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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 878949 times)
Indictus
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October 14, 2018, 05:53:37 PM
 #8201


As I noted above saying humanity was created in the image of God may have a more nuanced meaning then is commonly appreciated.
Nevertheless I do accept the existence of the creator as a starting point. Here is why this is the most reasonable place to start.

An Argument for God



You did not just put your own message from another thread as a reliable source did you?....I think you just tried to do that.....It's like asking why is this pen blue, and you give me a piece of paper written on it "This pen is blue because I said so". Your source of information and the building argument for it is flawed on so many levels that I am not even sure where to start... you are way into deep to be pulled out .....I wish you well  Smiley
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October 14, 2018, 06:13:20 PM
Last edit: October 15, 2018, 05:30:55 AM by CoinCube
 #8202

You did not just put your own message from another thread as a reliable source did you?....I think you just tried to do that.....It's like asking why is this pen blue, and you give me a piece of paper written on it "This pen is blue because I said so". Your source of information and the building argument for it is flawed on so many levels that I am not even sure where to start... you are way into deep to be pulled out .....I wish you well  Smiley

Sigh I grow so weary of rabid atheist who cannot seem to string a coherent thought together.

Some atheist I respect. I disagree with af_newbie utterly and on just about everything that matters but I respect his intellect and the logic of his thoughts. You not so much.

Let me simplify this for you.

You stated:

it's (Gods) existence is accepted by you as a starting point.

And I replied that you are correct I do accept Gods existence as a starting point.

I do accept the existence of the creator as a starting point.

Then I linked to my prior arguments on why this assumption is reasonable.

An Argument for God

I hope this exercise in basic reading comprehension has proven useful for you.

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October 14, 2018, 10:04:45 PM
 #8203

I would NOT agree that the ten commandments are good... since you brought it up, lets talk about them:

It was just an example showing that most atheist are willing to act "good" and "moral" without any religious rules telling them to do so.

Exactly!... now you get it!

People do not need religion to be good or moral... it is 100% unnecessary

Most religious people have never even read their holy book(s)... most christians can't even name 5 of the 10 commandments...

Their religion did not make them good people... they were good people before they were duped into believing religious nonsense

People are good... religions are bad...

"Without religion, good people do good things, and bad people do bad things... but it takes something like religion to make good people do bad things"
(example: flying planes into the towers on 9/11 would not have happened without religion)

I agree with you, but in some regions religion is needed, e.g. in Africa, there are tribes killing each other, if you Christianise them they'll form a new Christian tribe and they'll kill less. I think it would be difficult to get into their head without using religion.
I don't really get why these tribes fight, it may be because of their different religions  Grin

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November 01, 2018, 01:36:58 PM
 #8204


As compared to what?  Your dream?  Life originated in liquid water.

You are just trolling me.  You cannot be that stupid.

If you want to discuss the origin of life and how a man was created you have to use evidence other than what the Bible says.

Bible requires faith.  Faith is not a reliable way to discover the truth.


LOL! You don't even realize how stupid that is, do you?... that anybody would think he can figure out what happened hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the past. Let me show you how stupid it is.

Today, right now, we have hundreds of thousands or millions of smart mathematicians trying to figure out where the Forex, the stock market, the derivatives market, the nations, elections, and thousands of other things are going in life. What do they use to do their calculations? Statistics from literally yesterday, on back through the well-documented history of the last hundred years.

What are the results of all their calculations from the well-documented statistics history? Good guesses. Why guesses? Because they all flub it good, on a regular basis. They all get it wrong here and there.

And you think that some self-styled scientists can take a look at some vague history that they think relates to hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago, and determine how life originated back then? You think that they are way smarter than the mathematicians who are using accurate statistics from the last hundred years - statistics that are right close to today - but still caqn't figure out what is going on today? LOL! You can't even understand how stupid that sounds, can you?

If you had any brains at all, you would be scientifically checking into why the Bible is a solid, eye witness record, of things that happened in the past, and how it is the Word of God given to people by God, so some of them can be saved.

Cool
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November 01, 2018, 01:48:19 PM
 #8205

As compared to what?  Your dream?  Life originated in liquid water.

You are just trolling me.  You cannot be that stupid.

If you want to discuss the origin of life and how a man was created you have to use evidence other than what the Bible says.

Bible requires faith.  Faith is not a reliable way to discover the truth.

LOL! You don't even realize how stupid that is, do you?... that anybody would think he can figure out what happened hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the past. Let me show you how stupid it is.

