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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134541 times)
unclescrooge
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April 24, 2013, 11:00:37 AM
 #961

Hi Somevan,

Since you are buying and selling the same quantities of BTC, your profit is really taken in USD.

What could be possible would be to add a pair USDBTC, where to go long on BTC you would short USDBTC. In this case you could your profit in BTC. However this is not on our dev list yet.

I understand the process is quite annoying, if anyone has some ideas to automate that (knowing what happens "behind the wheels"), they are welcome.

Best regards
Raphael

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superbit
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April 24, 2013, 05:39:45 PM
 #962

Is there anyway to do an account transfer of USD without converting it to BTC, sending it to his bitfinex address then having him convert it back?

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
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Sukrim
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April 24, 2013, 05:44:25 PM
 #963

Probably via Bitstamp codes soon(tm).

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
unclescrooge
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April 24, 2013, 06:20:22 PM
 #964

Is there anyway to do an account transfer of USD without converting it to BTC, sending it to his bitfinex address then having him convert it back?

Hi,

Yes you can send me an email with the 2 account to credit (sending from the same address as the debited account), and I'll do that manually.

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team

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April 24, 2013, 07:21:07 PM
 #965

Considering the number of offers for lending and the minuscule amount of requests to borrow, has anybody actually succeeded in getting his RECENT offer borrowed?

Wait a day or two.  If that doesn't work, under-cut the market rate.  You can see the lent out money on Market Statistics.  Currently we're at 750,000 USD which is close to the record - and the 250% VIR reflects that.  If this amount falls to 400-500k then expect much lower interest rates (eg. 60-100%).

There are at least three strategies
1) lend out as much of your money as you can (eg. 80-90% of your money)
2) lend out some of your money at market rates, and some above (ex. allot 10% of your funds for crazy 1000%, another 10-20% for 300-500%, etc)
3) go for the high rate loans

I used to be a big fan of lending out almost all of your money. But if people start replacing their high rate loans with low rate ones AND can do this while maintaining their position (a relatively new feature) then you are more likely to get stuck with low-rate loans for a long time.  So now I'm not sure what approach is best.

Don't day trade.
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April 24, 2013, 07:28:41 PM
 #966

Considering the number of offers for lending and the minuscule amount of requests to borrow, has anybody actually succeeded in getting his RECENT offer borrowed?

Wait a day or two.  If that doesn't work, under-cut the market rate.  You can see the lent out money on Market Statistics.  Currently we're at 750,000 USD which is close to the record - and the 250% VIR reflects that.  If this amount falls to 400-500k then expect much lower interest rates (eg. 60-100%).

There are at least three strategies
1) lend out as much of your money as you can (eg. 80-90% of your money)
2) lend out some of your money at market rates, and some above (ex. allot 10% of your funds for crazy 1000%, another 10-20% for 300-500%, etc)
3) go for the high rate loans

I used to be a big fan of lending out almost all of your money. But if people start replacing their high rate loans with low rate ones AND can do this while maintaining their position (a relatively new feature) then you are more likely to get stuck with low-rate loans for a long time.  So now I'm not sure what approach is best.

I am actually planning on publishing some statistics soon showing how long a loan stayed out at every interest rate going from 200% up to 1000% in 50% increments.  Then you can see if it is better going for a 900% rate that is on and off, a low rate that stays on, or somewhere in the middle.  I'll get it all to pull automatically into a nice spreadsheet then make the info public with donations welcome of course.

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
Sukrim
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April 24, 2013, 07:36:02 PM
 #967

I'm actually seeing a much higher churn rate with my high rate loans recently (again: Is interest really calculated atomically by the hour, so a 61 minute loan pays 2 hours of interest?)... Still I dare to claim that I'm responsible for quite a few % on the current VIR rate, you can thank me later! Smiley

My strategy lately is to look for the lower serious loan offers (4digit+) and then set auto-lend somewhere around these. Yes, it can take a little time until a position is taken - but compared to VIR an hour or 5 of waiting still don't matter that much if I can get a loan out for just a handful of hours.

If you're really desperate, just lend out at VIR, I've seen 2-3 times today alone all VIR loans used up. Also make sure to have serious offer amounts up, it seems to me as if it is more likely to lend out a 3000USD offer at 850% than a 10 USD offer at 150%...

Edit: superbit, that would be really great, please also publish the code on how to pull the data to the spreadsheet! Smiley

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
superbit
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April 24, 2013, 07:40:58 PM
 #968


Edit: superbit, that would be really great, please also publish the code on how to pull the data to the spreadsheet! Smiley

If by code you mean a spreadsheet where I manually copy and paste the history data into a raw data tab I can do that.  Would love to have it pull auto, but I am far from a programmer.

Still pretty easy, cut and paste it and I have formulas set to do all the rest.

