Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan

[MooC Tals]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

I think if people don't like a company and how they operate they should be allowed to rage against them. I welcome all criticism besides if BFL had nothing to hide why hate people spreading rumors on a petty little forum, their record should be able to hold them up and protect them like a shield of honor.

Hey this is BFL the trade mark of honesty, They never lie they stand behind their product ship dates. They have never treated their customers like people that can't handle the truth. They treat their workers with up most respect.

Do I believe BFL is a scamming MOFO? I dunno but I have the opportunity to find out here on this FUCKED UP FORUM. I LOVE YOU ALL FOR POSTING WHATEVER SHIT YOU WANT. I'm reading it all.

If you have something to say I WANT TO FUCKEN HEAR IT.

BFL YOU BETTER MAKE SURE you're not scamming us cus we are gonna watch your ass.

Thanks again everyone.  

[1715103319]

1715103319

[smoothie]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

I think if people don't like a company and how they operate they should be allowed to rage against them. I welcome all criticism besides if BFL had nothing to hide why hate people spreading rumors on a petty little forum, their record should be able to hold them up and protect them like a shield of honor.

Hey this is BFL the trade mark of honesty, They never lie they stand behind their product ship dates. They have never treated their customers like people that can't handle the truth. They treat their workers with up most respect.

Do I believe BFL is a scamming MOFO? I dunno but I have the opportunity to find out here on this FUCKED UP FORUM. I LOVE YOU ALL FOR POSTING WHATEVER SHIT YOU WANT. I'm reading it all.

If you have something to say I WANT TO FUCKEN HEAR IT.

BFL YOU BETTER MAKE SURE you're not scamming us cus we are gonna watch your ass.

Thanks again everyone.  

+1

lol we are going to watch their ass if they scam us?  [stares at ass]......trollface.jpg

[smoothie]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent. 

[21after2]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent. 

But your input is clearly invaluable and a service to the community

[DoomDumas]

BFL as of Dec was already in violation of a FTC rule, They did not send out the required options notices and everyone who did not get one should call the FTC and complain plain and simple. The FTC will fine them for everyone one of these Notices they did not comply with.

The website in the FAQ still had delivery date listed as NOV, they have since changed that since I posted a post Similar in another thread. That means as of DEC 2012 If you did not get a notice from BFL they broke the FTC rules.

Sample Fine
http://news.cnet.com/FTC-fines-e-tailers-1.5-million-for-shipping-delays/2100-1017_3-243684.html

You may be right, you may be wrong.....

But I fail to see why an order holder would complain to the FTC and risk the company they have money with being fined.  It is probably not in their interest to file a complaint at this time.

+1

[DoomDumas]

A very telling video of Josh Zerlan explaining to a reporter at CES 2013 who started with the softballs and towards the end got to the tough questions.  Pay special attention to Josh Zerlan's eyes looking down-left at the 4:41 mark - it is a great lesson in "low confidence tells" and I suggest Joe Navarro's entire body of work if you'd like to high and low confidence body language better, not just for beating-poker reasons.

This video starts a few seconds before the question is answered by Josh Zerlan but watch carefull at the 4:41 mark for his down-left eye movement

http://youtu.be/5ZUPniBo5UQ?t=4m29s

shout to CoinHoarder for first noticing Josh's low-confidence tells in this video.

This is all BS, did you notice how Josh seems tired and exausted ?  look at his eyes, he seems in total sleep depravation !  Because he works hard ?  because he's stressfull ?  because he does'nt sleep well with the fact of running a scam ?  Choose any you want, but from my point of view.. He's not at his best, whatever why, just give the man a pause.  If he's scamming, then just let foolish peoples get scammed.. If he's working hard for real, for a real product..  Believe me, you must all (trolls) be shamefull for hitting a man that tired/stressed !

Like for any furture asic mining rig, just let it cool for the purpose of it !

