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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134466 times)
superbit
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April 22, 2013, 05:27:43 PM
 #941

good questions!

Also, what happens if someone offers an insured loan at 4000% and it never fills.  Is now the investors money sitting there earning nothing and no one else can take out an insured loan because the funds are locked up even though the loan will likely never be accepted?

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
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April 22, 2013, 05:53:13 PM
 #942

I guess there should be an "insure if possible" option next to an "always insure" and "never insure" button when (auto-)lending.

"Always insure" would only open positions that could potentially be insured and reduce the open positions if there is not enough in the insurance fund.
"Never insure" would work just like right now.
"Insure if possible" would open positions and try to insure as many as possible of them, if the funds run out it would continue uninsured.

I still wonder about open positions too, with the 3 preferences however people could post as many open positions as they want and they would become available/visible depending on available insurance funds. You could for example open a 1000 USD 4000% "Always insure" offer that would be only visible then if there are actually 1000+ USD available in the fund.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
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superbit
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April 22, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
 #943

Yea, there is certainly a lot to consider.

I would think you are right that the 4000% loan then would only show if there were insurance funds available for it.  Otherwise bogus offers could crush the return the insurance investor is getting if they never are lent out.



https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
Ichthyo
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April 22, 2013, 06:44:18 PM
 #944

Now on to 2 mayor announcement:
  • Insurance on loans
  • New trading partnership

Starting from saturday the 4th of May at 00.00 GMT we will also offer to our customers the possibility to trade on Bitstamp.
We believe Bitstamp to currently be the best option on the market.
Those guys (Nejc and Damian) are doing a great job and growing rapidly, eating up big chunks of marketshare to MtGox .
With this move we hope to be able to add some liquidity to our orderbook and to prevent problems in case MtGox will have to shutdown its trading platform again.
(Knocking on wood).

Keep smiling

Cheesy Big smile  Cheesy
Actually I was anticipating / hoping that the collaboration would be with Bitstamp....

Anyway, these improvements to the server infrastructure, the insurance and the cross-exchange trading seem to be important steps ahead and just underpin again that Bitfinex people try to do things right and build something which is there to stay.
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April 22, 2013, 07:44:35 PM
 #945

The good news for lenders is that all this talk about insurance is increasing the VIR =)

And to think I thought we were heading down to 20-40%! 
It looks like some people think bitcoin is going to break out on the positive side from this recent stability.


Is it a 100% reserve?  Is it 50k of reserve to cover 50k in loans?  That is what it sounds like.

Don't day trade.
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April 22, 2013, 09:10:51 PM
 #946

Quick feature request that I'd really appreciate if possible.   Could we get an "always notify" toggle (even a global option in the user settings)?   That way the lending process would be 100% automated if preferred (autolend and auto notify).

Thanks!
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April 22, 2013, 10:18:20 PM
 #947

We should really have a central place for feature requests where users can vote, etc...

I think another GREAT one would be the option to lock your bank and BTC withdrawal settings.  You have the ability to change them but it would take 14 days and email notification would go out.  Of course email address would have to have same locked setting.

This is great added security in case your account is ever hacked.

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
urwhatuknow
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April 22, 2013, 11:17:38 PM
 #948

I guess there should be an "insure if possible" option next to an "always insure" and "never insure" button when (auto-)lending.

"Always insure" would only open positions that could potentially be insured and reduce the open positions if there is not enough in the insurance fund.
"Never insure" would work just like right now.
"Insure if possible" would open positions and try to insure as many as possible of them, if the funds run out it would continue uninsured.

I still wonder about open positions too, with the 3 preferences however people could post as many open positions as they want and they would become available/visible depending on available insurance funds. You could for example open a 1000 USD 4000% "Always insure" offer that would be only visible then if there are actually 1000+ USD available in the fund.

The 3 options will be:

1) No insurance
2) Insurance only (do not lend out if the insurance is not available)
3) Buy insurance if available, otherwise lend without insurance

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urwhatuknow
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April 22, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
 #949

good questions!