People would probably like you more and read your posts if you didn't start every post with a personal insult

Today, right now, we have hundreds of thousands or millions of smart mathematicians trying to figure out where the Forex, the stock market, the derivatives market, the nations, elections, and thousands of other things are going in life.

You can't compare studying the history of the universe to predicting the future of the stock market, etc... that's not a proper analogy, and nobody is going to be stupid enough to believe that makes sense

If you had any brains at all, you would be scientifically checking into why the Bible is a solid, eye witness record, of things that happened in the past

Please stop beginning and ending your posts with insults... try to use facts and evidence to convince people you are right... insulting someone only proves you are angry and wrong
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November 01, 2018, 01:57:28 PM
 #8206

As compared to what?  Your dream?  Life originated in liquid water.

You are just trolling me.  You cannot be that stupid.

If you want to discuss the origin of life and how a man was created you have to use evidence other than what the Bible says.

Bible requires faith.  Faith is not a reliable way to discover the truth.

LOL! You don't even realize how stupid that is, do you?... that anybody would think he can figure out what happened hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the past. Let me show you how stupid it is.

People would probably like you more and read your posts if you didn't start by insulting people

Today, right now, we have hundreds of thousands or millions of smart mathematicians trying to figure out where the Forex, the stock market, the derivatives market, the nations, elections, and thousands of other things are going in life.

You can't compare studying the history of the universe to predicting the future of the stock market, etc... that's not a proper analogy, and nobody is going to be stupid enough to believe that makes sense

If you had any brains at all, you would be scientifically checking into why the Bible is a solid, eye witness record, of things that happened in the past

Please stop beginning and ending your posts with insults... try to use facts and evidence to convince people you are right... insulting someone only proves you are angry and wrong

One of the greatest facts is that people can't figure out how to determine the future of tomorrow, from the clear statistics of the last hundred years.

A second fact is that they think that they can determine today from vague ideas that they can't even agree on, of history from hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago, when they know they can't even predict tomorrow from the clear statistics of the last hundred years.

A third fact is that I am not insulting these people. They are insulting themselves by using great math in their works, and yet not being able to put two and two together to see how stupid they are acting. All I am doing is pointing out their stupidity to them in the hopes that they will realize just how foolishly they are acting... so that they can see it, and then change.

Cool
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November 01, 2018, 01:57:47 PM
Merited by Flying Hellfish (5)
 #8207


As compared to what?  Your dream?  Life originated in liquid water.

You are just trolling me.  You cannot be that stupid.

If you want to discuss the origin of life and how a man was created you have to use evidence other than what the Bible says.

Bible requires faith.  Faith is not a reliable way to discover the truth.


LOL! You don't even realize how stupid that is, do you?... that anybody would think he can figure out what happened hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the past. Let me show you how stupid it is.

Today, right now, we have hundreds of thousands or millions of smart mathematicians trying to figure out where the Forex, the stock market, the derivatives market, the nations, elections, and thousands of other things are going in life. What do they use to do their calculations? Statistics from literally yesterday, on back through the well-documented history of the last hundred years.

What are the results of all their calculations from the well-documented statistics history? Good guesses. Why guesses? Because they all flub it good, on a regular basis. They all get it wrong here and there.

And you think that some self-styled scientists can take a look at some vague history that they think relates to hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago, and determine how life originated back then? You think that they are way smarter than the mathematicians who are using accurate statistics from the last hundred years - statistics that are right close to today - but still caqn't figure out what is going on today? LOL! You can't even understand how stupid that sounds, can you?

If you had any brains at all, you would be scientifically checking into why the Bible is a solid, eye witness record, of things that happened in the past, and how it is the Word of God given to people by God, so some of them can be saved.

Cool

Imagine 5000 years from now, people will discover the Apple OS 31.0 source code.  It will contain a significant AI breakthrough code and some people will claim that John Smith wrote it, others will point out that it was Jane Smith, while others will claim that it was their son Josua.  They will argue about it, write e-books about it, start new political AI movements based on it, and eventually start wars to reaffirm the superiority of their beliefs.  Meanwhile, the code in Apple OS 31.0 will be invalidated by computer scientists, many bugs and security holes will be found.  Basically, that code will be used as an example to teach kindergarten kids how to not write the AI code.

This is what people do today when they claim that Talmud, Bible or Koran are revelations from God.

Do you see how stupid the religious ideologies are?  Not only they teach you nonsense, but the moral code they espouse is abhorrent.

I am telling you that faith will lead you into the moral abyss of the Bronze Age/6th century.