[SgtSpike]

If you have no personal knowledge of "what I did the day before" then please read this post that pretty much shut down BFL's weak excuses for Josh Zerlan acting in such an unprofessional manner:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133487.msg1452374#msg1452374

which is worth a full repost in this thread, as that was the first BFL defense mechanism for explaining why their empolyee would talk to a known skeptic in such a way.  I am also adding this to the OP for full context of when watching the video:

This is to the best I can remember.  I wasn't recording anything day 1, wasn't planning on anything but sneaking into CES to shake some BTC hands as I always do when BTC companies buy booths in Vegas for conventions.

Ok, fair enough. I can't really substantiate any claims, as I wasn't there and can only base my statements on hearsay.

[usagi]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent.  

No one asked for your input either. We're all just weighing in.

What Monster Trent said has some real weight. We need to get the address of the fab, and have someone go down there and pay a visit.

[MooC Tals]

A very telling video of Josh Zerlan explaining to a reporter at CES 2013 who started with the softballs and towards the end got to the tough questions.  Pay special attention to Josh Zerlan's eyes looking down-left at the 4:41 mark - it is a great lesson in "low confidence tells" and I suggest Joe Navarro's entire body of work if you'd like to high and low confidence body language better, not just for beating-poker reasons.

This video starts a few seconds before the question is answered by Josh Zerlan but watch carefull at the 4:41 mark for his down-left eye movement

http://youtu.be/5ZUPniBo5UQ?t=4m29s

shout to CoinHoarder for first noticing Josh's low-confidence tells in this video.

This is all BS, did you notice how Josh seems tired and exausted ?  look at his eyes, he seems in total sleep depravation !  Because he works hard ?  because he's stressfull ?  because he does'nt sleep well with the fact of running a scam ?  Choose any you want, but from my point of view.. He's not at his best, whatever why, just give the man a pause.  If he's scamming, then just let foolish peoples get scammed.. If he's working hard for real, for a real product..  Believe me, you must all (trolls) be shamefull for hitting a man that tired/stressed !

Like for any furture asic mining rig, just let it cool for the purpose of it !

I can see your point of view. Lets just say that Nixon was tired or a corrupt banker was tired of the daily pressures of common men tracking down all their corruption. Should good men give them pause? Allow corruption a reprieve. A breath to catch?

All those that took the banks bait and lost their homes and all those that will lose their 401k's the poor SOB that drank the coolaid of politicians in bed with bankers.... The 75 million on foodstamps that voted for the lesser of two evils.

This is a war between good and evil. It's up to each of us to decide who is goo and who is evil.

No ONE should allow evil to rest unless your evil.

If BFL comes through I will give full honor to Josh. But his methods were still bad.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent.  

No one asked for your input either. We're all just weighing in.

What Monster Trent said has some real weight. We need to get the address of the fab, and have someone go down there and pay a visit.

Excellent idea! I say six of us should go to the FAB and they should give us free reign to walk around and inspect the plant. The FAB should have nothing to hide. Why didn't I think of this earlier?  

[MooC Tals]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent.  

No one asked for your input either. We're all just weighing in.

What Monster Trent said has some real weight. We need to get the address of the fab, and have someone go down there and pay a visit.

Bring back the true spirit of journalism!!! Hooraaaah!!!

[Micon]

A very telling video of Josh Zerlan explaining to a reporter at CES 2013 who started with the softballs and towards the end got to the tough questions.  Pay special attention to Josh Zerlan's eyes looking down-left at the 4:41 mark - it is a great lesson in "low confidence tells" and I suggest Joe Navarro's entire body of work if you'd like to high and low confidence body language better, not just for beating-poker reasons.

This video starts a few seconds before the question is answered by Josh Zerlan but watch carefull at the 4:41 mark for his down-left eye movement

http://youtu.be/5ZUPniBo5UQ?t=4m29s

shout to CoinHoarder for first noticing Josh's low-confidence tells in this video.

This is all BS, did you notice how Josh seems tired and exausted ?  look at his eyes, he seems in total sleep depravation !  Because he works hard ?  because he's stressfull ?  because he does'nt sleep well with the fact of running a scam ?  Choose any you want, but from my point of view.. He's not at his best, whatever why, just give the man a pause.  If he's scamming, then just let foolish peoples get scammed.. If he's working hard for real, for a real product..  Believe me, you must all (trolls) be shamefull for hitting a man that tired/stressed !

