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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134572 times)
simonk83
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April 15, 2013, 12:29:54 AM
 #821

Hi again,

So, today's interest is slightly lower than it ought to be (not by half like last time though Cheesy).    Yesterday I had the exact same three loans open, and received $118 in interest.   Today I had the same three loans open (ie, they weren't closed), plus I also had some BTC loaned out for about 15 hours or so.   Somehow today's interest is $113, and I didn't appear to get any BTC interest at all.

So yes, it's only $5 difference, but my point is that in this case there shouldn't be any difference at all (or if there is, it should be in my favour due to the BTC loans).

Again, just a heads up so you can take a look at the calculations and get them sorted out.    I know you guys are under pressure lately, but if people don't get paid the expected amount then that's a pretty major thing that'll cause loss in confidence in the site and eventually people will start to move away.

Let me know if you need any more info to help out Smiley
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April 15, 2013, 12:43:58 AM
 #822

Have you seen this?

http://bitbet.us/bet/362/bitfinex-insolvent-by-end-of-april/
 
Will Bifinex be insolvent by the end of the month. 

Weighted No: 153`203
Weighted Yes: 281`621

I guess I should pull my coins out quick  Cheesy


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April 15, 2013, 03:03:40 AM
 #823

Will Bifinex be insolvent by the end of the month. 

Weighted No: 153`203
Weighted Yes: 281`621

Cool... Bitfinex starts to be percieved as relevant  Wink
drawingthesun
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April 15, 2013, 04:31:07 AM
 #824

Have you seen this?

http://bitbet.us/bet/362/bitfinex-insolvent-by-end-of-april/
 
Will Bifinex be insolvent by the end of the month.  

Weighted No: 153`203
Weighted Yes: 281`621

I guess I should pull my coins out quick  Cheesy



That's a little scary.

I hope Bitfinex is ok, the way I see it if the traders are good they are taking money from the exchanges (Gox) and thus it makes sense that it can work, however the crash did lose money for the company (Raph said he covered the lenders with the investors money) However what we do not know is the extent of the damage. They haven't really said much about that.

And I still have outstanding loans at 1500% even though apparently the lenders can swap them out for cheaper ones. If so why aren't the traders using my money closing and getting a loan 4 times cheaper?

Anyway I am confident that Bitfinex will not close down, The crash really exposed a lot of people though. But lets be honest we were all being greedy. I was making at the peak $200 a day from interest gained! You can't expect a risk free investment that can turn $10,000 into $200 a day. So I am still grateful for Bitfinex and the opportunity they have given us.
myself
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April 15, 2013, 04:46:47 AM
 #825


That's a little scary.

Quote
CONFIRMED BETS: 5.33 BTC

only 5.33  Embarrassed


Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 15, 2013, 04:57:58 AM
 #826


That's a little scary.

Quote
CONFIRMED BETS: 5.33 BTC

only 5.33  Embarrassed



What is the return on 1 Bitcoin if Bitfinex does NOT close by the end of April?
myself
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April 15, 2013, 06:24:45 AM
 #827


That's a little scary.

Quote
CONFIRMED BETS: 5.33 BTC

only 5.33  Embarrassed



What is the return on 1 Bitcoin if Bitfinex does NOT close by the end of April?
total sum of yes divided for total no less fees, not much money to make but hey something is something  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 15, 2013, 06:50:13 AM
 #828

hi, i am trying to trade on margin and am not sure when i will be margin called. i asked support and they sent me this explanation which reads like greek to me

Yes we recently made some change. You will get a margin call if your net value, that is, your trading balance converted in USD + your unrealized loss + your unrealized swap in less than your margin requirements (5%) * the base price of your position * the size of your position.

can someone please explain how margin calls work and what percentages and stuff i need?
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April 15, 2013, 07:08:56 AM
 #829

hi, i am trying to trade on margin and am not sure when i will be margin called. i asked support and they sent me this explanation which reads like greek to me

Yes we recently made some change. You will get a margin call if your net value, that is, your trading balance converted in USD + your unrealized loss + your unrealized swap in less than your margin requirements (5%) * the base price of your position * the size of your position.

can someone please explain how margin calls work and what percentages and stuff i need?
imo this can help you https://community.bitfinex.com/showwiki.php?title=Margin+Call  Grin

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
oakpacific
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April 15, 2013, 07:15:27 AM
 #830

Have you seen this?

http://bitbet.us/bet/362/bitfinex-insolvent-by-end-of-april/
 
Will Bifinex be insolvent by the end of the month.  

Weighted No: 153`203
Weighted Yes: 281`621

I guess I should pull my coins out quick  Cheesy



That's a little scary.

I hope Bitfinex is ok, the way I see it if the traders are good they are taking money from the exchanges (Gox) and thus it makes sense that it can work, however the crash did lose money for the company (Raph said he covered the lenders with the investors money) However what we do not know is the extent of the damage. They haven't really said much about that.

