and doing calcs for some due dilligence show you how potentially bad your investment could be. Don't take this as investment advice do the figures yourself and make your mind up but personally with comments like
- we can't trust third parties to hold coins they could run
- refusing to provide info and respond to questions
Can lead to the above scenario of pain. The only people with nothing to lose are those with free premines. Those who spend have to at least make what they buy for with price.
You might say BUT BUT BUT the coin will go up. Well thats great but remember
- preminers have more coins than you to exhaust so can reduce that price.
- pumps can happen by others but again they can sell.
There so data... take it to bits look at it contest it etc.
@MrCoins i assume you did the above and can explain why in your opinion and case it seemed to you to be worth risking with little to no info other than whitepaper.
Be aware this is public info on their site and this topic 1st post so anything others know that isn't available to all buyers i guess is inside information and maybe insider trading?
Comments thoughts etc? Sorry for the long ass post but had to put it all together... this gives people a point to look at AND DEMAND addresses premine burn etc are all public. Garza's stand was we aren't giving it to people just because they don't believe us... those that agreed were fooled once.. time to not be fooled again.
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So what happens if Josh goes to jail for (20+ years) I hope and ION ends up being half decent or fails and it is evident Josh is not in the picture..what happens then ?
Many of you really have it out for adam, obviously he wasn't involved in any shady shit, he was a victim like many other people but he stepped up with individuals and tried to save it (despite its inevitable doom)...the only one lawyering up is josh.
And you have to give the man respect for not completely abandoning everything crypto after dealing with false accusations and threats..even involving his fucking church. He tried to save investors money that Josh Ran away with and got burned.. Nobody is putting a gun to your heads telling you to invest in ION but let it be...Josh being involved in anything ION is a crazy thought, a lot of you lack logic and are great at hiding behind a screen.
Grow the fuck up, even if the coin fails..don't you pizza face virgin crypto investors believe in something more than destroying each other ?
For a decentralized system brought on by cyberculture to bring power to the people, you are all worse then the middle east and their insatiable need to be savages.
So how do you know he is innocent as fact? You speak like you know adam inside out which only someone inside his head could know. Also remember all the josh is a good guy stuff its the trolls etc at the start? I presented stats above for numbers showing what they can do with masternodes and their premine etc. There is no transparency with how these funds are to be used, what they are paying each other, who does what etc. So how is it you can evaluate their intentions when there is no transparency on these easy to answer questions to simple questions to ensure this? Seems to me you are acting on emotion of wanting the project to succeed without doing due dilligence of the actual facts. |
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Well that explains the stay, building the paycoin case while pushing a plea deal for both. Iocon seems to be scared too.
adam matlack is damn scared. mention association and he gets fearful. makes me suspect he spilt his guts to save himself. adam also you dont have to profit to be involved. joe knew and lied profit or not hes accountable. me thinks sec might like to know about ionomy and their past with garza. they'd probably enjoy watching paycoin 2 from the start as a case study. note - ionomy still refuses to comment on masternodes and shows no transparency on pay, burns, ico etc. very shady and secretive. |
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the wallet won't send over 100,000 xpy at a time without crashing and the wallet.dat becomes corrupt after a few burnings due to the crashes. They then need to recover the wallets to resume burning. There are 4 million that still need burning.
Good lord! I knew the wallet was bad, but no wonder they needed to leave XPY in the dust. why didnt the ionomy devs fix the small wallet bug then burn? why didnt they generate burn addresses for each customer and check address before giving ion? use a block explorer and do it that way to avoid double handling? They seem to be afraid of or against the blockchain. They do everything in their power to keep things off chain so information is obscured. i got it. maybe the burn address is 1burn..... genius... GAWsome |
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the wallet won't send over 100,000 xpy at a time without crashing and the wallet.dat becomes corrupt after a few burnings due to the crashes. They then need to recover the wallets to resume burning. There are 4 million that still need burning.
Good lord! I knew the wallet was bad, but no wonder they needed to leave XPY in the dust. why didnt the ionomy devs fix the small wallet bug then burn? why didnt they generate burn addresses for each customer and check address before giving ion? use a block explorer and do it that way to avoid double handling? |
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The most important thing is not the conversion price of XPY swap, but it was really happened or not.
In many case, a coin dev burns the unsold amount of ICO from premine. then let people know it via blockchain with Tx.
I've keep asked ION team of burning the rest. Mr.coin told me that Huey(Adam ?) is too busy to burn. I wonder he is still busy.
I like concept of this coin.
I've really enjoyed red rocket of Zencloud. I really like game, especially Battle Field4.
