This is free education for you ... you are 7 years too late. You are going on bitcoins fame home a coin with a different name makes what bitcoin does.

Grow up... think more for yourself and start questioning what you do. If 100 people say its bad pass those questions onto those that say its good, see what they say to these questions then make your own decision. ATM you are defending those you invest with... is it not interesting they are not defending themselves? Why are you doing their work when they are the ingenious ones to make you money?

PS... you're  a moron.... so i'm being blunt but you are being dense. The truth hurts now but if you open your eyes you're a moron today but a thinker tomorrow.

So you are saying bitcoin created from nothing with a goal is compariable to ion which was a copy pasted coin with some adobe flash based game integration... wow you are deluded.

You're one fucked up individual. You are 9 months too late garza would of love you.

See you in 6 months when you have a new bitcointalk forum account promoting the next coin.... or tell me are you man/woman enough to admit later you were wrong and apologise im serious here and would love you word on this. Im happy to come back in 12 months and say im wrong if ion is 200% over its initial market float value.

Holy fuck.. even if a small chance. Seriously unless you are embarrassed how much in ion in usd did you invest? $1000, $500 and how much do you expect to make .... im actually seriously curious? Or are you embarrassed to say?

you're a moron ... seriously i can't be any nicer about this. If their shit games were addictive they wouldn't need crypto. You seem to think that adding crypto to some game will turn your $1000 into $100,000 as an investor. You realise some dickhead has to buy your sells to make you cash and then they are left holding.. would you consider that a success if you win and they lose?

If their games are any good they wouldn't need crypto.. their games aren't... they are fucked and useless else they'd be #1 on apple store like crossy road etc at times.

You are just a fool that spent money on ion hoping you can make money on others and saying the games are ace.

If you aren't full of shit list the amount you spent and all your public ion keys so we can follow your ions to see if you move to exchanges or not. If you can't do that just shut up because you are trying to mislead people, you have no faith in ion you're just realising your investment is crap and trying to make out it isn't.. if otherwise list addresses and prove me wrong... you do agree the blockchain doesn't lie right?

i have so you are insinuating that minecraft was a clone of lots of flash games from 5 years ago?

It was built from infiniminer and improved.. by notch... its not a clone of 1000000 of the same game before.

PS you have no clue what you are talking about. If you think you do please provide proof, or at least some evidence.

So you will answer questions or just respond with troll comments? I have a few serious questions or are you not keen on this unless they are praise statements? Im being serious here.

So edit your voice out of the mp3 file and submit it so we hear the GAW employees voice.. then submit the unmodified voice to authorities.

Unless you don't have this. If you edit and remove your voice or change it with software to hide your real voice show us. Else its just conjecture and rumour. I for one want to see this.

No seriously if you have GAW empooyees saying they knew they were telling lies that is important info. If you withhold that based on your own vanity on a forum then that is terrible. If you have valuable information and withhold it then you are doing the community a disservice.

Honestly... and im being nice here... it looks like a flash game from 5 years ago graphics wise.

If people think games of this caiber are going to launch ion into the next gen they are wrong.

Its amusing trying to help people but tiring.

If people just sat back and thought for a second.. hey if crypto was going to overtake steam, origin etc credits would it be ion or hyper or anything else? Steam or origin could clone the bitcoin core version and crush ion in a heart beat. Ion is taking advantage of people trying to make them believe some church minister and his friends who aren't entrepeneurs or rich or whatever have the intelligence these combined companies have.

Tomorrow steam or origin could make their coin put it in their news and ion is just well shit. The ion supporters here think that the community is somehow going to band together and make it the one mobile currency.

The true fact is its not. There is no homework... there is no due dilligence. Those that have ion might make something if they wrangle in some other poor schmucks to take their place. Im sure those that wrangle them in then will exit the scene saying i made neutral on my xpy loses adopt new online handles and move on.

The serious people here need to realise these people don't believe in ion and if they do they are sorely mistaken. I'd understand if there was a bigger company that made some kind of platform with triple a titles but there isn't. You have to remember you have an everyday guy like adam matlack that has loses with a pipe dream. He's selling you some big ass propaganda without a skillset to hav a triple a game he made to sell that ideal.

