Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud)

[Zarathustra]

[–]justusranvier [Bewertung versteckt] vor 11 Minuten

Bitcoin is - for good or for ill - going to follow those who produce the majority of the economic value.

Whether we like it or not, Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have a lot of power because when they exit they can convince more people to follow them because of positive economics:

"Follow me and I'll give you the things that you want: access to liquidity, merchants, and users."

The 1MB side can't do that because they don't have a positive economic value to offer, or at least what they're selling doesn't have many customers.

All they can offer is negative economics:

"Follow me and I'll refrain from verbally abusing you."

I see justusranvier doing his best to stoop to new lows everyday. At this point I can only believe he's getting paid for his opinion.

Coinbase, Bitpay & Bc.info the "economic majority"?

This is all sorts of hilarious.

Blockstream has some shills, but no customers. Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have millions of customers. That's the difference.

Millions of customers with a grand total of 1M (maybe) BTC in between them.

Such economic majority  

Did we forget Bitpay was on the verge of bankruptcy 1 month ago?

To have Millions of customers (coinbase, bitpay, blockchain.info) is better than having no customers (blockstream).
That's the reason why the companies with the customers will win the race.
"It's the economy, stupid!"

Bitcoin have millions of users.


not customers.

Fiat has billions of users. But "it's the economy, stupid!"

and XT has 426 nodes as well as 0 blocks out of the last 1000 mined.

what "economic majority" are you speaking of ?

XT is triggering big blocks coming next year, via several implementations.

[–]Noosterdam 4 Punkte vor 34 Minuten

It wasn't a mistake. Gavin did the right thing by exerting exit pressure (XT) rather than voice pressure (staying in Core), because having one monolithic implementation has already become Bitcoin's weak point. People think XT needs to reach 75% of mining power for it to succeed, but it doesn't. It just needs to hang over Core's head. Exit pressure is stronger than voice pressure, and it helps crack the centralization weak point of Core. Short term, we suffer some pain due to delayed blocksize increase, but long term we are spared greater pain by entering billion or trillion dollar market caps without the millstone of centralized development.

[brg444]

 

[bambou]

[–]justusranvier [Bewertung versteckt] vor 11 Minuten

Bitcoin is - for good or for ill - going to follow those who produce the majority of the economic value.

Whether we like it or not, Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have a lot of power because when they exit they can convince more people to follow them because of positive economics:

"Follow me and I'll give you the things that you want: access to liquidity, merchants, and users."

The 1MB side can't do that because they don't have a positive economic value to offer, or at least what they're selling doesn't have many customers.

All they can offer is negative economics:

"Follow me and I'll refrain from verbally abusing you."

I see justusranvier doing his best to stoop to new lows everyday. At this point I can only believe he's getting paid for his opinion.

Coinbase, Bitpay & Bc.info the "economic majority"?

This is all sorts of hilarious.

Blockstream has some shills, but no customers. Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have millions of customers. That's the difference.

Millions of customers with a grand total of 1M (maybe) BTC in between them.

Such economic majority 

Did we forget Bitpay was on the verge of bankruptcy 1 month ago?

To have Millions of customers (coinbase, bitpay, blockchain.info) is better than having no customers (blockstream).
That's the reason why the companies with the customers will win the race.
"It's the economy, stupid!"

Bitcoin have millions of users.


not customers.

Fiat has billions of users. But "it's the economy, stupid!"

and XT has 426 nodes as well as 0 blocks out of the last 1000 mined.

what "economic majority" are you speaking of ?

XT is triggering big blocks coming next year, via several emplementations.

[–]Noosterdam 4 Punkte vor 34 Minuten

It wasn't a mistake. Gavin did the right thing by exerting exit pressure (XT) rather than voice pressure (staying in Core), because having one monolithic implementation has already become Bitcoin's weak point. People think XT needs to reach 75% of mining power for it to succeed, but it doesn't. It just needs to hang over Core's head. Exit pressure is stronger than voice pressure, and it helps crack the centralization weak point of Core. Short term, we suffer some pain due to delayed blocksize increase, but long term we are spared greater pain by entering billion or trillion dollar market caps without the millstone of centralized development.