When you abandon reason you become as ignorant as Jesus's disciples or Muhammad's companions.
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November 01, 2018, 02:02:40 PM
 #8208

Do you see how stupid the religious ideologies are?  Not only they teach you nonsense, but the moral code they espouse is abhorrent.

Have you checked out Buddhism?

As much as I abhor religion (and you know I do), I can't seem to find these flaws with Buddhism...
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November 01, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
 #8209


As compared to what?  Your dream?  Life originated in liquid water.

You are just trolling me.  You cannot be that stupid.

If you want to discuss the origin of life and how a man was created you have to use evidence other than what the Bible says.

Bible requires faith.  Faith is not a reliable way to discover the truth.


LOL! You don't even realize how stupid that is, do you?... that anybody would think he can figure out what happened hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the past. Let me show you how stupid it is.

Today, right now, we have hundreds of thousands or millions of smart mathematicians trying to figure out where the Forex, the stock market, the derivatives market, the nations, elections, and thousands of other things are going in life. What do they use to do their calculations? Statistics from literally yesterday, on back through the well-documented history of the last hundred years.

What are the results of all their calculations from the well-documented statistics history? Good guesses. Why guesses? Because they all flub it good, on a regular basis. They all get it wrong here and there.

And you think that some self-styled scientists can take a look at some vague history that they think relates to hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago, and determine how life originated back then? You think that they are way smarter than the mathematicians who are using accurate statistics from the last hundred years - statistics that are right close to today - but still caqn't figure out what is going on today? LOL! You can't even understand how stupid that sounds, can you?

If you had any brains at all, you would be scientifically checking into why the Bible is a solid, eye witness record, of things that happened in the past, and how it is the Word of God given to people by God, so some of them can be saved.

Cool

Imagine 5000 years from now, people will discover the Apple OS 31.0 source code.  It will contain a significant AI breakthrough code and some people will claim that John Smith wrote it, others will point out that it was Jane Smith, while others will claim that it was their son Josua.  They will argue about it, write e-books about it, start new political AI movements based on it, and eventually start wars to reaffirm the superiority of their beliefs.  Meanwhile, the code in Apple OS 31.0 will be invalidated by computer scientists, many bugs and security holes will be found.  Basically, that code will be used as an example to teach kindergarten kids how to not write the AI code.

This is what people do today when they claim that Talmud, Bible or Koran are revelations from God.

Do you see how stupid the religious ideologies are?  Not only they teach you nonsense, but the moral code they espouse is abhorrent.

I am telling you that faith will lead you into the moral abyss of the Bronze Age/6th century.

When you abandon reason you become as ignorant as Jesus's disciples or Muhammad's companions.

People refer to things that include the Talmud, Bible or Koran, as religions. The Talmud, Bible or Koran are from less than a hand full of thousands of years in the past. So, how much more foolish the science religion of today that claims they understand things from the ancient past of hundreds of thousands or millions of years in the past. That kind of science is one of the stupidest religions around.

Get back on track. If you can't properly determine tomorrow from the statistics of the last hundred years, and if you won't agree with the statistics of the Talmud, Bible or Koran, how do you think that you can have even the wildest inkling of what went on hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago? You are deluding yourself.

Wake up.

Cool
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November 01, 2018, 02:49:32 PM
 #8210

Do you see how stupid the religious ideologies are?  Not only they teach you nonsense, but the moral code they espouse is abhorrent.

Have you checked out Buddhism?

As much as I abhor religion (and you know I do), I can't seem to find flaws with Buddhism... just saying

I am intrigued by the meditation and the inner reflection aspect of it.  I think I read in Sam Harris book that there are some monks that can dissociate their own ego from their mind and see the world in a completely different way.  

I have a hard time accepting the rebirth idea because I cannot prove that animals (humans) have a soul and I cannot prove that there is life after death.  It is all too supernatural to give it a serious consideration.

I think you have to put your secular glasses on when you read the Buddist doctrine as this ideology is not immune to violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

You have to cherry pick the good bits but the moral code is better than any of the Abrahamic religions.

