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581  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gamblers should not believe in first game win trap on: December 16, 2023, 05:15:30 PM
I don't think the first win is always going to be a trap or I wouldn't really consider that it's a trap to get you further involved, it's gambling and anyone can win and lose, so the casino doesn't mean that the first win is to trap you further.

All of this depends on the gambler's point of view, if indeed they address gambling as more of a pleasure activity (earning) then I think it is very possible that you are easily tempted by your first win and think excessively like thinking that "this is a good place to earn, I think it all comes back to one's point of view and understanding in terms of gambling especially about probability, if from the start they understand everything then I think they will remain fine, or that means they will not be easily tempted by something that looks like tempting.

I think the that's exactly what the OP wanted to say but with different words. In the end, what he meant is that "gamblers should  not believe in first game win trap" because they might be tempted by the pleasurable sensation of the first win. Of course, it would be harder for a more stoic gambler to fall into this trap, so we should take the fact that we are all different for granted.
582  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: La Liga (Spanish League) Prediction Thread 2023/24 on: December 16, 2023, 05:11:26 PM
Is incredible how this Atletico Madrid is wasting the chance to be on top of the league, always when they have a little chance waste it agains X team, on this day against Bilbao who is a very hard team to beat on San Mames, but anyways they need to overcome this issue if they want to become champions.

You said it right, Athletic is known to be a team very hard to beat in their home field. About Atlético, there are still a lot of matches to be played, we have Liga for a long time, you know; if you are a fan, try to enjoy the journey.
583  Other / Off-topic / Re: Do you regret also for ever knowing about gambling? on: December 15, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
There is nothing to regret about after knowing how to gamble, personally I am a football fan so when online betting sites started popping out I got involved in soccer bettingy in a bid to earn extra fund, this was based on my ability to analyze soccer matches and my ability to make some predictions, however I gambled responsibly with the amount of money I can afford to lose in any case of a Loss or losses I am not bothered because I also have my winning days too, unfortunately there are a lot of addicted gamblers who wanted to get rich quickly however got bankrupted while some of them committed suicide which is very unfortunate I believe those gamblers would regret knowing how to gamble.

The nature of sports betting is something that makes me wonder to what extent skill is a key factor in the result. Could you tell us how are you doing? are your numbers in overall positive or negative?

Back on topic, blaming on others because of own faults is more usual than it should, but I don't think it is the standard behavior: OP said that, out of a number of friends, only one behaved like that. Of course, today he gambles more than he would want, probably because some sort of predisposition out of his control, but that's not his friend's fault because he didn't force the former to go with him to that casino that day.
584  Other / Meta / Re: Mixers to be banned on: December 15, 2023, 02:54:41 PM
I doubt the member you know that earned $1200 per month was a sole case by being on a customised deal. If I recall correctly, for a short period at one stage all the Chipmixer participants were getting paid more than $1200 per month because the price of Bitcoin was high enough to take them over $300 per week.

I know someone who earned $1200 per month from ChipMixer.

We are going meta at this point, but it's a little incorrect - It was max 0.0375BTC per week until some time in 2021, and then up to $300 per week after that.

So in any case, it was quite a number of people, not just one.

If I'm not wrong, those 0.0375BTC meant over 3k USD a month at the time CM decided to fix it to the dollar. mv1986 is right, so apply it to 3k: it is a high salary in most countries, very high in mine, and unconceivable in regimes like Cuban. The perfect complement for many, and perhaps a lifesaver for some. The best posters were there, so it's not so surprising.



There’s already some campaign like from @icopress that doesn’t have minimum post requirements to get payment. Campaigns is now adjusting to employ quality poster like you in the forum by removing the hassle of meeting post quota.

Livecasino signature campaign, managed by the Cro2 team, doesn't have a minimum quota either. They are very critical with the quality, instead, which is perfect to avoid spam.
585  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Trading is hard!!! on: December 15, 2023, 06:18:24 AM
Yes, crypto trading is very hard but if you follow the rules and regulations that governed the trading and you endure in your trading through out, you will definitely get it right by making income from your crypto trading in the market. The reason why you see some crypto traders finding it difficult to understand crypto trading is because they don't want to exercise patience whenever the bearish season is on ground than to trade at the moment to experience loses that will make them fail. If you can take your time to carry out your personal research to know some key points of potential crypto traders are using in making income, I think crypto trading will be easy for you to achieve what you want in the market.