Also, what happens if someone offers an insured loan at 4000% and it never fills.  Is now the investors money sitting there earning nothing and no one else can take out an insured loan because the funds are locked up even though the loan will likely never be accepted?

The insurance applies only when the loan is filled, not just reserved.
If the position is not filled there is no risk for the lender.

Giancarlo
Customers Relations
Bitfinex Team

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urwhatuknow
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April 22, 2013, 11:28:37 PM
 #950

Would it be possible to also pledge (5 digit+) USD amounts for this "reserve fund" and also get 5% of fees for that?

I was wondering about doing this too, but is there any added benefit?  Since you are now taking the risk of the loans getting wiped out and you are getting a lower % then if you just had the money lent out yourself directly insured or uninsured.
My reasoning was that I don't have to care that much about making sure my loans are actually filled (in case there is more demand than supply for insured loans). Also people taking insured loans might look to have higher than average/VIR returns to make up for the difference a bit, so I guess there would also be a bit higher return than just 5% of VIR.

What I would still find interesting is how a lack swan event would be dealt with:

Example:
100k USD are right now at risk, the market takes a sudden 60% nose dive and trades are executed far too late --> 100k potential USD are turned to 40k real USD, a loss of 60k USD.
There were 20k insured loans, 50k in total in the "insurance fund" and 80k uninsured loans.

I would think that it works like this:
The lenders of the 20k insured loans get back 8k USD from Bitfinex + the remaining 12k USD from the insurance fund. The insurance fund now holds 38k USD and insured lenders are happy.
The lenders of the 80k uninsured loans get back 60% less from Bitfinex and 0 USD from the insurance fund --> 28k USD in total.

^^^ Is this example correct? Would Bitfinex still try to cover some funds out of good will or because it maybe was partly their fault too? Might insured loans instead be fully covered only from the insurance fund (50k --> 30k USD and the 80k lenders receive 40k USD instead of 28k USD)?

No, in case of black swan events only insured loans will be covered by the reserves.
Any loss originated by non insured positions will be pooled and the loss will be spread pro quota among all the non insured positions.
To give you a practical example the big drop from 266 to 50 originated losses of less than 10% of the total amount lent, thanks to Bitfinex efficiency.
Therefore each non insured lender would have lost about 20 days of interest at current rates, no big deal I would say.....
But if the price dropped much closer to 0 (instead of 50) the losses would have been surely much bigger.

I hope this helps

Giancarlo
Customers Relations
Bitfinex Team

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urwhatuknow
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April 22, 2013, 11:30:00 PM
 #951

The good news for lenders is that all this talk about insurance is increasing the VIR =)

And to think I thought we were heading down to 20-40%! 
It looks like some people think bitcoin is going to break out on the positive side from this recent stability.


Is it a 100% reserve?  Is it 50k of reserve to cover 50k in loans?  That is what it sounds like.

Yes, this is correct

Giancarlo
Investors Relations
Bitfinex Team

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Remember remember the 5th of November
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April 23, 2013, 04:46:06 AM
 #952

Considering the number of offers for lending and the minuscule amount of requests to borrow, has anybody actually succeeded in getting his RECENT offer borrowed?

BTC:1AiCRMxgf1ptVQwx6hDuKMu4f7F27QmJC2
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April 23, 2013, 04:49:57 AM
 #953

Considering the number of offers for lending and the minuscule amount of requests to borrow, has anybody actually succeeded in getting his RECENT offer borrowed?

I am borrowing, I don't know why other people should not be doing the same, the rate is so good.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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April 23, 2013, 05:01:31 AM
 #954

Quick feature request that I'd really appreciate if possible.   Could we get an "always notify" toggle (even a global option in the user settings)?   That way the lending process would be 100% automated if preferred (autolend and auto notify).

Thanks!