However, I can't trust this coin.
He's too busy to click 5 times and type a value in? |
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I bought XPY so I could get in on the ICO. What's up with the half-assed calculation? if the low was about 2.1 cents that 8*2.1 cents = 16.8. So really about 17 cents. More than double the projection of @o0o0 who says people bought in at 8 cents / ION. And just a percent over @beatgang's calculations. But also not many XPY were being sold at the lows of 2.1. Of course, the bottom fell out of the market when that part of the ICO ended. The price of XPY crashed to the 1800-2000 sat level only after they shut down the XPY purchasing. That was nail in the coffin for XPY. But before that it was mostly above 5000 sats. At the time BTC was probably worth closer to $420, so it would have been about 2.1 cents/XPY. That would make the lowest purchase price about 16 cents per ION. But who knows, there were probably a lot of people who paid a lot more for the XPY than two cents. Some of them probably bought in at $4 or more, so I wouldn't expect 1.25 million dumped on the open market.
But at @o0o0, good point: by the time I get these out of the stakers they could be devalued lower than what i paid if the hosts of the ICO dump or if there's a panic dump. It's a risk I'm willing to take. Eyes wide open. @Arrakeen, your post is hilarious: $4600.00 for a masternode?
You're literally charging us to help you...better change that strategy a bit before you get any btc from anyone with half a brain... Did you get a bill for a masternode? If so, it means you actually sent them BTC. If you didn't get a bill, it means you didn't buy anything. I run DASH and have run DARK. Nobody gave away those masternodes for free. You think they should be given away free to help the network? lololol I'll have to do my own calculations on ION masternodes. One thing is sure: It's more profitable to buy the ION for a masternode at 20 cents than at 25. Either way, you can run a node or you can dump the coins, assuming there's some market to trade on. The calculations had to be "rough" BECAUSE they don't give any transparent information. The point of the above calculations though show a possibility that can be done due to them not being transparent on figures. When you dangle a truckload of cash in front of someone tell me there isn't temptation to do it. Big vern, mark karpeles of mt gox, josh garza.... history repeats |
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Posted this in ionomy.. guess it can't hurt here incase something happens to it seeing as this topic has ionomy in it
Lets play stats since i like to number crunch a little to help me decide things.
Lets start with some knowns that were stated in announcement and whitepaper
BTC price @ $450
$1.00 in satoshi is 0.00222222
0.20c in satoshi is 0.00044444
0.10c in satoshi is 0.00022222
Ion
Blocks (1440 per day)
- 1 min blocks (60 blocks an hour)
- 1440 blocks per day (24 x 60)
Masternodes
- 50% of block reward
- 1st year is 11.5 per block
- a masternode costs 20,000 ion which is locked whilst in masternode.
Rewards per block
- year 1 --> 23 per block (really 11.5 as 11.5 goes to masternode owner)
- year 2 --> 17 per block (really 8.5 as 8.5 goes to masternode owner)
Premine (10.9 million all up)
- 3.4 million to incentives and give aways
- 2.5 million to bounties and coin development
- 5.0 million to ico customers
Prices
- ico price starting 20c going to 25c
- xpy swap equiv 8:1 around 8c
NOW for the unknown questions
--------------------
- since they are their escrow and haven't detailed how funds are released who is paid and paid what and how often. For all we know the could be their own devs paying themselves "until a decent one is found or whatever". They could pay themselves x to do the clone and change or pay a coin server to make it for a low price x and pay themselves a management fee or whatever.
- Funds haven't been deemed to be in a locked state not used for any other purpose in the meantime so we have to assume that they "can" be.
Ok lets get cracking.....
total premine - estimated deducted
10.9m - 1.25m (xpy swap) - 1.5m (potential sold due to $300,000 figure mentioned @ 20c)
= 8,150,000 ion coins sitting around
lets turn this all into masternodes (to secure the network of course)
8,150,000 / 20,000
= 407.5 masternodes... so lets round this down to 400 masternodes for a nice round calculation remember we are dealing with unknown potentials so lets keep it rough.
OK now lets see what the masternodes make per day. If 1 masternode secured all the transactions then
day value = 1440 blocks * 50% block reward
= 1440 * 11.5
= 16,560 ion generated.
Now the only competing masternodes ARE those that ico bought not xpy swapped (these are locked in 6,9,12 stakers and i'm sure they aren't removable as why would you let customers compete with your sales?).