Unpopular opinion here: I don't think crypto trading is so hard; it is more about how lucky you are. Let me explain:

If you are unlucky and you enter the market during a FOMO, no matter how expert you are in TA: you'll lose money when the bear market comes and everything starts going down sharply. On the contrary, those who enter in the beginning of a bull market must do it really bad not to get some profits when everything is on the rise.

There is a risk implied and it is that the ones who enter in the right timing and get high benefits can fall into the delusion of thinking that it was because of their analytical skills, when any monkey with a crossbow would've done that well or even better.

Sorry, I'm skeptic about TA, I think it is evident.
586  Local / Esquina Libre / Re: Acabo de cancelar mi ChatGPT plus. Emosido engañado on: December 15, 2023, 06:10:50 AM
No he tenido cuenta de pago hasta ahora, pero me lo estaba planteando. No para nada que me sirva en el trabajo en principio, sino para trastear y entender mejor el potencial de la tecnología (no quedarme en la teoría sino empezar a controlar también la práctica).

Y sin embargo entro hoy aquí, y me encuentro que tienes experiencia en el tema y que ya no te merece la pena mantener la suscripción.

No sé, le daré una vuelta a ver. Quizá haya alguna alternativa que le pueda "comer la tostada" al ChatGPT y me decante por probarla. Como sea, escribiré aquí sobre mi experiencia: pensaba abrir un hilo sobre el tema, pero ¿para qué duplicar?

Tengo curiosidad por saber de la experiencia de otr@s compañer@s, por cierto.

Aclaro que ahora mismo no estoy haciendo actividades que me requieran el uso, lo mantenía un poco por apoyar un proyecto que me parecía positivo, pero viendo todo el circo que pasó con la salida y regreso de Altman, las regulaciones y la falta de escalabilidad... encuentro que no han sido honestos ni Open.

Yo aprovecharé para probar otras como Lamma en local, etc. pero no descarto volver si lo necesito. Para programación es la bomba. Aunque de apoyo a traducción y redacción lo veo interesante, ya has comentado más veces que no te llama y lo respeto, pero creo que deberías probar, usarlo y entenderlo un poco a ver si algo te puede aportar.

Sí que, lo probaré. Es muy probable que de manera inminente tengamos que utilizar esta tecnología en nuestro día a día laboral, hay que mentalizarse.

Por cierto que sobre este tema escuché un podcast el otro día, una entrevista a Mariano Sigman, interesantísima, y me he comprado su último libro "Artificial: La nueva inteligencia y el contorno de lo humano". Me parece un buen primer paso para comprender no sólo el funcionamiento sino otras implicaciones también. Si alguien se anima a leerlo, lo podemos comentar aquí (o en otro hilo, si Drawesome lo prefiere), puede ser enriquecedor para todos. O también le podemos pedir a ChatGPT que lo lea por nosotros y nos lo comente "él" mismo. Pero mejor no: uno de los retos que va a suponer esta nueva tecnología va a ser cómo evitar la atrofia que supone delegar determinadas tareas por no tener que hacerlas uno mismo, comentan los entendidos.
587  Economy / Services / Re: [OFNT] [AOBT] The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators on: December 15, 2023, 05:53:21 AM
<...>

Hey Learn Bitcoin, I have some good news for you: several members already voted and they all agreed to invite you, so I will update the OP during the weekend and you'll be officially a new member of the Alliance. Congratulations!!!



-snip-

In the meantime, if Learn Bitcoin is accepted as the main translator for our board, I would love to be a backup translator (of course, if Learn Bitcoin needs a helping hand, with his permission).



-snip-

Thank you also for your interest DYING_S0UL. Please, coordinate with Learn Bitcoin and let us know his decision. If he agrees and other members don't disagree for any reason, I'll add your name to the "hall of fame" too Wink
588  Economy / Economics / Re: Idea and money are very important to investment. on: December 14, 2023, 02:44:21 PM
-snip-
I would recommend the OP to put it into action and build a portfolio even when he hasn't got a clear idea of how this market works. Of course, with all the safety precautions like using a hard wallet if we are not talking about a few bucks or checking twice every single letter and number every time you send transactions, and only if he has some spare money he can afford to lose, but no more.
It's like building everything without having any foundation about the market and about how crypto works.
But at least you have to have some basic knowledge to start a crypto portfolio, without basic knowledge he will not be able to become a holder or as a crypto investor, he will panic too much when his money decreases in value when the price fluctuations of Bitcoin or altcoins are very drastic.