He wants you to make a game and take his invented money to make him money and popularity with the currency.

Adam matlack and his friends have nothing.. he's trying to establish himself as a big wig without being someone that actually brings a game or skillset to people. In short he's a parasite. And so is the team.

Me? i'd invest in a coin if a triple a company like valve and half life made it. What will adam start... gravity? some shitty adobe flash like looking graphics game. No thanks. You investors need to wake up and realise that the people like mr coins and madness here want to make it look good so their misguided investment makes them more money at your expense. Consider this a warning and a prediction of history repeating.

Xpy had a slogan - it all begins now

Here's a new slogan for ion - history repeats now.

Those that take this warning can thank us all later... those that don't take this warning i expect to never hear from again as they will be too ashamed to admit they were wrong.

So ion team would come comment if there was nothing but good stuff here? So in other words nobody should ever question anything that can make them look bad even if its true? That makes no sense.

Are you doxing him so you can send a dead animal in the mail? If so i hope the animal died of natural causes. Don't take the rage out on innocent animals.

Its about that time again...

@Madness maybe you can address the below

Lets play stats since i like to number crunch a little to help me decide things.

Lets start with some knowns that were stated in announcement and whitepaper

BTC price @ $450
$1.00 in satoshi is 0.00222222
0.20c in satoshi is 0.00044444
0.10c in satoshi is 0.00022222

Ion

Blocks (1440 per day)
- 1 min blocks (60 blocks an hour)
- 1440 blocks per day (24 x 60)

Masternodes
- 50% of block reward
- 1st year is 11.5 per block
- a masternode costs 20,000 ion which is locked whilst in masternode.

Rewards per block
- year 1 --> 23 per block (really 11.5 as 11.5 goes to masternode owner)
- year 2 --> 17 per block (really 8.5 as 8.5 goes to masternode owner)

Premine (10.9 million all up)
- 3.4 million to incentives and give aways
- 2.5 million to bounties and coin development
- 5.0 million to ico customers

Prices
- ico price starting 20c going to 25c
- xpy swap equiv 8:1 around 8c

NOW for the unknown questions
--------------------
- since they are their escrow and haven't detailed how funds are released who is paid and paid what and how often. For all we know the could be their own devs paying themselves "until a decent one is found or whatever". They could pay themselves x to do the clone and change or pay a coin server to make it for a low price x and pay themselves a management fee or whatever.

- Funds haven't been deemed to be in a locked state not used for any other purpose in the meantime so we have to assume that they "can" be.

Ok lets get cracking.....

total premine - estimated deducted
10.9m - 1.25m (xpy swap) - 1.5m (potential sold due to $300,000 figure mentioned @ 20c)
= 8,150,000 ion coins sitting around

lets turn this all into masternodes (to secure the network of course)
8,150,000 / 20,000
= 407.5 masternodes... so lets round this down to 400 masternodes for a nice round calculation remember we are dealing with unknown potentials so lets keep it rough.

OK now lets see what the masternodes make per day. If 1 masternode secured all the transactions then
day value = 1440 blocks * 50% block reward
= 1440 * 11.5
= 16,560 ion generated.

Now the only competing masternodes ARE those that ico bought not xpy swapped (these are locked in 6,9,12 stakers and i'm sure they aren't removable as why would you let customers compete with your sales?).

So customer masternodes assuming 1 person purchased ALL ico (remember being rough so we can get max masternodes customers could have)
1,500,000 / 20,000
= 75

So all up we have 400 company nodes and 75 customer nodes..
company percent = 400 / 475 * 100 = 84.21% approx.. lets round this down to 84%
customer percent = 75 / 475 * 100 = 15.78% approx... lets round this up to 16% so we get a nice 100% combined.

so... 16,500 ion a day in masternodes
company = 16500 * 0.84 = 13,860 (or another masternode every 2 days to increase their percent)
customer = 16500 * 0.16 = 2640 (or a masternode every 8 days to increase their percent comapny is faster)

OK apologies for the length but we are getting there...
- Nobody sells for less than they buy unless its out of fear which is usually after time to transfer assets if unhappy or drops in price in panic
- stakers are all locked in so they have to wait
- most want to stake to return price and make profit
- only those that don't pay for their coins will sell at any price (company)
- company could masternode profit with the capital before use.