So customer masternodes assuming 1 person purchased ALL ico (remember being rough so we can get max masternodes customers could have)
1,500,000 / 20,000
= 75
So all up we have 400 company nodes and 75 customer nodes..
company percent = 400 / 475 * 100 = 84.21% approx.. lets round this down to 84%
customer percent = 75 / 475 * 100 = 15.78% approx... lets round this up to 16% so we get a nice 100% combined.
so... 16,500 ion a day in masternodes
company = 16500 * 0.84 = 13,860 (or another masternode every 2 days to increase their percent)
customer = 16500 * 0.16 = 2640 (or a masternode every 8 days to increase their percent comapny is faster)
OK apologies for the length but we are getting there...
- Nobody sells for less than they buy unless its out of fear which is usually after time to transfer assets if unhappy or drops in price in panic
- stakers are all locked in so they have to wait
- most want to stake to return price and make profit
- only those that don't pay for their coins will sell at any price (company)
- company could masternode profit with the capital before use.
So in 9 months there is restricted market competition as long as someone with free coins sold less than those with paid.
Ignore the 8c xpy conversion ones as those are locked... therefore the minimum fear sell value is 20c (or less again if you have free)
Lets assume 20c a coin it stays at max and 5c at min.
If all masternode coins were sold at a point or over time you'd make (ignoring coins made from daily node rewards)
@ 20c --> 8,150,000 * 0.20 = $1,630,000
@ 5c --> 8,150,000 * 0.05 = $407,500
Node profits "per day" if they don't sell any masternodes ... from before
company - 13,860 * 0.20 = $2772 max (6.16btc) and 13,860 * 0.05 = $693 min
customer - 2,640 * 0.20 = $528 max and 2640 * 0.05 = $132 min
therefore you can make in 9 months (270 days)
$2772 * 270 = $748,440 with no real competition then sell masternodes back OR you can make some more nodes sell some as cash.
to buy a masternode is 20,000 x $0.20 or $4000 ... days to break even on it are crazy if you are competing with the above and have 1.. your percent decreases each day as the highers earn more and more to create more masternodes.
Remember only 3 peoples names are on whitepaper.. does that mean the above is split between 3? Who knows there is no full list of the staff and what each does... we only know Richard Nelson = Support Director. Adam Matlack - white paper writer... no other declared role but has involvement.
Closing remarks
-------------------
Does everyone now see how important transparency is? Simple things like tracking addresses and keeping people honest and doing calcs for some due dilligence show you how potentially bad your investment could be. Don't take this as investment advice do the figures yourself and make your mind up but personally with comments like
- we can't trust third parties to hold coins they could run
- refusing to provide info and respond to questions
Can lead to the above scenario of pain. The only people with nothing to lose are those with free premines. Those who spend have to at least make what they buy for with price.
You might say BUT BUT BUT the coin will go up. Well thats great but remember
- preminers have more coins than you to exhaust so can reduce that price.
- pumps can happen by others but again they can sell.
There so data... take it to bits look at it contest it etc.
@MrCoins i assume you did the above and can explain why in your opinion and case it seemed to you to be worth risking with little to no info other than whitepaper.
Be aware this is public info on their site and this topic 1st post so anything others know that isn't available to all buyers i guess is inside information and maybe insider trading?
Comments thoughts etc? Sorry for the long ass post but had to put it all together... this gives people a point to look at AND DEMAND addresses premine burn etc are all public. Garza's stand was we aren't giving it to people just because they don't believe us... those that agreed were fooled once.. time to not be fooled again.
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@MrCoins i assume you did the above and can explain why in your opinion and case it seemed to you to be worth risking with little to no info other than whitepaper.
Be aware this is public info on their site and this topic 1st post so anything others know that isn't available to all buyers i guess is inside information and maybe insider trading?
I only have public information, I am not part of TeamION (or whatever the name of the group are referred). My attempts to help out with questions just get me called more names/accusations/scammer etc etc. So, anything you need to know, you'll have to ask TeamION or hang out in Slack and find out for yourself. Much of this has been discussed in Slack and so i've performed very similar calculations to yourself, as would anyone who was considering to invest. As previously stated, I am no longer sharing any of my findings. I can't get beyond the constant name calling so i'll leave each to do their own research and of course come to their own conclusions. Never invest in anything that doesn't feel safe or is outside of your comfort zone. Only invest what you can afford to lose - not a penny more. All crypto projects are EXTREMELY high risk. If in doubt, step back and wait a few months and review if need be, or just move on. It is very obvious you are a team member. You seem to have knowledge about everything going on with this coin. Accusing me of being a "team member" is one of the reasons why i've decided to keep all my research to myself. I've put all the time in (you wouldn't believe how many hours), i've been a pain in the ass probably to the ION team, why should I share it with people who just offend/accuse/name call. Do your own research, put the time in to find out, come to your own conclusions. As previously stated, I do my homework. If you'd spent as much time in Slack as I have then you'd know as much as me. Put the time in (on Slack) or ask the ION Team directly everything you need to know, like I did. Did you perform the same such calculations with GAW and xpy? Just curious. Because a lot of people were on the hashtalk forums and the google chats talking with them as well to get information... its only as good as the people giving it to you want it to be.... |
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@MrCoins i assume you did the above and can explain why in your opinion and case it seemed to you to be worth risking with little to no info other than whitepaper.