Like understanding how to secure crypto assets in a mobile wallet or with a hardware wallet, or by checking the address before shipping,
don't you have to have basic knowledge first?  

Most coins, even many shitcoins, are pumping hard because of the positive sentiment, so chances are that the OP is lucky and makes some money even if he has no idea of what he's doing.
Shitcoin is pumped hard because of the positive sentiment that only happens for a moment,
after that, all that sentiment will change and shitcoin will only become rubbish.
It's just a stroke of luck and won't come a second time.

You deleted important information that is crucial to understand the reasons behind this specific opinion of mine in this specific moment.

Of course, I agree in general with what you said, and that's the message I always share with newbies. But in this very moment, as I see it, and with the focus in the short term, it wouldn't be absurd to jump into it without the ideal knowledge he should have.

Because, otherwise, if a newbie waits until he gained the needed knowledge he will have to wait until the next cycle (4 years?), if ever, to try his luck. I'm talking from my own experience: I jumped into the market being a total newbie in mid-2017 and the outcome was positive, so I'd have regretted it if I had waited.

Of course, always with the money you can afford to lose, and without letting greed make you lose the gains when the bear market comes.
589  Local / Esquina Libre / Re: Acabo de cancelar mi ChatGPT plus. Emosido engañado on: December 14, 2023, 06:16:45 AM
La verdad es que llego un poco tarde a este mundo: he seguido con cierto limitado interés la evolución de la tecnología, pero no ha sido hasta el hype de ahora que me estoy empezando a meter en harina.

No he tenido cuenta de pago hasta ahora, pero me lo estaba planteando. No para nada que me sirva en el trabajo en principio, sino para trastear y entender mejor el potencial de la tecnología (no quedarme en la teoría sino empezar a controlar también la práctica).

Y sin embargo entro hoy aquí, y me encuentro que tienes experiencia en el tema y que ya no te merece la pena mantener la suscripción.

No sé, le daré una vuelta a ver. Quizá haya alguna alternativa que le pueda "comer la tostada" al ChatGPT y me decante por probarla. Como sea, escribiré aquí sobre mi experiencia: pensaba abrir un hilo sobre el tema, pero ¿para qué duplicar?

Tengo curiosidad por saber de la experiencia de otr@s compañer@s, por cierto.
590  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: What if ATH - ATH Portfolio Calculator on: December 14, 2023, 06:07:05 AM
Basically, your site takes the value and multiplies it by ATH, meaning that any value will be multiplied by a fixed value, adding the second value, and so on?

Your algorithm is as follows:

Code:
Result= (Inpout1 * $69,045) + (Inpout2 * ETH ATH) + (Inpout3 * XRP ATH)....

This can be done using Excel, so you will need to add more things to the site.

It is, indeed, a very simple site. But you overestimate potential users if you think that most of them will create an excel in order to calculate that outcome.

I agree that it would be advisable to add more features to the website, but this is how lean projects work: you don't wait until you built a high-end car in order to sell it, you start with a scooter which still works, instead.

So, from that perspective, there is nothing wrong with the project/experiment. In fact, I think that this is a recurrent question between newbies, that a couple of friends of mine asked me in the past: how much would x be worth if it hit an ATH? they didn't even know coinmarketcap lol. So yes, your service makes sense, another thing is how you increase awareness on it so you generate traffic and monetise it (if that's your aim).
591  Economy / Services / Re: Guitar Lessons for your Team, or Family! on: December 14, 2023, 05:53:38 AM
<...>


Hey! Forgive me for the extremely long wait LOL ... Life, you know?

I'm actually doing the best I've ever done with teaching on my own, by myself. I've got about 14 students a week. Which isn't much but It's better than I've done.
I can absolutely help make it achievable - I've taken students who were dead beginners and helped them learn to the point that they're writing and producing their own music, even shredding guitar! I appreciate your words!!