Is there a fancy countdown or something?

[muyuu]

For high values of 0 per thousand they have a majority 

[Zarathustra]

[–]justusranvier [Bewertung versteckt] vor 11 Minuten

Bitcoin is - for good or for ill - going to follow those who produce the majority of the economic value.

Whether we like it or not, Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have a lot of power because when they exit they can convince more people to follow them because of positive economics:

"Follow me and I'll give you the things that you want: access to liquidity, merchants, and users."

The 1MB side can't do that because they don't have a positive economic value to offer, or at least what they're selling doesn't have many customers.

All they can offer is negative economics:

"Follow me and I'll refrain from verbally abusing you."

I see justusranvier doing his best to stoop to new lows everyday. At this point I can only believe he's getting paid for his opinion.

Coinbase, Bitpay & Bc.info the "economic majority"?

This is all sorts of hilarious.

Blockstream has some shills, but no customers. Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have millions of customers. That's the difference.

Millions of customers with a grand total of 1M (maybe) BTC in between them.

Such economic majority  

Did we forget Bitpay was on the verge of bankruptcy 1 month ago?

To have Millions of customers (coinbase, bitpay, blockchain.info) is better than having no customers (blockstream).
That's the reason why the companies with the customers will win the race.
"It's the economy, stupid!"

Bitcoin have millions of users.


not customers.

Fiat has billions of users. But "it's the economy, stupid!"

and XT has 426 nodes as well as 0 blocks out of the last 1000 mined.

what "economic majority" are you speaking of ?

XT is triggering big blocks coming next year, via several emplementations.

[–]Noosterdam 4 Punkte vor 34 Minuten

It wasn't a mistake. Gavin did the right thing by exerting exit pressure (XT) rather than voice pressure (staying in Core), because having one monolithic implementation has already become Bitcoin's weak point. People think XT needs to reach 75% of mining power for it to succeed, but it doesn't. It just needs to hang over Core's head. Exit pressure is stronger than voice pressure, and it helps crack the centralization weak point of Core. Short term, we suffer some pain due to delayed blocksize increase, but long term we are spared greater pain by entering billion or trillion dollar market caps without the millstone of centralized development.

Is there a fancy countdown or something?

The blockstream shills here should risk a bet. Next year this time we'll have at least a doubled blocksize cap, triggered by XT, and Mister Maxwell can't do anything against it, because of lacking economic power.

[brg444]

The blockstream shills here should risk a bet. Next year this time we'll have at least a doubled blocksize cap, triggered by XT, and Mister Maxwell can't do anything against it, because of lacking economic power.

So that's what the narrative has turned into heh 

Whatever happens to XT, it died for our freedom. May it lives in martyrdom!

[Zarathustra]

The blockstream shills here should risk a bet. Next year this time we'll have at least a doubled blocksize cap, triggered by XT, and Mister Maxwell can't do anything against it, because of lacking economic power.

So that's what the narrative has turned into heh 

Whatever happens to XT, it died for our freedom. May it lives in martyrdom!

It has not turned. I said it always. Those who fight XT every day and all day long are fighting a proxy war. But they don't want to listen.

[tvbcof]

Blockstream has some shills, but no customers. Coinbase, Bitpay and Blockchain.info have millions of customers. That's the difference.

I, for one, am sitting on my BTC in anticipation of sidechains.  Were it not for that I very well may have sold a few the other day though Coinbase since the price got within striking distance of what I wanted before doing any more adjustments.  As it is I have not made a Bitcoin transaction for about a year and a half now.

I don't even want to use use blockchain.info any more since Ver has been such a disappointing sellout.  Sometime before Coinbase has a chance to XTaint the BTC of mine that they control (and keep the real BTC for themselves) I'll pull off what I have at risk with them and, again, hopefully I can send them straight to someone who has a realistic sidechain prototype going (and some semblance of ethics which align with my own.)  My only use for Coinbase going forward will be to dump my XTainted coins after *I* split them.