Buddhism, quite simply, is a path to inner wisdom... dissociation with the ego is normal and expected... you can't see the truth when you blind yourself from it (ex. BADecker)

Reincarnation is a bit sketchy, and usually just used as an excuse similar to "god did it".  I'm fairly convinced this is used as a tool, not meant to be taken literally.  Buddhists say things like, "When you want to enter a house, you might pick up a brick to knock on the door, but you don't carry that brick into the house with you"... or "When you want to cross a river, you use a boat to get across, but you don't carry the boat with you once you get to the other side"... basically, once you get it, you get it, and don't need to use those tools anymore

There are no violent teaching of any kind in Buddhism... if a Buddhist is violent, it simply shows that he doesn't understand... people from any religion can be violent, particularly if they don't get it

I haven't had to cherry pick anything from Buddhism... I can't find much that I disagree with beyond perhaps Rebirth since there is no scientific evidence for it (though it does make a lot more sense than having 1 life to find the correct religion or whatever)
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November 01, 2018, 05:07:36 PM
Last edit: November 02, 2018, 12:13:17 AM by Moloch
 #8211

I think what you are looking for is Buddism, less the supernatural BS.  Do not harm others, control your urges, etc.

I am more of an animalist myself.  I used to hunt, which I regret to this day.  When you kill a sentient being, part of you dies with it.

I always lived below my means, did not need to have the latest greatest toys, retired early, so I guess maybe I am a Buddist LOL.

What annoys me the most about religions is their supernatural claims and their moral standard or lack thereof.

I see Buddhism more as a self-improvement manual.  It teaches you how to explore the cause of 'suffering' (i.e. mental anguish, stress, fear, anger, etc) in order to take control of it and rise above all that nonsense... the woo-woo is optional

I'm not a fan of supernatural claims either.  I tend to gloss over the parts where people talk about gods, past lives, etc.  I don't believe in chi or any supernatural energy.  IMHO, a good Buddhist teacher doesn't even mention these things.

I'm a big fan of Alan Watts.  He is very theatrical, makes a great performance and speaks a language I grok.  There are plenty of other teachers if he doesn't strike your fancy.  Ajahn Brahm and Ajahn Chah are also good
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November 03, 2018, 04:30:09 PM
 #8212

Do you see how stupid the religious ideologies are?  Not only they teach you nonsense, but the moral code they espouse is abhorrent.

Have you checked out Buddhism?

As much as I abhor religion (and you know I do), I can't seem to find these flaws with Buddhism...

If you cleanse Buddhism of religious peels, you can see that this is a very useful guide to psychology and self-improvement. I think that then all the research needed to be tied to religion in order to give them significance.

Now religion is a relic of the past and my hair stands on end when I realize that someone takes it all seriously.

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November 03, 2018, 08:46:24 PM
 #8213

Do you see how stupid the religious ideologies are?  Not only they teach you nonsense, but the moral code they espouse is abhorrent.

Have you checked out Buddhism?

As much as I abhor religion (and you know I do), I can't seem to find these flaws with Buddhism...

If you cleanse Buddhism of religious peels, you can see that this is a very useful guide to psychology and self-improvement. I think that then all the research needed to be tied to religion in order to give them significance.

Now religion is a relic of the past and my hair stands on end when I realize that someone takes it all seriously.

But people don't change. Get rid of all the religious people in the world, and all of their religions, and in a couple hundred years, all kinds of religions will be back.

Cool
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November 04, 2018, 02:35:42 AM
Merited by Flying Hellfish (5)
 #8214

I grew up Catholic but always had some problems and skepticism when it came to religion.  I remmeber questioning stories as early and 2nd and 3rd grade.  I felt betrayed by the santa clause lie and always saw similarities between god and santa clause. 

By high school, myself and many of my classmates started to recognize moral objections we had with things in the bible and catechism.  What kind of cruel god would destroy entire cities or trick a follower into trying to kill their son.  This sounded more like the work of a psychopath than an omnipotent being.  The rules against safe sex and masterbation make no sense to anyone and have perpetuated a lot of suffering needlessly.

Also, what happened to god?  He used to be really active then just disappeared from his interactions with humanity.  Why not bother to show up anymore?  If god was so powerful and loving, why would he only reveal himself to a small group of people for a short amount of time.  Why "chose" certain people?  Why neglect most of the world for most of human history?

By university, I studied science and sharpened by reasoning skills.  So many things in the bible are complete fiction.  These years pretty much slammed the door shut on me being agnostic/atheist. 

