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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134408 times)
myself
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April 25, 2013, 09:40:02 AM
 #981

hi, i will like to remember to all user that they can rotate loans, here is a short example

1 lets say you have 100 USD in loans at 20%
2 said loans will show up under Borrowed funds used in a margin position
3 now from the borrowing table you need to borrow another 100 USD at lower rate lets say 15%
4 the new cheaper loans will show up under Unused borrowed funds
5 now you only need to click close on the expensive loan under Borrowed funds used in a margin position and the cheaper loans will used for your position

make sure you always have a same or superior amount or you will have a partial liquidation of your position

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 25, 2013, 09:52:16 AM
 #982

hi, i will like to remember to all user that they can rotate loans, here is a short example

1 lets say you have 100 USD in loans at 20%
2 said loans will show up under Borrowed funds used in a margin position
3 now from the borrowing table you need to borrow another 100 USD at lower rate lets say 15%
4 the new cheaper loans will show up under Unused borrowed funds
5 now you only need to click close on the expensive loan under Borrowed funds used in a margin position and the cheaper loans will used for your position

make sure you always have a same or superior amount or you will have a partial liquidation of your position

Hi thanks for this. I did figure this out after experimentation and I'm rotating my current 400% loans to cheaper ones at around 150%.

But still,
1. I had 50% loans that where closed with the partial liquidation.
2. I needed to add funds (from my BTC wallet) to the margin account in order to take out a new loan before closing the old (rotating loans) one as my margin was already used up.

Otherwise, I'm relatively happy with the platform. You learn these things as you go. School fees, you know.

Side question:

The 'Route Order' functionality is not clear in the UI. You can either:

Not Route Order = Executed on Bitfinex?
Route order -> blank = Executed on Mt Gox?
Route Order -> Bitfinex = Executed on Bitfinex?
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April 25, 2013, 10:59:05 AM
 #983

Hey guys.. anyone know why MTGOX is not a routing option?



It seems my orders are only being executed on BFX. They are not showing up in the MT Gox Order Book. Huh

EDIT:
Just for clarity, I put a margin Buy order in, and it doesn't show up on MT Gox.
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April 25, 2013, 11:01:26 AM
 #984

Oh really.. I think I remember holding a few loans without any active positions and both my swap and P/L was $0.0. So how is that possible? Essentially I was locking up loans, but not being charged...
ofc the P/L is 0 if you dont have a position but if you took a loan you are still charged check your history

Ok. The thing is.. I assumed the loan charge was called the "swap". Is that not correct? The reason I bring this up is that my swap was also 0, not only my P/L.
unclescrooge
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April 25, 2013, 11:14:26 AM
 #985

Hey guys.. anyone know why MTGOX is not a routing option?



It seems my orders are only being executed on BFX. They are not showing up in the MT Gox Order Book. Huh

EDIT:
Just for clarity, I put a margin Buy order in, and it doesn't show up on MT Gox.

Hello,

So for precision:

Order not routed or routed blank are executed against Mtgox and BFX orders, whichever has the most interesting price.

Order routed to Bitfinex are executed against BFX orders of course.

There is no option to route to Mtgox. You cannot place an order on Mtgox orderbook from Bitfinex for technical reasons (orders get lost, and we don't want that).

Let me know if it clarifies things?

Raphael
Bitfinex team

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April 25, 2013, 11:16:21 AM
 #986

hi, i just want to add that your orders never got up on mtgox books we did try to do that using what we call "hard orders" but mtgox sometimes failed to provide order ID  so that feature got cancelled  https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/93-Hard-orders

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
myself
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April 25, 2013, 11:17:49 AM
 #987

Side question:

The 'Route Order' functionality is not clear in the UI. You can either:

Not Route Order = Executed on Bitfinex?
Route order -> blank = Executed on Mt Gox?
Route Order -> Bitfinex = Executed on Bitfinex?

blank route=> execute against best price
BFX route=> execute only on BFX

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
wamatt
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April 25, 2013, 11:20:59 AM
 #988

hi, i will like to remember to all user that they can rotate loans, here is a short example

1 lets say you have 100 USD in loans at 20%
2 said loans will show up under Borrowed funds used in a margin position
3 now from the borrowing table you need to borrow another 100 USD at lower rate lets say 15%
4 the new cheaper loans will show up under Unused borrowed funds
5 now you only need to click close on the expensive loan under Borrowed funds used in a margin position and the cheaper loans will used for your position

make sure you always have a same or superior amount or you will have a partial liquidation of your position

Thanks. That's handy Smiley
wamatt
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April 25, 2013, 11:24:24 AM
 #989

So for precision:

Order not routed or routed blank are executed against Mtgox and BFX orders, whichever has the most interesting price.
Order routed to Bitfinex are executed against BFX orders of course.

There is no option to route to Mtgox. You cannot place an order on Mtgox orderbook from Bitfinex for technical reasons (orders get lost, and we don't want that).

Let me know if it clarifies things?

hi, i just want to add that your orders never got up on mtgox books we did try to do that using what we call "hard orders" but mtgox sometimes failed to provide order ID  so that feature got cancelled  https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/93-Hard-orders

Ok, that's a pity. I realize the order ID could be a problem. But maybe that's fixed in the V2 API?

Also I suppose "blank" routing is usually the 'best', and BFX lower fee's are great. However, there are times when hard routing to mtGox can be useful for better timing on market swings.
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April 25, 2013, 11:39:05 AM
 #990

Ok, that's a pity. I realize the order ID could be a problem. But maybe that's fixed in the V2 API?
afaik the only difference from v1 to v2 is the authentication method

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 25, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
 #991

There is no option to route to Mtgox. You cannot place an order on Mtgox orderbook from Bitfinex for technical reasons (orders get lost, and we don't want that).