Be aware this is public info on their site and this topic 1st post so anything others know that isn't available to all buyers i guess is inside information and maybe insider trading?
I only have public information, I am not part of TeamION (or whatever the name of the group are referred). My attempts to help out with questions just get me called more names/accusations/scammer etc etc. So, anything you need to know, you'll have to ask TeamION or hang out in Slack and find out for yourself. Much of this has been discussed in Slack and so i've performed very similar calculations to yourself, as would anyone who was considering to invest. As previously stated, I am no longer sharing any of my findings. I can't get beyond the constant name calling so i'll leave each to do their own research and of course come to their own conclusions. Never invest in anything that doesn't feel safe or is outside of your comfort zone. Only invest what you can afford to lose - not a penny more. All crypto projects are EXTREMELY high risk. If in doubt, step back and wait a few months and review if need be, or just move on. Holy crap you did calculations similar to mine which show a shat load of risk and i really tried to think of pro bonuses for it but there was no information that is publicly available that allowed this. Its honestly got no risk to the ionomy team other than it crashes and burns and they do some other company.. there is no real financial loss for them with that premine... its insane... With the lack of information there is going to be a lot of people that lose money again. scam or not money is going to move from the customers buying not to come back their way without other people losing and the ion team is going to have it diverted to them. |
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Lets play stats since i like to number crunch a little to help me decide things.
Lets start with some knowns that were stated in announcement and whitepaper
BTC price @ $450
$1.00 in satoshi is 0.00222222
0.20c in satoshi is 0.00044444
0.10c in satoshi is 0.00022222
Ion
Blocks (1440 per day)
- 1 min blocks (60 blocks an hour)
- 1440 blocks per day (24 x 60)
Masternodes
- 50% of block reward
- 1st year is 11.5 per block
- a masternode costs 20,000 ion which is locked whilst in masternode.
Rewards per block
- year 1 --> 23 per block (really 11.5 as 11.5 goes to masternode owner)
- year 2 --> 17 per block (really 8.5 as 8.5 goes to masternode owner)
Premine (10.9 million all up)
- 3.4 million to incentives and give aways
- 2.5 million to bounties and coin development
- 5.0 million to ico customers
Prices
- ico price starting 20c going to 25c
- xpy swap equiv 8:1 around 8c
NOW for the unknown questions
--------------------
- since they are their escrow and haven't detailed how funds are released who is paid and paid what and how often. For all we know the could be their own devs paying themselves "until a decent one is found or whatever". They could pay themselves x to do the clone and change or pay a coin server to make it for a low price x and pay themselves a management fee or whatever.
- Funds haven't been deemed to be in a locked state not used for any other purpose in the meantime so we have to assume that they "can" be.
Ok lets get cracking.....
total premine - estimated deducted
10.9m - 1.25m (xpy swap) - 1.5m (potential sold due to $300,000 figure mentioned @ 20c)
= 8,150,000 ion coins sitting around
lets turn this all into masternodes (to secure the network of course)
8,150,000 / 20,000
= 407.5 masternodes... so lets round this down to 400 masternodes for a nice round calculation remember we are dealing with unknown potentials so lets keep it rough.
OK now lets see what the masternodes make per day. If 1 masternode secured all the transactions then
day value = 1440 blocks * 50% block reward
= 1440 * 11.5
= 16,560 ion generated.
Now the only competing masternodes ARE those that ico bought not xpy swapped (these are locked in 6,9,12 stakers and i'm sure they aren't removable as why would you let customers compete with your sales?).
So customer masternodes assuming 1 person purchased ALL ico (remember being rough so we can get max masternodes customers could have)
1,500,000 / 20,000
= 75
So all up we have 400 company nodes and 75 customer nodes..
company percent = 400 / 475 * 100 = 84.21% approx.. lets round this down to 84%
customer percent = 75 / 475 * 100 = 15.78% approx... lets round this up to 16% so we get a nice 100% combined.
so... 16,500 ion a day in masternodes
company = 16500 * 0.84 = 13,860 (or another masternode every 2 days to increase their percent)
customer = 16500 * 0.16 = 2640 (or a masternode every 8 days to increase their percent comapny is faster)
OK apologies for the length but we are getting there...
