Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud)

[knight22]

You lost badly. Just admit it.

So when you say that I have lost, I personally do not see it as being so adversarial though. The main thing however that I have been advocating for is the freedom of choice. So if I have lost does that mean the freedom of choice has lost? Does that not mean then that we have all lost?

What freedom of choice   , you're clearly advocating for XT and huge blocks. So, if I get it correctly, if I am supporting freedom of choice then I should support XT, right? If I'm not supporting XT, then I'm a totalitarian.  

Because Bitcoin survived this social attack, we have all won  

Except you perhaps...

There is no such thing as a social attack with bitcoin. Bitcoin is a tool and people can do whatever they want with it such as modify the consensus rules among participants.

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[knight22]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

[VeritasSapere]

You lost badly. Just admit it.

So when you say that I have lost, I personally do not see it as being so adversarial though. The main thing however that I have been advocating for is the freedom of choice. So if I have lost does that mean the freedom of choice has lost? Does that not mean then that we have all lost?

What freedom of choice   , you're clearly advocating for XT and huge blocks. So, if I get it correctly, if I am supporting freedom of choice then I should support XT, right? If I'm not supporting XT, then I'm a totalitarian.  

Because Bitcoin survived this social attack, we have all won  

Except you perhaps...

I support multiple implementations of the Bitcoin protocol, regardless of their content, this is what gives people the freedom of choice. Only having one choice in an election is the equivalent of totalitarianism after all.

You don't need to do that. Bitcoin Core is a free and open source software. Even if it's developers would be tyrants seeking to destroy anyone who would not use their software, you would be free to fork it, thus creating another implementation of the Bitcoin protocol. This is guaranteed by it's licensing. You can read that.

You are contradicting yourself. On the one hand you are saying that I do not need to do that, which by I presume you are referring to supporting and creating alternative implementations. Yet on the other hand you are saying that this is what guarantees Bitcoins freedom which I do actually agree with. You are actually contradicting yourself here since this is exactly what Gavin and Mike did do.

So what then are you actually disagreeing with? We both have the free choice to support any alternative implementation that we want. I was also arguing against the people who are trying to convince the community that we should not have this choice, this is where the danger of totalitarianism lies, being convinced that we do not have the freedom of choice, through appeals to authority and reverence towards Core.

[hdbuck]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[knight22]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[img]http://-snip-[img]

So there will be corpcoin and nichecoin. The choice will be yours.

[brg444]

Meanwhile BIP65 well on its way to achieve 100% miners consensus, something VS previously deemed "impossible"

https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/block_version/5y?c=block_version&r=week&t=a

[VeritasSapere]

Meanwhile BIP65 well on its way to achieve 100% miners consensus, something VS previously deemed "impossible"

https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/block_version/5y?c=block_version&r=week&t=a

Such a high degree of consensus is impossible for contentious changes. I have never said that such a high degree of consensus is impossible for changes that are not contentious. Please get it right, otherwise you are just constructing another straw man.

[brg444]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[img]http://-snip-[img]

So there will be corpcoin and nichecoin. The choice will be yours.

In other words a beat down Honda vs. a Ferrari. I know which one I choose 

[VeritasSapere]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[img]http://-snip-[img]

So there will be corpcoin and nichecoin. The choice will be yours.

In other words a beat down Honda vs. a Ferrari. I know which one I choose  

I would choose the Honda, less expensive and more reliable.

[brg444]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[img]http://-snip-[img]

So there will be corpcoin and nichecoin. The choice will be yours.

In other words a beat down Honda vs. a Ferrari. I know which one I choose  

I would choose the Honda, less expensive and more reliable.

That just goes to show how economically illiterate you are.

http://www.contravex.com/2014/03/13/on-making-bitcoin-accessible-or-not/

[VeritasSapere]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[img]http://-snip-[img]

So there will be corpcoin and nichecoin. The choice will be yours.

In other words a beat down Honda vs. a Ferrari. I know which one I choose  

I would choose the Honda, less expensive and more reliable.

That just goes to show how economically illiterate you are.

http://www.contravex.com/2014/03/13/on-making-bitcoin-accessible-or-not/

I strongly disagree with the economic theory in this article, furthermore it quotes Warren Buffet to make its points, someone I certainly also often disagree with. Whatever your economic beliefs might be it does not change that I think that Bitcoin economic policy should not be decided on by a small group of technical experts in the form of Core.

[brg444]

You are actually supporting XT and huge blocks. You are among the last standing supporters. Even knight appears to run out of time for this.

Really? https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3u9moq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/

I don’t run out of time for this but arguing at this point is useless. Most people are in “wait and see” mode until December. If a consensus doesn’t emerge after that workshop, then Core will be forked by the industry.

inb4 corpcoin.

[img]http://-snip-[img]

So there will be corpcoin and nichecoin. The choice will be yours.

In other words a beat down Honda vs. a Ferrari. I know which one I choose  

I would choose the Honda, less expensive and more reliable.