Like for any furture asic mining rig, just let it cool for the purpose of it !

Is it not BS if its from a former FBI agent?

 

[smoothie]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent. 

But your input is clearly invaluable and a service to the community

Yes please speak for the community more. lol

[smoothie]

Hey BFL FAN BOY!

I'm just trying to understand wtf this is about -- is this an issue about BFL fan boys versus people who don't like BFL? Or if BFL is scamming?

It's been said a couple of times that this is not a "court of law" and that legalese or line-by-line responses are sperging. There is another side to that coin. It's not okay to waltz in here and say that someone is a scammer because you don't like them. That's why I asked for a list of facts earlier. In response I got a bunch of facts like "Sonny committed a crime 10 years ago" and "Josh is a big fat jerk". I'm sorry, I should have said, facts related to whether or not BFL is scamming.

Anyway, no one said your facts had to prove anything. Relax bro. It's okay to hate someone. You have a right to hate people and talk shit in a free society.

LOL I like how you are telling me "how things are".

Thanks but no thanks. No one asked for you input. But keep trying to sound intelligent.  

No one asked for your input either. We're all just weighing in.

What Monster Trent said has some real weight. We need to get the address of the fab, and have someone go down there and pay a visit.

I listed facts for you. It wasn't input. So read again what I wrote to you again. lol

[MPOE-PR]

Micon - I'll gladly take you up on a 1:1 bet that BFL will deliver.  I'd put down 20 BTC that BFL will deliver an ASIC miner by the end of 2013.

That is a pretty easy bet. End of 2013? LOL...how about end of February?

If it's not Josh caught with those captive hundreds in the 732 BTC No : 282 BTC Yes BitBet Bet then who?

[Micon]

Looking for members that want to post anonymously to this site with any BFL information:

http://joshzerlan.com/

[Micon]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-12.html#post10590

Depends on your perspective... BFL has ~12,000 chips coming that will put out 7.5 GHash each, for a total of 90,000 GHash. The first week of BFL's shipments will equal Avalon's first batch. Unless your BFL order was paid for in June, Avalon doubling the hashrate won't mean that much.

But whatever. I'm content with BFL's performance for the most part. Ask me in 2 or 3 months how the various manufacturers have done. 

12,000 chips @ $1,300 each = $15.6M in pre-order monies

this is not science.  This is 1 post on the BFL forums.

[tbcoin]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-12.html#post10590

Depends on your perspective... BFL has ~12,000 chips coming that will put out 7.5 GHash each, for a total of 90,000 GHash. The first week of BFL's shipments will equal Avalon's first batch. Unless your BFL order was paid for in June, Avalon doubling the hashrate won't mean that much.

But whatever. I'm content with BFL's performance for the most part. Ask me in 2 or 3 months how the various manufacturers have done. 

12,000 chips @ $1,300 each = $15.6M in pre-order monies

this is not science.  This is 1 post on the BFL forums.

seriously ... how you pretend have credibility if you have no idea what you're talking about?

Every Single SC ($1,300) has 8 chips

(12,000/8)@ $1,300 each = 1.95M

more easy

Jalapeno has one chip

149*12000=1.79M

[Justin00]

would be quite ingenious to get customers to pay in BTC in june at $7 (or woteva) and then when BTC is $14 refund due to no product.
Ofcourse you would be refunding in USD, so company X makes $7/BTC for doing nothing.

why the hell is no one doing that ?

hmm Perhaps I shall start producing ASIC's... hopefully my maths is correct  

 

[kbroadfoot]

You do realise that if BFL is legit, you're going to look the biggest clown in the whole Bitcoin community for a very long time...

What if BFL is a scam? A scam worth 1/4 of the total bitcoin market cap? Wow... That may easily become the end of bitcoin?!

Scam or no scam... it will not be the end of Bitcoin... If it is a scam perhaps it will be the beginning of people paying attention to company fundamentals before shipping off a bunch a bitcoins to the unknown...