- Nobody sells for less than they buy unless its out of fear which is usually after time to transfer assets if unhappy or drops in price in panic
- stakers are all locked in so they have to wait
- most want to stake to return price and make profit
- only those that don't pay for their coins will sell at any price (company)
- company could masternode profit with the capital before use.
So in 9 months there is restricted market competition as long as someone with free coins sold less than those with paid.
Ignore the 8c xpy conversion ones as those are locked... therefore the minimum fear sell value is 20c (or less again if you have free)
Lets assume 20c a coin it stays at max and 5c at min.
If all masternode coins were sold at a point or over time you'd make (ignoring coins made from daily node rewards)
@ 20c --> 8,150,000 * 0.20 = $1,630,000
@ 5c --> 8,150,000 * 0.05 = $407,500
Node profits "per day" if they don't sell any masternodes ... from before
company - 13,860 * 0.20 = $2772 max (6.16btc) and 13,860 * 0.05 = $693 min
customer - 2,640 * 0.20 = $528 max and 2640 * 0.05 = $132 min
therefore you can make in 9 months (270 days)
$2772 * 270 = $748,440 with no real competition then sell masternodes back OR you can make some more nodes sell some as cash.
to buy a masternode is 20,000 x $0.20 or $4000 ... days to break even on it are crazy if you are competing with the above and have 1.. your percent decreases each day as the highers earn more and more to create more masternodes.
Remember only 3 peoples names are on whitepaper.. does that mean the above is split between 3? Who knows there is no full list of the staff and what each does... we only know Richard Nelson = Support Director. Adam Matlack - white paper writer... no other declared role but has involvement.
Closing remarks
-------------------
Does everyone now see how important transparency is? Simple things like tracking addresses and keeping people honest and doing calcs for some due dilligence show you how potentially bad your investment could be. Don't take this as investment advice do the figures yourself and make your mind up but personally with comments like
- we can't trust third parties to hold coins they could run
- refusing to provide info and respond to questions
Can lead to the above scenario of pain. The only people with nothing to lose are those with free premines. Those who spend have to at least make what they buy for with price.
You might say BUT BUT BUT the coin will go up. Well thats great but remember
- preminers have more coins than you to exhaust so can reduce that price.
- pumps can happen by others but again they can sell.
There so data... take it to bits look at it contest it etc.
@MrCoins i assume you did the above and can explain why in your opinion and case it seemed to you to be worth risking with little to no info other than whitepaper.
Be aware this is public info on their site and this topic 1st post so anything others know that isn't available to all buyers i guess is inside information and maybe insider trading?
Comments thoughts etc? Sorry for the long ass post but had to put it all together... this gives people a point to look at AND DEMAND addresses premine burn etc are all public. Garza's stand was we aren't giving it to people just because they don't believe us... those that agreed were fooled once.. time to not be fooled again.
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$4600.00 for a masternode?
You're literally charging us to help you...better change that strategy a bit before you get any btc from anyone with half a brain...
dont forget premine they can use for uncontested control of masternode percent. a free premine for free masternodes for more free block rewards. the ipo ion in stakers is frozen leaving them uncontested to sell. users buy at price say 15c and wont want to sell at loss. meanwhile their free masternode rewards can be sold lower making people think ooo cheap coins. they sell it all the way down till its unviable like xpy.... and btc (for bitpop). $300k in ico sales plus more in market sales. unknown team size lets say 5. at 600k thats 100k each for cloning a source sell some unreg securities. pretty easy money. then project 3 comes to save the ion people with useless ion. its like milking cows daily. |
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I have questions to the ION team: If I am interested in games that use cryptocurrencies, why wouldn't I just use a game that utilizes Bitcoin? For what reason should I buy a new altcoin that was cloned from another alt and has a premine of more than 50%? How is ION interesting to anyone else but the Paycoin bagholders who got some ION for free?
Microtransactions with Bitcoin are cost prohibitive with our game reward and platform incentive model. Small amounts of satoshi can't be moved cheaply. @ionomy 1) will you be proving the premine address for tracking purposes and transparency? 2) can you go on record tonstate you will not be using the premine to create mass masternodes to gain 50% rewards for blocks? with a large premine this means you can instantly monopolise the rewards in a high percent. please show the premine address. note if its not provided people will find it from the genesis block and movement. from here they'll see masternode creation and link it. its better to be upfront. what is premine address and are you making masternodes and how many? |
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