And I still have outstanding loans at 1500% even though apparently the lenders can swap them out for cheaper ones. If so why aren't the traders using my money closing and getting a loan 4 times cheaper?

Anyway I am confident that Bitfinex will not close down, The crash really exposed a lot of people though. But lets be honest we were all being greedy. I was making at the peak $200 a day from interest gained! You can't expect a risk free investment that can turn $10,000 into $200 a day. So I am still grateful for Bitfinex and the opportunity they have given us.

Guess someone is trying to hedge.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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April 15, 2013, 09:23:39 AM
 #831

...or troll! Wink

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
unclescrooge
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April 15, 2013, 09:32:03 AM
 #832

Hello everyone,

It's not easy to find out who placed this bet, and no, (s)he's not trying to hedge. It's the same person that doesn't get that Bitfinex doesn't work like Bitcoinica.

Those that understand our model, that see that we do not hedge positions one against each other but back them up with lenders funds should'nt be too worried.

The others can withdraw their money if they are not comfortable.

We won't be insolvent by the end of the month nor the end of the year.

Let me know if you have any questions
Raphael
Bitfinex team

simonk83
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April 15, 2013, 09:41:11 AM
 #833

Quick question about how the Maximum lending time (days) column works in Lending.

So I have a loan offering open at a certain percentage for 15 days.   At the time, I was the only loan open at that percentage.   Someone else has just put up a loan for the same percentage, but for 2 days.    That seems to have overridden my offer, and the column now shows the maximum days for that percentage to be 2 days.   This happens all the time, and is quite confusing.   I'm assuming potential lendees see the same information, which gives a misleading take on things. To them, they'd think that the Max they can borrow is 2 days, when really they could take a 15 day loan.

Not sure how to tweak this really.   Should you always show the actual Maximum amount of days (so in this case it'd be 15 days, rather than 2), which makes more sense, or should you just show two rows for that percentage, eg:

15 days    10%   40BTC   1
2 days      10%   20BTC   1

What does everyone else think?

I also agree with others that the minimum interest calculation time should be 1 hour (rather than calculating by the minute, but by all means implement that if it's possible).   Too often people will take a loan out for 5 minutes then cancel it.  That's just annoying Smiley   If they were to be charged an hours interest I suspect they'd think more carefully before clicking the button Cheesy

Bump Wink
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April 15, 2013, 09:41:55 AM
 #834

Hello everyone,

It's not easy to find out who placed this bet, and no, (s)he's not trying to hedge. It's the same person that doesn't get that Bitfinex doesn't work like Bitcoinica.

Those that understand our model, that see that we do not hedge positions one against each other but back them up with lenders funds should'nt be too worried.

The others can withdraw their money if they are not comfortable.

We won't be insolvent by the end of the month nor the end of the year.

Let me know if you have any questions
Raphael
Bitfinex team

Smiley Good work anyway Raphael, btw when is the new insured loan feature popping up? I think 30% is not a bad price to pay for the security of the loans. Will 30% be enough to help you guys secure everything though?

Many thanks
oakpacific
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April 15, 2013, 09:45:34 AM
 #835

Hello everyone,

It's not easy to find out who placed this bet, and no, (s)he's not trying to hedge. It's the same person that doesn't get that Bitfinex doesn't work like Bitcoinica.

Those that understand our model, that see that we do not hedge positions one against each other but back them up with lenders funds should'nt be too worried.

The others can withdraw their money if they are not comfortable.

We won't be insolvent by the end of the month nor the end of the year.

Let me know if you have any questions
Raphael
Bitfinex team

Hmmm...so Bitcoinica was actually a bucket shop? I didn't know that.

The same person... I have got a candidate.. Roll Eyes

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
unclescrooge
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April 15, 2013, 10:02:14 AM
 #836

Quick question about how the Maximum lending time (days) column works in Lending.

So I have a loan offering open at a certain percentage for 15 days.   At the time, I was the only loan open at that percentage.   Someone else has just put up a loan for the same percentage, but for 2 days.    That seems to have overridden my offer, and the column now shows the maximum days for that percentage to be 2 days.   This happens all the time, and is quite confusing.   I'm assuming potential lendees see the same information, which gives a misleading take on things. To them, they'd think that the Max they can borrow is 2 days, when really they could take a 15 day loan.

Not sure how to tweak this really.   Should you always show the actual Maximum amount of days (so in this case it'd be 15 days, rather than 2), which makes more sense, or should you just show two rows for that percentage, eg:

15 days    10%   40BTC   1
2 days      10%   20BTC   1

What does everyone else think?

I also agree with others that the minimum interest calculation time should be 1 hour (rather than calculating by the minute, but by all means implement that if it's possible).   Too often people will take a loan out for 5 minutes then cancel it.  That's just annoying Smiley   If they were to be charged an hours interest I suspect they'd think more carefully before clicking the button Cheesy

Bump Wink

Hello Simon,

Yes the display maximum time is indicative only. However if borrowers wants more and your offer has more than what is displayed, it will be taken.