Welcome back, king6string, and congratulations! 14 students is a really good achievement, worthy of admiration (the close friend I told you about would be jealous Cheesy). I'm glad to hear that you're doing so well.

As we are in a Bitcoin forum, the question is mandatory: are you getting paid in BTC by any of your students? I think that I know the answer because the market isn't mature enough and p2p payments are far from mainstream, but you might surprise me.

I hope you keep doing this well, and let's see if any forum member is interested in your services now that your thread was bumped.

592  Economy / Economics / Re: Idea and money are very important to investment. on: December 13, 2023, 06:58:32 PM
Here's my own advice concerning idea and money, in cryptocurrency, if you're having money, then try to keep it aside first and seek after having the idea on what to use the money for, this starts by what you're learning, aspect that you're interested in, your understanding of how to go about it and how determined you're in taking the risk involved, if you're Investing and have an idea about it, you will have a direction towards a desirable destination.

Although I'm usually more conservative with my comments on how to assess the risks when it comes to investing money, especially if we talk about cryptos, since I feel optimistic because of the next halving, I would recommend the OP to put it into action and build a portfolio even when he hasn't got a clear idea of how this market works. Of course, with all the safety precautions like using a hard wallet if we are not talking about a few bucks or checking twice every single letter and number every time you send transactions, and only if he has some spare money he can afford to lose, but no more.

Most coins, even many shitcoins, are pumping hard because of the positive sentiment, so chances are that the OP is lucky and makes some money even if he has no idea of what he's doing.
593  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: how can the community support newcomers in navigating the crypto space? on: December 13, 2023, 06:46:40 PM
The only thing I can think of right now is you locking this thread, as I don't see any usefulness of it. First off, the forum and it's members have always welcomed new members and helped in many ways in which they might understand how the forum and how Bitcoin works. And from your post history, you would be able to tell that you were guided on your first post here on the forum.

The OP doesn't add anything useful, that's true, because all the ideas he mentioned are put in action at least since I joined back in 2017, and I'm very sure that before too. Maybe the OP meant something different with the one about the mentors? there are plenty of threads that recommend authors of books and other sources of information everyone can learn from though.

But I'm not a friend of locking threads lightly, as some of them may lead to new ideas from other members that perhaps no one would have thought of until now. For instance, in this case, it could lead to a discussion about a Bitcointalk mentorship programme. I don't see it as very viable, but it is just an example.
594  Local / Español (Spanish) / Re: ¿Qué piensa sobre la trayectoria futura del precio de Bitcoin? on: December 13, 2023, 06:33:43 PM

-snip-

Todas las técnicas de análisis que te cuenten no sirven más que para vender cursos o crear falsos profetas.

Soy de la misma opinión que mi compañero Drawesome en lo que a TA respecta. Entiendo cómo una pseudociencia se vende como ciencia, y por qué la gente lo compra, pero seamos realistas y démonos cuenta de que ninguna técnica puede predecir lo que va a pasar mañana en los mercados, basándose meramente en lo que hizo ayer o haga hoy. O no, cada uno debería ser libre Smiley.


Yo técnica tampoco utilizo aparte de mi experiencia siguiendo los mercados durante años. El del bitcoin y la bolsa también. Lo que pienso es que es bastante probable que en el próximo ciclo el precio traspase los 100.000$, y que el máximo se quede a medio camino entre esa cifra y los 200.000$. Aunque no descartaría un escenario más a la baja que ese, visto lo que ha pasado este ciclo. Escenarios más al alza prácticamente los descarto. Hace falta mucha pasta para mover el precio y la capitalización de mercado en estos niveles, no es como cuando el bitcoin valía céntimos.

Yo también espero que la subida ronde las seis cifras, aunque cada vez tengo sentimientos más enfrentados. Por un lado, el último ciclo está siendo flojito, en parte por lo que comentas de la alta capitalización. Por otro lado, en cambio, recuerdo cómo en el último ciclo veníamos de un precio de 4.000€ que fue el mínimo en marzo de 2020 a causa de la pandemia (cerca de un añito antes del ATH), y eso no fue impedimento para que el precio se multiplicara por más de 15.

