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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134396 times)
yogi
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May 03, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
 #1141

Am I doing this wrong? I want to loan out my BTC. Let's say I put in a loan offer for 5 BTC at VIR for 2 days. I click Lend, and it shows up in "Unfilled credit demand/offers". After a while I get an email saying my Offer #blahblah has been taken.

Looks like the BTC never left my wallet, it's still there, it's not in unfilled credit, and I never collected any interest on it.

It could be that your btc was only lent out for a very short period of time.

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Sukrim
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May 03, 2013, 10:57:20 PM
 #1142

Also interest is credited daily, next time in about an hour from this post.

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acorn
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May 04, 2013, 01:52:56 AM
 #1143

Am I doing this wrong? I want to loan out my BTC. Let's say I put in a loan offer for 5 BTC at VIR for 2 days. I click Lend, and it shows up in "Unfilled credit demand/offers". After a while I get an email saying my Offer #blahblah has been taken.

Looks like the BTC never left my wallet, it's still there, it's not in unfilled credit, and I never collected any interest on it.

It could be that your btc was only lent out for a very short period of time.

Ahah, yes I guess that might do it. Thanks!

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unclescrooge
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May 04, 2013, 02:03:40 PM
 #1144

Hello everyone!

Acorn, yes, interests are credited every night around 00:00 GMT, even if a loan is paid back earlier.

Your deposit balance always includes current lent funds, that's why you won't see it change unless when you receive interests.

To everyone,

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions
Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team

capoeira
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May 04, 2013, 11:44:13 PM
 #1145

1) If I set a limit order as a take profit and a stop order as stop loss. If one of them triggers will the other be canceled automaticly?

Yes thats a problem I do encounter frequently. Unfortunately there is no way to link those orders together. Thus this approach could be potentially dangerous, leaving you e.g. with a heavily loosing short position in case bothe orders do trigger accidentally.

But to understand why it is not simple to link orders together, consider that it is very common to break down your orders into multiple parts, e.g. multiple trailing stops with different distances, or splitting a stop loss in two parts, sitting behind two existing bid walls, allowing to mitigate the risk. Given such possibilities, how would the system be able to tell which profit taking order belongs to which stop order? How would you show in the GUI which order is linked to which other order?



creating a "one cancels the other order"



@Bitfinex

I'm sure someone allready asked this question, but I don't know how to find the answer: Is there a way to show the time when a loan expires? I mean how do I know when exactly 1 day is over?

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May 05, 2013, 01:19:41 PM
 #1146


Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions


Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Spaceman_Spiff
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May 05, 2013, 02:34:23 PM
 #1147

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?
myself
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chaos is fun...…damental :)


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May 05, 2013, 03:24:28 PM
 #1148

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?
the question is silly since bitstamp and mtgox dont allow anyone to trade on credit

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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May 05, 2013, 03:35:04 PM
 #1149

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?
the question is silly since bitstamp and mtgox dont allow anyone to trade on credit

Seems like a reasonable question to me. Bitfinex has a bank account. What portion of the funds are kept in that bank account, vs on the exchanges? If MtGox were to end up insolvent, how much could Bitfinex potentially lose?

cascadebot: A simple (but effective) lending bot for Bitfinex
unclescrooge
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May 05, 2013, 03:52:46 PM
 #1150


Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions


Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.


Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

Hi Spcamen,

We keep a part on our bank account, and most of the funds on MtGox and Bitstamp.

The proportion depends on the volume we have on the different exchanges and internally. As our internal volume grow we are able to keep more and more on our bank account (and cold wallet for bitcoins). Currently it's something like 30% to us, and the rest shared on the two others.

Hope this answers the question, sorry it took so long I missed it somehow.

Remember remember the 5th of November
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May 05, 2013, 05:21:20 PM
 #1151

I also have a question! How does one take advantage of arbitrage between Gox and Stamp?

BTC:1AiCRMxgf1ptVQwx6hDuKMu4f7F27QmJC2
capoeira
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May 05, 2013, 05:24:31 PM
 #1152


Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions


Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.




I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

myself
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chaos is fun...…damental :)


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May 05, 2013, 07:15:22 PM
 #1153


Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions


Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.




I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position
hi, i think this URL is relevant https://community.bitfinex.com/showwiki.php?title=Margin+Call

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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May 06, 2013, 12:51:41 AM
 #1154

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

Hi Spcamen,

We keep a part on our bank account, and most of the funds on MtGox and Bitstamp.