That just goes to show how economically illiterate you are.

http://www.contravex.com/2014/03/13/on-making-bitcoin-accessible-or-not/

I strongly disagree with the economic theory in this article, furthermore it quotes Warren Buffet to make its points, someone I certainly also often disagree with. Whatever your economic beliefs might be it does not change that I do not think that Bitcoin economic policy should be decided on by a small group of technical experts in the form of Core.

We can start having a discussion when you stop entertaining this blatant BS.

Until then, you're just another troll. Enjoy your irrelevancy

[laurentmt]

That's supposed to tell us what exactly? That under the most optimal technical environment "the network" can substain large blocks?
I'm shocked  

Actually, no, they've been having huge problems with it; with nodes crashing all over the place and such. Of course: Bitcoin Core nodes on testnet are unaffected: They're just ignoring the XT chain entirely, banning those peers, and continuing on as if they didn't exist.

I'm a bit surprised to read this.
I'm not fond of Bitcoin XT & BIP101 but having being vocal about the lack of tests, I've decided to setup a XT node on a VPS for this test.
This node is pretty weak (1 vCore, 2Go RAM, windows as OS) but so far everything has been fine with no crash.
Anyway, it doesn't change my mind that BIP101 without prior works on the P2P protocol isn't a good idea.

[jtoomim]

Actually, no, they've been having huge problems with it; with nodes crashing all over the place and such. Of course: Bitcoin Core nodes on testnet are unaffected: They're just ignoring the XT chain entirely, banning those peers, and continuing on as if they didn't exist.

We did have some trouble with a couple of features that I was testing out in parallel -- namely, Mike Hearn's alpha thin blocks patch (which works 99% of the time, unfortunately) and the BIP65 + low-S patch for BitcoinXT (which has some problems when heavily reorging and removing a block that contains either a high-S transaction or an invalid OP_CLTV instruction). However, these are unrelated to BIP101 and large blocks. So far, as far as I know, we have not had any crashes or problems due to large blocks themselves.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I noticed the price had an upside bias since Mike's ragequit moment, coincidence?

Gavin, give it up, XT has more baggage than a trophy wife going on holiday.

[hdbuck]

Actually, no, they've been having huge problems with it; with nodes crashing all over the place and such. Of course: Bitcoin Core nodes on testnet are unaffected: They're just ignoring the XT chain entirely, banning those peers, and continuing on as if they didn't exist.

We did have some trouble with a couple of features that I was testing out in parallel -- namely, Mike Hearn's alpha thin blocks patch (which works 99% of the time, unfortunately) and the BIP65 + low-S patch for BitcoinXT (which has some problems when heavily reorging and removing a block that contains either a high-S transaction or an invalid OP_CLTV instruction). However, these are unrelated to BIP101 and large blocks. So far, as far as I know, we have not had any crashes or problems due to large blocks themselves.

it is not about crashes..

[brg444]

I noticed the price had an upside bias since Mike's ragequit moment, coincidence?

Gavin, give it up, XT has more baggage than a trophy wife going on holiday.

LoLCows over at bitco.in claiming Gavin's consideration of XT "leadership" is actually responsible for the rise  

[tvbcof]

Actually, no, they've been having huge problems with it; with nodes crashing all over the place and such. Of course: Bitcoin Core nodes on testnet are unaffected: They're just ignoring the XT chain entirely, banning those peers, and continuing on as if they didn't exist.

We did have some trouble with a couple of features that I was testing out in parallel -- namely, Mike Hearn's alpha thin blocks patch (which works 99% of the time, unfortunately) and the BIP65 + low-S patch for BitcoinXT (which has some problems when heavily reorging and removing a block that contains either a high-S transaction or an invalid OP_CLTV instruction). However, these are unrelated to BIP101 and large blocks. So far, as far as I know, we have not had any crashes or problems due to large blocks themselves.

it is not about crashes..

Crashes are rarely a show-stopper.  Most of the time such things are figured out fairly quickly and some stability is achieved (but not always.)

I believe that I did predict a quarter or two ago that the XT-ish ilk will need to find an excuse to switch over to Conformal's 'btcd' protocol implementation.  A no-brainer for this would be 'inherent instability' in the Satoshi-based C++ implementation.

It was around three months ago IIRC that Gavin made a quip about learning go-lang.  I remember that when he did I already had my prediction made about the bloatchain fork, btcd, (and etc) so his comment simply added some more confidence to my prediction about how the takeover attempt would be going down.

[Peter R]

LoLCows over at bitco.in

Moooo!   

[Zarathustra]

I noticed the price had an upside bias since Mike's ragequit moment, coincidence?

Gavin, give it up, XT has more baggage than a trophy wife going on holiday.

LoLCows over at bitco.in claiming Gavin's consideration of XT "leadership" is actually responsible for the rise  

Which is obvious. The market is realizing that Gavin's actions will lead to an increased cap soonish and the stalemate tactics will come to an end. Whether it is via BIP101 by this or that implementation or another enforced compromise is not that important. Adam's/Wuille's BIP 103 joke with no increase until half a year after the halvening will not be accepted by the market.
Gavin still enjoys an overwhelming support, even on theymos' 'moderated' subreddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u9mnq/gavin_andresen_i_might_take_over_lead_of_bitcoin/