Como decía más arriba, no deberíamos confiar en lo que ha pasado hasta ahora para creer a pies juntillas lo que se avecina, pero cuando se trata de mera especulación sí que creo en el valor de hacer vaticinios, por el simple placer de hacerlo.
595  Economy / Services / Re: [OFNT] [AOBT] The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators on: December 13, 2023, 06:20:32 AM
Thank you zasad@, link added. Let's keep increasing the awareness on this important event for the forum.


unfortunately i have to get something off my chest here and it concerns the translations of the TalkImg thread by joker_josue
the guy does a great job for the whole community with his service and we have also formed a great aobt community here with our alliance, but if i just look at the arabic (@Kavelj22), philippine (@Peanutswar), russian (@zasad@) and turkish (@mindrust) translations as an example, then in my opinion it is not enough to just translate the thread once, collect the merits and after me the flood of meaning, but you have to continue to maintain this own translation with the upcoming updates and also include it in the translation - in these translations, nothing was updated in the op after publication...

i just want to throw this into the room as a point of criticism and have nothing against the people mentioned here and their further translations. i just happened to notice this now, after i updated my thread with the latest updates
just my 2 satoshis Smiley

That problem was exposed some time ago in this thread, and you are totally right. I understand that we can't force other members to keep a high vigilance on several topics, especially when they are translating them for free, but in the case you mentioned and a few more (like the Bitcointalk Awards for example) there is some kind of moral obligation to not let them die. Especially in the case of TalkImg, because as you said joker_josue is doing some extra work to keep us informed about the changes in his topic so we don't have to constantly be monitoring it.

As I said, this problem is hard to solve because we do it pro bono, unlike paid campaigns where there is extra motivation. It doesn't only happen inside our gang: I found that some topics that were proposed here had been translated into Spanish in my local board, but abandoned, with the problem of having to decide to leave it that way or duplicate topics, which is forbidden.

Anyway, although the problem won't go away overnight, it is important to remember it from time to time. I'm sure that, in most cases, translated topics aren't updated not because of bad faith, but because of unawareness of the latest updates. I stopped sending DMs often inside out group because I felt that they could be overwhelming for some AoBTers, but I'll definitely start sending them back not only when there is a decision to be made, but when there are changes in our topics too (it seems that not everyone uses the Telegram bot here, and mentions in this thread go unnoticed in several cases).
596  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Lotteries and possibility vs. probability on: December 13, 2023, 05:54:06 AM
I can relate to that story, since my father used to buy a lottery ticket in the way back home from school. He liked to explain me which were his favorite numbers, and how much was the price in things that I could understand, and dreaming about the dear life we would live if we were lucky.

In the present I play from time to time but I think that I'm not following the ritual as I don't have the need to do it every week, and I don't enjoy it as much as him. So seeing the parents play have an effect in the children, but that effect will be different according to different variables also.
You are lucky to have a father who is open and willing to explain his favorite numbers. And you are also invited to dream of getting a beautiful life if you are lucky. It was an unforgettable experience because we could be close to our father. I taught myself about gambling because none of my family members gambled, even though there were family members who drank alcohol but they didn't gamble.

Yes, after we grow up, we will definitely find out for ourselves what we want. But we already have a foundation of what our parents explained, so we know what to look for next. The influence of the parents will be carried over to the child, whether it is a little or a lot, but something will definitely be carried over to the children.

Thank you ethereumhunter, I feel lucky in that regard. As you said, sometimes we have to teach ourselves about new things, that's what happened to all of us in this forum with Bitcoin because our parents didn't know it when they were young. So there is a lesson to be learned there, as present or future parents, about lessons that must be taught to our children in order to reach a proper balance: on one hand, enjoy life and, on the other, still be able to avoid risky behaviors.

They'll definitely have to learn it themselves during their lifetime, but it's our responsibility to help them.



597  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Lotteries and possibility vs. probability on: December 12, 2023, 03:28:02 PM
It is quite possible that when young children see their parents checking out the lottery and hoping that they should go this time and win, this delightful mood of expectation of something good is automatically transferred to the children.  -snip-
The experience in childhood of seeing their parents check the lottery will make them try to buy the lottery when they are older and they will continue to try when they have not managed to win any prizes. It may be a trivial thing but it can provide experience about gambling to young children who follow what their parents do in buying the lottery. -snip-

I can relate to that story, since my father used to buy a lottery ticket in the way back home from school. He liked to explain me which were his favorite numbers, and how much was the price in things that I could understand, and dreaming about the dear life we would live if we were lucky.

