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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134464 times)
acf6996
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May 01, 2013, 08:39:37 AM
 #1081

Since the wishlist seems to be open again... Wink

For lenders who want their money back before the loan expires automatically:

It would be a nice feature if the lender could switch his loan against loan offers of another lender at same or better interest rate for the trader.

This means
loans at VIR can be switched against other loans at VIR
loans at fixed interest can be switched against lower interest

For both cases the new expiration period has to be same or longer than original loan.


I am pretty sure this came up already sometimes. But I think so far only switching loans for traders has been introduced.
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BurtW
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May 01, 2013, 10:33:55 AM
 #1082

Since the wishlist seems to be open again... Wink

For lenders who want their money back before the loan expires automatically:

It would be a nice feature if the lender could switch his loan against loan offers of another lender at same or better interest rate for the trader.

This means
loans at VIR can be switched against other loans at VIR
loans at fixed interest can be switched against lower interest

For both cases the new expiration period has to be same or longer than original loan.


I am pretty sure this came up already sometimes. But I think so far only switching loans for traders has been introduced.

This is a GREAT idea.  Refinancing (at a lower rate)!

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
unclescrooge
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May 01, 2013, 11:47:37 AM
 #1083

Hello,

This is a great idea, and it never came up like this. The way you propose it is actually lot more easy to implement. Let me keep it on the list, I'll try to add that soon Smiley

Raphael

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May 01, 2013, 12:46:28 PM
 #1084

Ideally one could even make small profits from that by keeping the interest towards the lendee highand relending the money you got back.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
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oakpacific
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May 01, 2013, 12:52:42 PM
 #1085

Hello,

This is a great idea, and it never came up like this. The way you propose it is actually lot more easy to implement. Let me keep it on the list, I'll try to add that soon Smiley

Raphael

Hmmm, what about the FOK order Raphael?

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unclescrooge
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May 01, 2013, 01:19:19 PM
 #1086

Hello,

This is a great idea, and it never came up like this. The way you propose it is actually lot more easy to implement. Let me keep it on the list, I'll try to add that soon Smiley

Raphael

Hmmm, what about the FOK order Raphael?

Oh sorry to have skip that part.

If I understand, it applies to market order right? Either fill immediately, or cancel after xx seconds?

By the way, when you're talking about unresponsiveness, you're talking about order execution lag, or other?

Thanks
Raphael

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May 01, 2013, 02:15:11 PM
 #1087

Hello,

This is a great idea, and it never came up like this. The way you propose it is actually lot more easy to implement. Let me keep it on the list, I'll try to add that soon Smiley

Raphael

Hmmm, what about the FOK order Raphael?

Oh sorry to have skip that part.

If I understand, it applies to market order right? Either fill immediately, or cancel after xx seconds?

By the way, when you're talking about unresponsiveness, you're talking about order execution lag, or other?

Thanks
Raphael

Yes, it's basically "fill my order at the price the system is telling me now or cancel it immediately". (Quite often you won't have enough time to do a limit order and input the price point)

I am not sure if the unresponsiveness has more to do with order execution lag or order-list refreshing lag,  as both Bitfinex and exchanges seemed to be under heavy load, so even if I saw an order with a desirable price, when it got executed it's some other completely unpredictable random prices. Yes, it should have been an old topic actually.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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May 01, 2013, 02:35:50 PM
 #1088

I forgot to mention that Bitfinex sometimes will show order with completely out of place price in the order list, like this, notice the BSTP ask order at the bottom of the ask list:



https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
unclescrooge
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May 01, 2013, 02:44:55 PM
 #1089

I forgot to mention that Bitfinex sometimes will show order with completely out of place price in the order list, like this, notice the BSTP ask order at the bottom of the ask list:




Ok, thanks for clearing to FOK order type. Good idea too Smiley

About these orders: When you place an order with Bitstamp API, you can only place limit order. So to make it like a market order you set a price way out of market range. The problem is that bitstamp will place this order in the orderbook and show it to you.

I tried to add a way to ignore these orders (because we don't want BFX to try fill these order as we will lose any way), but it's tricky and sometimes doesn't work. I'll see if I can tune the filter.

Raphael

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May 01, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
 #1090

I forgot to mention that Bitfinex sometimes will show order with completely out of place price in the order list, like this, notice the BSTP ask order at the bottom of the ask list:




Ok, thanks for clearing to FOK order type. Good idea too Smiley

About these orders: When you place an order with Bitstamp API, you can only place limit order. So to make it like a market order you set a price way out of market range. The problem is that bitstamp will place this order in the orderbook and show it to you.

I tried to add a way to ignore these orders (because we don't want BFX to try fill these order as we will lose any way), but it's tricky and sometimes doesn't work. I'll see if I can tune the filter.

Raphael

Incredible....so that's what's with the system of the "second largest and best exchange"?

And thanks for the work and response, Raphael.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
unclescrooge
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May 01, 2013, 03:35:09 PM
 #1091

No it actually makes sense. After all this is a limit order that you see, during the small laps of time before it is executed. Of course when you don't know and BFX try to execute against these orders and you lose 10/20 usd per bitcoins you are less happy, but hey, that's not hard to overcome.

They are very good actually, i's a pleasure to work with them Smiley

Best regards
Raphael

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May 01, 2013, 03:46:11 PM
 #1092

No it actually makes sense. After all this is a limit order that you see, during the small laps of time before it is executed. Of course when you don't know and BFX try to execute against these orders and you lose 10/20 usd per bitcoins you are less happy, but hey, that's not hard to overcome.