The proportion depends on the volume we have on the different exchanges and internally. As our internal volume grow we are able to keep more and more on our bank account (and cold wallet for bitcoins). Currently it's something like 30% to us, and the rest shared on the two others.

Hope this answers the question, sorry it took so long I missed it somehow.

Ok, thanks for the reply
unclescrooge
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May 06, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
 #1155


Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions


Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.




I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

Hello,

It is the one I posted, because margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price is always lower than your margin balance. You missed the 10% Smiley

Bets regards
Raphael

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May 06, 2013, 10:23:57 AM
 #1156


Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions


Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.




I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

Hello,

It is the one I posted, because margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price is always lower than your margin balance. You missed the 10% Smiley

Bets regards
Raphael


well , than it's actualy the same formula I posted :-)

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May 06, 2013, 10:25:26 AM
 #1157



well , than it's actualy the same formula I posted :-)

Yes indeed Undecided

Bye
Raphael

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May 06, 2013, 08:30:43 PM
 #1158

I posted this on community announcements (bitfinex site) as well:



The more that I think about this, the more I feel that the insurance plan this is a horrible move for the investor. If you have a VIR of 100% APR - then the investor is expecting a 5% annual probability of a 100% wipe-out event or less (or obviously a greater probability of a smaller loss -- but the same math still applies - the summation of losses will be 5% or less over the year).

        If they are only expecting a 5% chance of a 100% wipe-out, they are better off investing the $50,000 in the lending market. After one year that gives them 5% chance of 0 money - 95% chance of 200% money. By contrast their insurance has a return of 5% chance of 0 money, at 95% chance of 105% money (or maybe as high as 110% if they can invest the money somewhere else while it is a "reserve").

        The investor should be asking for something like 50-90% of the interest in exchange for insuring.

        Am I missing something?

Ok in practice, the APR varies from 50% to 300% - and  you aren't loaning out 100% of the time, but the logic still applies.  Whether the APR is 50% or 300% - you are still better off lending than insuring.

Don't day trade.
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May 06, 2013, 10:35:23 PM
 #1159

Providing insurance funds only pays off if:

* there is FAR more demand for insured positions than uninsured positions, meaning your funds will actually be used all/most of the time.
* there are little/no "black swan" events that eat away your profits (even smaller cuts, as soon as they are above x% might eat a year's worth of profits).
* the lending market is oversaturated like right now at the moment (I have horrible return rates in the USD market atm, started gambling with a few margin positions to earn and learn a bit about the system, earned some, lost some, learned a lot!) and actually offering to lend the money won't help, as it won't be taken - the catch however is that if the average rate is at 100% you'd even make a profit compared to providing insurance even if you just offer at 10%...
* you have no idea about the lending market, don't want to learn or know anything about it and are only knowledgeable in the external risks that might influence Bitfinex, so you could assess this better from the outside somehow.
* you get additional benefits that are not mentioned here so far (shares in Bitfinex, free trades...?!).

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
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May 07, 2013, 08:47:13 AM
 #1160

I posted this on community announcements (bitfinex site) as well:



The more that I think about this, the more I feel that the insurance plan this is a horrible move for the investor. If you have a VIR of 100% APR - then the investor is expecting a 5% annual probability of a 100% wipe-out event or less (or obviously a greater probability of a smaller loss -- but the same math still applies - the summation of losses will be 5% or less over the year).

        If they are only expecting a 5% chance of a 100% wipe-out, they are better off investing the $50,000 in the lending market. After one year that gives them 5% chance of 0 money - 95% chance of 200% money. By contrast their insurance has a return of 5% chance of 0 money, at 95% chance of 105% money (or maybe as high as 110% if they can invest the money somewhere else while it is a "reserve").

        The investor should be asking for something like 50-90% of the interest in exchange for insuring.

        Am I missing something?

Ok in practice, the APR varies from 50% to 300% - and  you aren't loaning out 100% of the time, but the logic still applies.  Whether the APR is 50% or 300% - you are still better off lending than insuring.

 “If you are in a poker game and after 20 minutes, you don’t know who the patsy is, then you are the patsy.”
  Warren Buffett

Yes sir, you are missing something.
Here's the catch: In case of a black swan event the losses might not be the full amount, unless Bitcoin go to zero.
When at the beginning of April the price went from 266 to 50 in 2 days  the total losses were only 10% of the total amount.
So the insurer estimate the chances bitcoin will survive (and not of a black swan event) to be higher than 95%.

I hope this helps

;-)

Giancarlo
Customers Relations
Bitfinex Group



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