Yeah I'm thinking about a way to charge more accurately charge interests, that won't be changed immediately though.


Hello everyone,

It's not easy to find out who placed this bet, and no, (s)he's not trying to hedge. It's the same person that doesn't get that Bitfinex doesn't work like Bitcoinica.

Those that understand our model, that see that we do not hedge positions one against each other but back them up with lenders funds should'nt be too worried.

The others can withdraw their money if they are not comfortable.

We won't be insolvent by the end of the month nor the end of the year.

Let me know if you have any questions
Raphael
Bitfinex team

Smiley Good work anyway Raphael, btw when is the new insured loan feature popping up? I think 30% is not a bad price to pay for the security of the loans. Will 30% be enough to help you guys secure everything though?

Many thanks

When we'll be able to. We really cannot give you an ETA on this. We will discuss it with all associates at the end of this week.



Hmmm...so Bitcoinica was actually a bucket shop? I didn't know that.

The same person... I have got a candidate.. Roll Eyes

Yep, they hedged positions against one each other. So as soon as the market takes a trend (for example UP), and there is far more long than short, bad things happen.

We on the other hand, backup positions only by lenders funds. So this kind of problem cannot happen.

Actually because most of our trades happens on Mtgox, we could theoretically being short on funds even though there is enough lenders funds on our bank account/wallet. That's why we implemented a check, and if there is less than funds necessary to close all the positions of one side + a percentage of our total funds, then you cannot open or increase a position even if there is enough offers available. That's annoying for traders, but prevent us from running in the situation where we run out of funds. That's what happen sometimes with USD, since most of our users are long and/or want to buy bitcoins.

Bye
Raphael
Bitfinex team

myself
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April 15, 2013, 10:20:30 AM
 #837

Hmmm...so Bitcoinica was actually a bucket shop? I didn't know that.

The same person... I have got a candidate.. Roll Eyes
you can read this http://www.fxcm.co.uk/execution-types.jsp like a example on what type of scenario the house can benefits from trader loses ofc that's not a bucket shop but is just so ppl get more knowledge

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 15, 2013, 10:35:23 AM
 #838

Small notice:

Due to the volume of Wire deposit we have, we have updated our bank account detail. This is still a temporary bank account (until we have our own), but that have the authorization to handle more volume.

If you sent your wire to our previous bank account, don't worry, we will still receive the funds and credit your balance. This bank account is still open and working.

Cheers
Raphael

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April 15, 2013, 10:36:29 AM
 #839

Thanks Raph.  I sent you an email regarding the interest issue Wink
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April 15, 2013, 04:22:11 PM
 #840

Hi again,

So, today's interest is slightly lower than it ought to be (not by half like last time though Cheesy).    Yesterday I had the exact same three loans open, and received $118 in interest.   Today I had the same three loans open (ie, they weren't closed), plus I also had some BTC loaned out for about 15 hours or so.   Somehow today's interest is $113, and I didn't appear to get any BTC interest at all.

So yes, it's only $5 difference, but my point is that in this case there shouldn't be any difference at all (or if there is, it should be in my favour due to the BTC loans).

Again, just a heads up so you can take a look at the calculations and get them sorted out.    I know you guys are under pressure lately, but if people don't get paid the expected amount then that's a pretty major thing that'll cause loss in confidence in the site and eventually people will start to move away.

Let me know if you need any more info to help out Smiley

Yeah, I got a tiny amount less interest today than yesterday despite having the same loans out.  I did no margin-trading yesterday and took out no laons myself, so it's pretty easy to see that the calculation is wrong.

Here, again are my loans:

USD    29.19032581    1798.0%    12 months    No    Renew loan   Notify
USD    2110.08319976    1798.0%    12 months    No    Renew loan   Notify
USD    152.63    1798.0%    12 months    No    Renew loan   Notify
USD    3638.7240986    1798.0%    12 months    No    Renew loan   Notify
USD    2422.5448393    1798.0%    12 months    No    Renew loan   Notify

That's 8353.17 at 1798% per year.

8353.17*17.98/365 = 411.479
90% of that (Bitfinex takes 10%) should leave me with 370.331

Which is exactly what I got yesterday:

Interest Payment on wallet deposit    370.3316       8723.5152    14 Apr 01:11

But today, with those loans out all the time (and in fact another small one out for a short period of tiem as well - less than an hour I think so it likely got no interest):

Interest Payment on wallet deposit    354.9011       9147.4236    15 Apr 01:10

Now there's no way someone closed one of those then retook exactly same amount at same rate - not with much cheaper loans around.  Plus my offered rate isn't same anyway - so they couldn't do that even if they tried.

The answer is that the loans didn't calculate on one hour.  If you take the amount I should have got (370.33) and multiply it by 23/24 you get exactly the amount I actually received (354.9).  It's actually accurate to 4 dec places if you calculate it properly.

So there's still some issue with loans not being calculated very hour - and stiffing lenders.



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