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
oakpacific
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April 25, 2013, 03:03:56 AM
 #969

I can't for the hell of my life access Bitfinex right now.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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April 25, 2013, 03:51:23 AM
 #970

"Funds currently lent"
"Borrowed funds used in a margin position"

So i issued loans and they are currently under "funds currently lent"
Do i receive interests at the (% per 365 days) when it is only under funds currently lent, or does the $ have to be included in a margin position?

Basically I'm trying to ask is there a difference in return if someone never takes a position and just keeps the loan under funds currently lent then cancels the loan?

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April 25, 2013, 04:53:43 AM
 #971

"Funds currently lent"
"Borrowed funds used in a margin position"

So i issued loans and they are currently under "funds currently lent"
Do i receive interests at the (% per 365 days) when it is only under funds currently lent, or does the $ have to be included in a margin position?

Basically I'm trying to ask is there a difference in return if someone never takes a position and just keeps the loan under funds currently lent then cancels the loan?


I do agree that it's a bit confusing. "Borrowed funds used in a margin position" means money YOU have borrowed. Your money is LENT if it's under "Funds currently lent".

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April 25, 2013, 05:56:32 AM
 #972

"Funds currently lent"
"Borrowed funds used in a margin position"

So i issued loans and they are currently under "funds currently lent"
Do i receive interests at the (% per 365 days) when it is only under funds currently lent, or does the $ have to be included in a margin position?

Basically I'm trying to ask is there a difference in return if someone never takes a position and just keeps the loan under funds currently lent then cancels the loan?


I do agree that it's a bit confusing. "Borrowed funds used in a margin position" means money YOU have borrowed. Your money is LENT if it's under "Funds currently lent".

Thanks for the reply, ya i realized my mistake.

I have a new question though if you could help me ^^

When its under "funds currently lent", I have one loan at 250%, i make 250% per year on that $ regardless of whether they purchase something or not? Or is it just sitting in his unused borrowed and i don't receive a return?
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April 25, 2013, 06:29:16 AM
 #973

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

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wamatt
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April 25, 2013, 07:23:45 AM
 #974

Hey Raphael

Quick question. Under the Lending tab



Lets say have some unused borrowed funds. What happens if I just go on holiday for a week and forget to "unborrow them". Are those funds locked up for the lender? Do I incur any penalty for not actively using them?

That doesn't seem fair if that's the the case. Undecided

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April 25, 2013, 07:44:27 AM
 #975

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I would love to know too. I heard you can swap loans out for better ones. But I haven't figure out how to do that yet...
Sukrim
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April 25, 2013, 08:41:32 AM
 #976

That doesn't seem fair if that's the the case. Undecided
Lenders will get interest, no matter if you actually use the money or not. On the other hand they cannot use the money either, so it would be even more unfair if you could lock up money of a lender and not even pay interest, as it is not in the power of the lender to force you to actually trade.

If you really fear that you might forget that you pay about 1% a day for loans, maybe you should make sure that this doesn't happen - stick a big reminder on the toilet door for example.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
wamatt
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April 25, 2013, 08:44:02 AM
 #977

That doesn't seem fair if that's the the case. Undecided
Lenders will get interest, no matter if you actually use the money or not. On the other hand they cannot use the money either, so it would be even more unfair if you could lock up money of a lender and not even pay interest, as it is not in the power of the lender to force you to actually trade.

If you really fear that you might forget that you pay about 1% a day for loans, maybe you should make sure that this doesn't happen - stick a big reminder on the toilet door for example.

Oh really.. I think I remember holding a few loans without any active positions and both my swap and P/L was $0.0. So how is that possible? Essentially I was locking up loans, but not being charged...
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April 25, 2013, 09:10:41 AM
 #978

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I've assumed that that would be the case, but apparently not! I had loans at various rates, with the lowest rates being the first ones I took out. When I closed a fraction of my trading positions later, it closed the more favourable loans as well (a 50% loan, 30 days), leaving the rest of the position with the more unfavourable loans (200%+ loans)! In my opinion this should not happen and the funds should remain available to me, not closed out. Seems like it closes loans in a FIFO fashion, thats why I lost the older, more favourable loans.
myself
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April 25, 2013, 09:23:34 AM
 #979

Oh really.. I think I remember holding a few loans without any active positions and both my swap and P/L was $0.0. So how is that possible? Essentially I was locking up loans, but not being charged...
ofc the P/L is 0 if you dont have a position but if you took a loan you are still charged check your history

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
myself
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April 25, 2013, 09:26:30 AM
 #980

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I've assumed that that would be the case, but apparently not! I had loans at various rates, with the lowest rates being the first ones I took out. When I closed a fraction of my trading positions later, it closed the more favourable loans as well (a 50% loan, 30 days), leaving the rest of the position with the more unfavourable loans (200%+ loans)! In my opinion this should not happen and the funds should remain available to me, not closed out. Seems like it closes loans in a FIFO fashion, thats why I lost the older, more favourable loans.
go to https://bitfinex.com/credit then Borrowed funds used in a margin position and click on  the loan you want to close

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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