-snip-
Your own experience in this matter is interesting.  You say that you also buy lottery tickets, but you don’t do it as often as your father used to do. 
It seems to me that when a father picks up a child from school, buying a lottery ticket is like such a nice little gift for both the adult and the child too.  This is, in a sense, a positive ritual.  Because two people will hope to win at once.  And even if the lottery ticket is without a win, all this is forgotten quite quickly, and when you buy a new lottery ticket, the hope of winning appears again.  The result is such a small emotional swing that it generally diversifies the often boring and monotonous lives of many people.  Especially in those countries where people work a lot and generally live poorly.

I think that it has a lot to do with each one's personality traits.

In my personal case, I consider myself quite a critical thinker, but still flexible. I enjoy playing lotteries from time to time, but I'm aware that I wouldn't enjoy playing more often; on the contrary, it could end up being frustrating after decades of putting too many expectations on a dream life that never arrives.

Someone else could remember his father's hobby as naive and never play lotteries (especially if his relationship with his father wasn't good, I guess). And finally there must be cases also of people who blindly repeat what they see when they were children, go further and end up being addicted to different ways of gambling.

Just in case, I decided that I wouldn't carry my underage son or daughter to bars as long as I could (it is hard to do it in a country with a culture of "fiesta" like mine), and of course casinos, but I don't think the same happens with lotteries.

In fact, I've read today that in my country the Government is about to ban influencers from advertising gambling, but that rule won't be applied to lotteries.
598  Economy / Services / Re: [OFNT] [AOBT] The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators on: December 12, 2023, 02:48:38 PM
We are now OFNT (Open For New Translators)

-snip-

-snip-
I am applying for Nigeria local board

Sorry Hewlet but I'm afraid that it won't be possible. It seems that you didn't read the previous posts in this page but if you do it you'll see that we have recently covered that board too. You can still ask our main translator Hatchy just in case, but he has already stated that he is able to manage all translations, and that he will ask Chilwell for help if he needs it. So don't be too optimistic.

It id my fault too because I must update the post you quoted. I'm replying on the go but I'll do it very soon.
599  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Unstable prices of cryptocurrency on: December 12, 2023, 06:11:15 AM
I see so many errors in what the OP says that I don't even know where to begin.

If you are going to invest in something, what you have to do is study it and make a reasoned decision as to why you are investing, not just buy because you think the price is going to go up. The latter is gambling, not unlike betting at the casino.

There are more volatile investments, such as Bitcoin, and the way to appease volatility is to think about the long term.

You have a lot to learn, OP.

He is still learning, so his mistakes are reasonable somehow.

OP, when you buy after a sharp increase in thinking that it will continue growing it is called FOMO and it is a very well known phenomenon in trading in general and in crypto in particular. Did you want to make quick gains and liquidate fast? then you were gambling rather than investing.

About your second question, the only way you can freeze the value of your BTC is selling them. You can do it for fiat or you can buy stablecoins which are pegged to USD: it is not completely safe as liquidity of stablecoins is not guaranteed, but it can be interesting if you din't want to abandon the crypto circuit.

Of course, chances are that after "freezing" the value, the price pumps and you miss the train. But again, that's because you're gambling, not investing (hodling). If you only invest what you can afford to lose, you should never be worried about short term fluctuations.
600  Economy / Economics / Re: Is there a correlation between liquidity and volatility? on: December 12, 2023, 05:58:08 AM
If we are talking about crypto markets, you correctly said that, the lower the liquidity, the easier to impact in prices by buying or selling smaller quantities. You only have to watch those small caps that value less than a cent and in a few days go like x100 (and viceversa). The problem is that when you try to liquidate you may be dumping the price against your own interest: you sell for a good price the first units but very cheap the last ones.

Take for example MODEX: ask was at less than 1 cent in Bittrex (btw, the exchange recently announced that they are closing, so hurry up and withdraw!!) like two months ago, but yesterday $0.23. Easy maths, it went more than 23x in two months. And in 2021 did the same, and then dumped that hard, too. This proce action is inconceivable for high caps.

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