Please, please, please... Yes, please!
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April 23, 2013, 05:11:35 AM
 #955

About the exchange, what governs whether an order gets placed on BFX or Mtgox?

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April 23, 2013, 05:17:56 AM
 #956

Considering the number of offers for lending and the minuscule amount of requests to borrow, has anybody actually succeeded in getting his RECENT offer borrowed?

Yes, I've had a few 1200% loans out for a few hours over the past two days. All of my VIR funds seem to stay out right now.  I've adopted the policy of waiting 36 hours before changing the terms of my offer to see if it be taken. Usually this will allow two US morning sessions to run their course and usually during US timezones morning sessions the VIR money runs out and then other offers have a fighting chance.

It is my belief that those that are borrowing my funds that at offered over VIR are trading the intraday volatility and that those on VIR are those with many small (low btc quantity) positions and are waiting with a pending stop loss order around $100 and a limit order around $140 to $150.

Therefore over the past week, the only time my "new" money / interest is used seems to be in direct proportion to intraday volatility. On "calm" days, like today, it sits and sits and I impatiently wait for my notify email to come in. And then around 5 pm Pacific, I start checking my history tab to see how much is credited today.

You know if I may request a feature, I would also enjoy an email of the amount interest credited that day.

J.
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April 23, 2013, 05:55:19 AM
 #957

Is your site offline? I cannot load it from Germany.

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April 23, 2013, 10:01:19 AM
 #958

Is your site offline? I cannot load it from Germany.

Hello,

We haven't had any problem that I know of. What was the error?



I've been a BFX user for a while and really loving it.   Cheesy

Now I'm trying to signup for the community forum, but it bounces me saying an "invitation code" is needed.  Huh I checked my mail and never received such a thing.

Any ideas?


Hi,

Just send me your email address by PM and I'll send you an invitation.

Have a nice day all
Raphael
Bitfinex team

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April 23, 2013, 01:48:54 PM
 #959


[...]
Insurance on loans:

We made an agreement with an investor willing to put up a reserve in order to cover customers willing to insure their loans.
This reserve amount will start with 50,000 usd and will grow as 75% of the extra commissions generated on insured loans will increase the reserves on a day by day base.
As previously stated insured loans will be charged a commission of 30% on interest maturated instead of the normal 10%.
Of this extra 20% an amount of 15% will be increasing the reserves to cover insured loans ( hopefully making them grow rapidly ) while 5% will go in the pocket of the investor taking the risk.
In case he gets wiped out by a black swan event he will then put up again another 50,000 usd and the whole thing will start all over.
This initial amount allows only about 10% of our current loans to be insured at the beginning and this will be made on a "first come first serve base".
We will add a tick on the loaning page that will allow to opt for insured loans in case the reserves are not all taken yet.
All insured loans will then be 100% reimbursed no matter what happens to the market.
Loans that are generated as non insured can't be insured on a later stage, unless they are first closed and then re-opened again.
On the statistics page we will add a counter that will show the total amount of the reserves and the % of them that are currently being taken. This new system will take place starting from the 1st of May at 00.00 GMT.
[...]
Giancarlo
Customers Relation
The Bitfinex Team

I would very much appreciate if this insurance of loans can be enabled/disabled by lenders for existing loans. Just like the 'Notify' or 'Renew' action.

I understand until 1st May Bitfinex will cover losses in case a trader's position can't be closed by the system in time and the traders margin is gone?
In this case the conditions for long lasting loans suddenly change on 1st May and lenders should have to option to receive back their funds by 1st May to be able to adapt to the new situation.



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April 24, 2013, 10:47:35 AM
 #960

Let say I'm taking a long position and I'm now making a profit and want to close. What currently happens is that the profit is deposited in my USD account.

Would it be possible to rather take the profit in BTC?

The reason being is that currently, after the trade is finished, I need to move the USD to the Exchange wallet, then rebuy BTC, all of which is quite slow and adds fees.
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