They are very good actually, i's a pleasure to work with them Smiley

Best regards
Raphael

Don't worry, I didn't lose any money because of this. Smiley

I just can't believe it's the best they can do.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
GraphicImpulse
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May 01, 2013, 07:00:47 PM
 #1093

WOW.

Holding from a buy my position from $142 was just completely forced liquidated at $110, no notice/email/anything whatsoever and the required margin was nowhere near what I had available. I still had more than enough to cover in the account, I even still have .6 BTC after forced liquidation of entire position Then it in turn sold my BTC's @ 108. This is absolute insanity. Loans were to expire in about 1 month. I have high fortitude and would have kept holding. Just lost more than 2 Bitcoins because of this. Was so excited about Bitfinex since the error pages and other errors went away Sad

This is SERIOUSLY not cool. Can I get any type of aid please?


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May 01, 2013, 07:12:27 PM
 #1094

WOW.

Holding from a buy my position from $142 was just completely forced liquidated at $110, no notice/email/anything whatsoever and the required margin was nowhere near what I had available. I still had more than enough to cover in the account, I even still have .6 BTC after forced liquidation of entire position Then it in turn sold my BTC's @ 108. This is absolute insanity.

This is SERIOUSLY not cool. Can I get some help please?

I had the same problem - so, I now use the exchange tab ONLY.

Another glitch in the system:  I had an order cancelled for insufficient margin (on the Exchange tab).
I didn't know I had to have a margin/reserve to sell on the Exchange tab.



Here - from history (can't spend my own money)..

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May 01, 2013, 07:30:13 PM
 #1095

Lending BTC was broken, but looks to be fixed again.

Why does the lending matching break - right when I want to lend?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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May 01, 2013, 07:35:50 PM
 #1096

So the lending malfunctioned and caused my entire position to close immediately (loan open for another month) at basically the absolute worst time. Great.
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May 01, 2013, 07:36:45 PM
 #1097

WOW.

Holding from a buy my position from $142 was just completely forced liquidated at $110, no notice/email/anything whatsoever and the required margin was nowhere near what I had available. I still had more than enough to cover in the account, I even still have .6 BTC after forced liquidation of entire position Then it in turn sold my BTC's @ 108. This is absolute insanity. Loans were to expire in about 1 month. I have high fortitude and would have kept holding. Just lost more than 2 Bitcoins because of this. Was so excited about Bitfinex since the error pages and other errors went away Sad

This is SERIOUSLY not cool. Can I get any type of aid please?


Username: graphicimpulse


I'm pretty sure that's intentional, to help make sure you have coins left over and that the account is not in default once you're force liquidated. A last price of $110, as is evident by your example, does not mean your position can be closed at $110. Yours was closed at $108. If BFX waited to force-liquidate until there'd truly be nothing left (going solely by Last price), the slippage would cause a default, which either BFX or the lender, or the new third-party insurance provider (unsure if implemented now or not) would have to eat, assuming the leverage trader does not pay the default balance.

I'm not completely sure, and I don't use the leveraged trade options, so have no idea if that's explained somewhere or not. Fwiw.

ETA from FAQ:
"After you've logged in, you can immediately see your real-time account Net Value (total assets) and Maintenance (minimum net value). When your Net Value falls below twice the amount of Maintenance, we will issue a margin call."

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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May 01, 2013, 07:38:45 PM
 #1098

No. In that case a margin call is issued. I received no notice, email or ANYTHING.

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May 01, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
 #1099

Holding from a buy my position from $142 was just completely forced liquidated at $110, no notice/email/anything whatsoever and the required margin was nowhere near what I had available.


a move down of more than 20%.
Are you sure you really had enough additional margin in your trading account?
And more specifically: did you care not to fund your margin with BTC in a situation where the market moves down? Since the value loss of the BTC will additionally reduce the value of your margin.

Quote
I still had more than enough to cover in the account, I even still have .6 BTC after forced liquidation of entire position. Then it in turn sold my BTC's @ 108.
...another thing to be aware of. When the system detects that your position should be force liquidated, it issues a market order. Due to execution lag this market order will be filled by some price hopefully not too far off. But basically this is just random, and it can be very far off when the market moves quickyl; this is probably the greatest fundamental risk of the business.

That being said -- I'd recommend to look at your order history and check the numbers; if you still think the engine got some calculations wrong, you should contact the Bitfinex support.
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May 01, 2013, 07:55:19 PM
 #1100

In this case, through 2.5:1 I was down less than 45% of my tradeable margin, not 80% where it liquidated at.
This should not have been closed.

Let's do the numbers.

You're trading with 1:2.5 leverage. That means, to each piece of your margin, 2.5 additional parts of borrowed money are added.
Thus, the value in your account covers 1/(1+2.5) = 28.5%.

As soon as the accumulated losses have eaten up that part, your position is effectively only backed by borrowed money, which can't be tolerated.
Thus it needs to be force liquidated.

Now, in the concrete case, the move was from 142 down to 110, which is a loss of 32 / 142 = 22.5%
This comes pretty close to eating up 80% of your own money used to back that position
(please recall, your own money covered only 28.5% of the original position's value)


And as said, if in addition you used BTC as part of your margin, this situation happens even sooner, due to the decline in BTC value
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