[mayax]

blockchain.info was hacked for several times

bitpay = almost bankrupt

coinbase = financed by same shareholders as Bitstamp, BTC China, Bitfinex, etc....so they don't cover the expenses. they are financed;nothing more. if coinbase would be left without capital injections, they won't be able to cover the expenses from what they "produce"

[muyuu]

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

[marcus_of_augustus]

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

hmmm, i thought the correlation was obvious from when it first became "a thing"

[tvbcof]

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

Yes, that is a factor (I think.)  Another is that many of the participants were drawn to Bitcoin for specific reasons, and those reasons are correlated with the ability of the state to put them under pressures of various sorts.  Other's were probably just to stupid and greedy (aka, 'principled') to keep their noses clean wrt taxes and their testes retreated into their abdominal cavity when the finally recognized the potential ramification at rubber-meets-the-road time.

[Carlton Banks]

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

B-b-b-but but people like Gavin Andresen and Roger Ver describe themselves, respectively, as a libertarian and an anarchist! Just because they support a dev-team coup that puts Bitcoin back under corporate-state control, doesn't make them a pair of fakes, does it? Roger once went to prison over illegal bird feed, he's the most committed anti-state guy out there!

[bambou]

Special thanks to the antanapoulos brainwasher as starbuck's undercover publicist.

[theymos]

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

That's definitely part of it. This is really clear when you compare the XT/101 discussion on Reddit (which is filled mainly with the normal Reddit crowd) to the discussion on bitcointalk.org (which still has a lot of the original Bitcoiners and quite a bit of the original Bitcoin philosophy).

[iCEBREAKER]

 

[muyuu]

Do you guys think bigblockism is related to the increased number of mainstream statists in the community?

I think the overlap is large.

https://archive.is/UE8qf

hmmm, i thought the correlation was obvious from when it first became "a thing"

Yes, that is a factor (I think.)  Another is that many of the participants were drawn to Bitcoin for specific reasons, and those reasons are correlated with the ability of the state to put them under pressures of various sorts.  Other's were probably just to stupid and greedy (aka, 'principled') to keep their noses clean wrt taxes and their testes retreated into their abdominal cavity when the finally recognized the potential ramification at rubber-meets-the-road time.

B-b-b-but but people like Gavin Andresen and Roger Ver describe themselves, respectively, as a libertarian and an anarchist! Just because they support a dev-team coup that puts Bitcoin back under corporate-state control, doesn't make them a pair of fakes, does it? Roger once went to prison over illegal bird feed, he's the most committed anti-state guy out there!

Special thanks to the antanapoulos brainwasher as starbuck's undercover publicist.

That's definitely part of it. This is really clear when you compare the XT/101 discussion on Reddit (which is filled mainly with the normal Reddit crowd) to the discussion on bitcointalk.org (which still has a lot of the original Bitcoiners and quite a bit of the original Bitcoin philosophy).

Thing is some old schoolers have bought into it fully, apparently. Even in the post from today the disconnect between what some are saying and their position on bigblocks is apparent, so at least politically the overlap while it may be large, it's certainly not complete.

[bambou]

As per genuinely illustrated with TBF fiasco, who gives a shite about their saying anyway?

Bitcoin does not work that way.

[CoinSkipper]

Bitcoin XT is basically a new bitcoin that is profitable for Coinbase. No one supported it from the beginning. No one will in the future. The original is the one and only, and no fake can best it. Bitcoin XT was never going to be a success, anyway.

[notbatman]

Bitcoin XT is basically a new bitcoin that is profitable for Coinbase. No one supported it from the beginning. No one will in the future. The original is the one and only, and no fake can best it. Bitcoin XT was never going to be a success, anyway.

I suspect XT has achieved exactly the effect "they" intended it to. I don't believe the real force behind the XT push ever intended or believed it would gain adoption.

Beat the price of BTC down, FUD and "divide & conquer", mission accomplished.