Thats unfortunate, but understandable from the technical reasons.
It would be way more dangerous if some trader relied on a hard order at Mt.Gox to protect the position and this order would just be dropped.

But can we hope to get similar hard routed orders at Bitstamp?
The lack of hard orders on a larger (more liquid) market makes day trading quite a challenging task at times, since the spread is always working against you.
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April 25, 2013, 03:37:53 PM
 #992

Take this scenario - I have 100 BTC and 0 USD in my trading wallet. If I try to go short it seems that I'm borrowing bitcoins to sell even though I've already got some. If I wanted to short all my coins I'd have to move them to the exchange wallet, sell them and move back the USD. Am I missing something here?
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April 25, 2013, 03:39:36 PM
 #993

Yes, it is a challenging task. Some of us have still managed to make it work and make money tho anyways.  Smiley  While, I'll admit I have a hard time getting my orders processed sometimes, I always use BFX for routing.  Gox is just to expensive at the price we are at these days.  I hope that the liquidity will be better once bitstamp is included in the mix.  

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April 25, 2013, 03:41:29 PM
 #994

Take this scenario - I have 100 BTC and 0 USD in my trading wallet. If I try to go short it seems that I'm borrowing bitcoins to sell even though I've already got some. If I wanted to short all my coins I'd have to move them to the exchange wallet, sell them and move back the USD. Am I missing something here?

Ya the fact that you need "Collateral" in order to trade on margin!  Those coins are protecting us lenders from you blowing all your funds and more..  If you want to trade on Margin, you have to BORROW coins & money.  otherwise use the exchange and you don't need to worry about it.

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April 25, 2013, 03:45:59 PM
 #995

Take this scenario - I have 100 BTC and 0 USD in my trading wallet. If I try to go short it seems that I'm borrowing bitcoins to sell even though I've already got some. If I wanted to short all my coins I'd have to move them to the exchange wallet, sell them and move back the USD. Am I missing something here?

Ya the fact that you need "Collateral" in order to trade on margin!  Those coins are protecting us lenders from you blowing all your funds and more..  If you want to trade on Margin, you have to BORROW coins & money.  otherwise use the exchange and you don't need to worry about it.



I'm aware of the need for collateral. I'm confused by why I'm borrowing coins if I've got some of my own. Why aren't the coins to my name not being sold off before more are borrowed on margin? Isn't the point of going short to have your position be all USD?
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April 25, 2013, 03:49:27 PM
 #996

I'm aware of the need for collateral. I'm confused by why I'm borrowing coins if I've got some of my own. Why aren't the coins to my name not being sold off before more are borrowed on margin? Isn't the point of going short to have your position be all USD?
because if the market goes up also margin balance goes up so u dont get forced liquidated so fast this way you have a buffer for market fluctuations

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 25, 2013, 04:48:09 PM
 #997

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I would love to know too. I heard you can swap loans out for better ones. But I haven't figure out how to do that yet...

I know how to do this one: all on the lending page: just borrow more and cancel the loans used in your position. Make sure to have enough unused  borrowed funds available. They will automatically replace the missing need.

Still don't know how to avoid unused borrowed funds being given back automatically.

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April 25, 2013, 04:53:57 PM
 #998

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I've assumed that that would be the case, but apparently not! I had loans at various rates, with the lowest rates being the first ones I took out. When I closed a fraction of my trading positions later, it closed the more favourable loans as well (a 50% loan, 30 days), leaving the rest of the position with the more unfavourable loans (200%+ loans)! In my opinion this should not happen and the funds should remain available to me, not closed out. Seems like it closes loans in a FIFO fashion, thats why I lost the older, more favourable loans.
go to https://bitfinex.com/credit then Borrowed funds used in a margin position and click on  the loan you want to close

I think you misunderstand. I don't want to close or replace a loan. I want to keep it from auto-closing when I reduce my long position. I had >$4000 in 50% and 85% loans. By reducing my positions these got partly closed and I was (about 2 days ago) stuck with having to borrow at whooping 500% or whatever insane rate (which I didn't do). I would've loved to be able to use my old unclosed loans.

I would've expected the borrowed funds to move from "borrowed funds used in position" to "unused borrowed funds" when I reduce the position. This is not the case, the loans get automatically closed.


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myself
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April 25, 2013, 04:55:03 PM
 #999

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I would love to know too. I heard you can swap loans out for better ones. But I haven't figure out how to do that yet...

I know how to do this one: all on the lending page: just borrow more and cancel the loans used in your position. Make sure to have enough unused  borrowed funds available. They will automatically replace the missing need.

Still don't know how to avoid unused borrowed funds being given back automatically.

there is a thread about that topic here https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/57-Return-the-loan-when-position-is-closed-or-not

currently when you close the position you give back the loans there is no way to keep the loans

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 25, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
 #1000

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I would love to know too. I heard you can swap loans out for better ones. But I haven't figure out how to do that yet...

I know how to do this one: all on the lending page: just borrow more and cancel the loans used in your position. Make sure to have enough unused  borrowed funds available. They will automatically replace the missing need.

Still don't know how to avoid unused borrowed funds being given back automatically.

there is a thread about that topic here https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/57-Return-the-loan-when-position-is-closed-or-not

currently when you close the position you give back the loans there is no way to keep the loans

I would be a great feature to keep the loans.

Another feature that I'd love to see is the ability to close out a position when a total profit of x.xx or x% has been made.

So basically it would take both the P/L and Swap into account, and if together they were at the target value, then it would close out your position.

I've missed a few opportunities now to close, if one is using expensive loans (like I have been doing), the swap is not insignificant (especially if you hold for a day or two).
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