So in 9 months there is restricted market competition as long as someone with free coins sold less than those with paid.
Ignore the 8c xpy conversion ones as those are locked... therefore the minimum fear sell value is 20c (or less again if you have free)

Lets assume 20c a coin it stays at max and 5c at min.
If all masternode coins were sold at a point or over time you'd make (ignoring coins made from daily node rewards)
@ 20c --> 8,150,000 * 0.20 = $1,630,000
@ 5c --> 8,150,000 * 0.05 = $407,500

Node profits "per day" if they don't sell any masternodes ... from before
company - 13,860 * 0.20 = $2772 max and 13,860 * 0.05 = $693 min
customer - 2,640 * 0.20 = $528 max and 2640 * 0.05 = $132 min

therefore you can make in 9 months (270 days)
$2772 * 270 = $748,440 with no real competition then sell masternodes back OR you can make some more nodes sell some as cash.

to buy a masternode is 20,000 x $0.20 or $4000 ... days to break even on it are crazy if you are competing with the above and have 1.. your percent decreases each day as the highers earn more and more to create more masternodes.

Closing remarks
-------------------
Does everyone now see how important transparency is? Simple things like tracking addresses and keeping people honest and doing calcs for some due dilligence show you how potentially bad your investment could be. Don't take this as investment advice do the figures yourself and make your mind up but personally with comments like
- we can't trust third parties to hold coins they could run
- refusing to provide info and respond to questions

Can lead to the above scenario of pain. The only people with nothing to lose are those with free premines. Those who spend have to at least make what they buy for with price.

You might say BUT BUT BUT the coin will go up. Well thats great but remember
- preminers have more coins than you to exhaust so can reduce that price.
- pumps can happen by others but again they can sell.

There so data... take it to bits look at it contest it etc.

@MrCoins i assume you did the above and can explain why in your opinion and case it seemed to you to be worth risking with little to no info other than whitepaper.
Be aware this is public info on their site and this topic 1st post so anything others know that isn't available to all buyers i guess is inside information and maybe insider trading?

Comments thoughts etc? Sorry for the long ass post but had to put it all together... this gives people a point to look at AND DEMAND addresses premine burn etc are all public. Garza's stand was we aren't giving it to people just because they don't believe us... those that agreed were fooled once.. time to not be fooled again.

no but plenty of little seeds i.e. new accounts created for the purpose to make noise in the grand conversation when the owner of the new account is too gutless to use their actual main account

MrCoins was no more harrassed then how he attacked people back.

Btw MrCoins was asked simple questions that he did not answer or danced around. If someone does that then they aren't completely trust worthy. When he wants to answer some questions properly he'll establish more credability. I posted some figures for ion that shows masternodes are a likely outcome for the company to make money which makes them dodgy and untrustworthy. MrCoins posted nothing back showing his homework and how he considers it trustworthy... he replied im not sharing my homework.

Speaking of which it might be time for me to repost that masternode stuff so its not buried and forgotten.. its a very important topic.

You have call records recorded with gaw and amanda? Publish the mp3 or audio file please. You do realise this could be something that helps the case against ganza particularly if amanda or others admit they lied to people in the call right?

Please release it.

why don't they just make a mysql database and give people crystals.. it has to be a cryptocurrency why?

they just don't get it.. the electons double their stake rate... so where does the double stake rate come from? Thats right the web stakers are drawing profits from masternodes and paying 1/4 of that to users normally... when they electrify they pay 1/2 earnings. The earnings they pay the users comes from premine masternode supply in excess. There is no code magic that says hey if i have electrons in the wallet then my stake rate on the block chain doubles..

Hints in games for ion... seriously...