I don't hate religion as I think there are lessons to be learned just like in greek mythology and fictional stories.  I respect all religions equally and think there is value to be gained from all of them, even the polytheistic ones.  Religion gives a lot of people structure and discipline.  Good for them. 
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November 04, 2018, 09:51:41 AM
 #8215

Being an atheist I definitely don’t hate religion, it is wonderful the hope it gives so many. For me it’s just a bridge too far and science is something I have faith in. Hope everyone is well and respects everyone else’s beliefs.
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November 04, 2018, 12:10:04 PM
 #8216

I'm agnostic. I was born Catholic and raised as an Evangelical Christian, went to church every Sunday. As I got older I started drifting away from the church. I believe that there is a creator, just not a religious one. Religion and racism have been the biggest banes in our existence IMO. So much death and hate because of it for thousands of years.  I don't judge anyone's religion, to each his own. Just live righteous and don't impose your religion on others, that's it.  Smiley

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November 04, 2018, 01:16:09 PM
 #8217

Being an atheist I definitely don’t hate religion, it is wonderful the hope it gives so many. For me it’s just a bridge too far and science is something I have faith in. Hope everyone is well and respects everyone else’s beliefs.

BTW, science does not need faith.  Are you sure you understand science?

I don't hate God(s) the same way I don't hate Snow White, Zeus or Santa Claus.

I do however hate religion(s).  With passion.  Their indoctrination of children is appalling.  Their cover-up of sexual abuses is abhorrent.
Their public demands are insulting my intelligence.

I heard Snow White can be a bit of a cunt so I kinda hate her hehe.

For me I would add things to the list like the extreme hypocrisy of religion, the blinders you have to wear to believe religion, and lastly the scariest thing for me is the control the dogma exerts and the desire to be mentally subjected.

As an example I think it's disingenuous to say religion is the cause of most wars, in reality it's usually way more complicated than saying religion caused war, economic, social and geopolitical conditions all make the cause of most wars very complicated and rarely rest on a single point.

The problem with religious dogma is that it makes it very easy for them to get riled up to the point of supporting a war for the wrong reasons.

Christopher Hitchens said it best (paraphrasing here because I'm to lazy to go find it LOL):  
(Q) How do you make a good person do evil things?  
(A) Teach him religion.

Man would be a far more moral being if we never invented religion...  Animals aren't religious and we are just the apex animal no matter how much smarter we are than apes!  Animals are social and as the apex animal it's clear that we thrive in social environments, perhaps t0o much so!

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November 04, 2018, 02:45:22 PM
 #8218

Being an atheist I definitely don’t hate religion, it is wonderful the hope it gives so many. For me it’s just a bridge too far and science is something I have faith in. Hope everyone is well and respects everyone else’s beliefs.

BTW, science does not need faith.  Are you sure you understand science?

I don't hate God(s) the same way I don't hate Snow White, Zeus or Santa Claus.

I do however hate religion(s).  With passion.  Their indoctrination of children is appalling.  Their cover-up of sexual abuses is abhorrent.
Their public demands are insulting my intelligence.

I heard Snow White can be a bit of a cunt so I kinda hate her hehe.

For me I would add things to the list like the extreme hypocrisy of religion, the blinders you have to wear to believe religion, and lastly the scariest thing for me is the control the dogma exerts and the desire to be mentally subjected.

As an example I think it's disingenuous to say religion is the cause of most wars, in reality it's usually way more complicated than saying religion caused war, economic, social and geopolitical conditions all make the cause of most wars very complicated and rarely rest on a single point.

The problem with religious dogma is that it makes it very easy for them to get riled up to the point of supporting a war for the wrong reasons.

Christopher Hitchens said it best (paraphrasing here because I'm to lazy to go find it LOL):  
(Q) How do you make a good person do evil things?  
(A) Teach him religion.

Man would be a far more moral being if we never invented religion...  Animals aren't religious and we are just the apex animal no matter how much smarter we are than apes!  Animals are social and as the apex animal it's clear that we thrive in social environments, perhaps t0o much so!

The point of 100% of the non-cult religions is to help people be better people. Even Islam with its ideas on jihad is there to make people into Muslims, and Muslims into better people. Notice that the idea isn't to make good people into better people. The idea is to make bad people into better people. There aren't really any good people.

Atheists don't like religion because it tries to make them better people.

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November 04, 2018, 03:00:47 PM
 #8219

There aren't really any good people.
Aren't there, though? Are you telling us that you've never, in your entire life, met a single person who is good? If so, that would explain a few things. Knowing nothing but evil is obviously going to cause a great deal of mental stress and negative thinking. It's not your fault.

Atheists don't like religion because it tries to make them better people.
It's not so much that it tries to better people as the fact that it so consistently fails to do so. What's the road to Hell paved with again?

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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November 04, 2018, 04:54:51 PM
 #8220

Atheists try to be good people not because they threaten us with hell or seduce with paradise. Not. We are not children and we grew out of such a worldview.
We are good people, because we know what empathy is, we know that people treat well, this is the best strategy possible. Mathematically.

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