The site is an aim to dilute the users holdings while outpacing their customer in coin generation. Its very very very much alike make more coins to pay investors to make more coins. It will collapse it isn't sustainable. Even if the devs didn't sell coins or make masternodes (which they will they can't help themselves just like garza couldn't.. that first ferarri rental does something to your brain like crack cocaine or something) its impossible to be a high market coin. Look at all the other POS coins... none are raking in what people think. The sell pressure from devs and buy pressure will even out at the start to make the milk last longer... once people load up and buy then the dev sells will drop the buy side people will panic on losses selll more then shit hits the fan and before you know it like xpy down to sub 3000 satoshi.

There are not ways to go around it. As per all platforms using steam as an example they prevent this occuring. Notice how crisis 3 isn't on steam? Thats because they wanted to sell the base game on steam and have ingame sales of expansions etc outside the steam economy. This invalidated the agreement on steam so they didn't list crysis 3.

If your game sells say crystals for points ingame to use its fine so long as you buy those crystals with apple instore purchases. These are set rate packs. So you could technically buy ion to use ingame with apple credits but 30% of all sales go to apple. So therefore ionomy has to inflate the cost over to make even. Unless they are mass staking free coins from masternodes to sell you?

Apple and android are QUITE strict on crypto in games and how its actually used and awarded. You cannot build an ingame shop that lets people sell their ion inside the game this is a store inside a store and not allowed.

There is no getting around it which you shouldn't consider with ion anyway. Doing so with getting around terms indicates dishonesty and intention to abuse a inplace system... remember how garza tried ot do that with amazon services when it was against TOS? Are you indicating that there are ways to get around it i.e trying to sneak around apple store rules?

Check out sarutobi (i think is its spelling). This game awards bitcoin over time though its small. It initially had problems getting onto the app store and had to pass a lot of things. All it is is a mini faucet.

So again i think you are missing the point. Unless you believe apple, google and microsoft are less smart with their lawyer contacts and team and team ion are geniuses (in which case i think you are deluded) then i don't think i've missed anything.

Platforms like steam, app store, play store and microsoft market don't make a platform for other people to make money with their audience without taking a big cut. You are playing on their field with their rules... after all they own it.

ios and andoud games giving crypto isnt a problem. using it as ingame currency is. app stores have their own currency for this. how are they getting around this? you can give ion away in your games but cant sell ion to use in your game.... i think you missed this part

Bigvern didn't run off with peoples money for 1 year either. He did it like 2-3 years into it.

The end fact is this people here have repeatedly asked for how someone invested chose to invest with facts or their due dilligence. People like yourself say you have facts or reasons... when asked to provide you just say i trust them or others say im not doing other peoples homework i know my stuff.

Its ignorant statements.

Team ion just don't want to provide any answers because quite frankly it exposes what they are up to and every question answered now puts them in trouble later when its proven wrong on teh blockchain... just like josh's lies. They are doing the route of not answering anything to not incriminate themselves because they don't believe in what they are doing.

You and others will have your investments diluted... 1 or 2 will make a little money and team ion will make money. Then as it goes down they'll make some grand statements about being about community and doing this or that to raise it you'll all shout we love you team ion without realising they are making money while you aren't.

History will repeat and you'll all be back for someone else in your communities attempt to save the ion disadvantaged with a new coin and we'll do this all again in a new topic.


If this is wrong encourage your team ion to answer all questions because quite frankly that gives strength to your position right? Or are you comfortable with them not answering questions?

Thats an easy question and quite an obvious one. If you invested then you aren't going to scrutinise it because you invested thus accept it as a good investment.

If you looked at it decided it wasn't a good investment you are going to scrutinise it because well... its not a good investment to you.

That statement you made is just plain silly its obvious.

Tell me this... would you invest $20,000 then come and say how it doesn't make sense and questions aren't answered? You'd basically be throwing your money at something you think isn't good.

Let me counter your question with another one and you should answer this.


WHY is it that only investors are promoting it?

and to your second statement on if this was a scam surely people who invested would be complaining?

Paycoin investors didn't complain at the start.. are you telling me it wasn't a scam? See history possibly repeating?