Health and Religion

[Astargath]

If you follow that regression of fault, you will end up at God, he who is responsible for everything.

According to your twisted logic, parents suffer having a baby with birth defects, not only by the choices they make or don't make, but by the choices of their parents (as did the baby), and so on, all the way to God.

All your "blame the victim's parents" logic leads you to your main character.

Remind me who created and then punished Adam and Eve?

Birth defects are caused by many things they can be a result of genetics, lifestyle choices and behaviors, exposure to certain medications and chemicals, infections during pregnancy, a combination of these factors, ect.

Many of these drug use, alcohol consumption, smoking during pregnancy, inadequate prenatal care,
untreated bacterial infections can be traced to deliberate human action or inaction. Others like family history of birth defects or other genetic disorders are currently outside the realm of human choice. These are hopefully problems of ignorance and will be resolvable in the near future with our increasing knowledge.

You are correct that you can trace the ultimate cause of all events good and bad to God.  
So why did God create a universe where evil, horror, and suffering exist? The problem of evil is a deep question. Here is a short video on the subject I agree with.

Why Does God Allow Evil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAexl_loCfg

Crap video. if god can prevent evil in heaven then why hasn't he done it already? Please, a 10 year old would understand how illogical it is.

[BADecker]

Children born with birth defects or HIV did not have much choice, didn't they?  What sin did the newborns commit?

You make as much sense as a hippopotamus explaining Shakespeare.

Newborns clearly have not sinned. They may suffer however do to the choices made outside of their control. Children born with HIV are suffering because of the choices of the elder generation usually their father or mother. Human choices do harm the innocent.

Children with cancer are dying because a part of them has broken away and defected. It no longer acts in its assigned role for the greater good but instead strengths itself over the short run via unrestrained growth. Left unchecked that growth will eventually disrupt the delicate balance necessary for life and will end in death.

If you follow that regression of fault, you will end up at God, he who is responsible for everything.

According to your twisted logic, parents suffer having a baby with birth defects, not only by the choices they make or don't make, but by the choices of their parents (as did the baby), and so on, all the way to God.

All your "blame the victim's parents" logic leads you to your main character.

Remind me who created and then punished Adam and Eve?

If you follow that regression of thought, you will end up with people, who are attempting to thwart the good God does, by not accepting Him.

So you see, it is the ungodly who are using their freedom to cause all the pain and trouble in the world, because the greatest evil is to be against God, if only by not acknowledging Him.

[BADecker]

Crap video. if god can prevent evil in heaven then why hasn't he done it already? Please, a 10 year old would understand how illogical it is.

It works like this:

At the time God made everything, there was no evil. There was only good and better.

God works in everything, because none of it would work at all if God did not work it. Since there wasn't any evil originally, there was no reason for God to NOT move in full force with the thing He was doing... bringing to birth children.

Then evil entered through the children and the devil selecting evil rather than good. But God was already moving in the direction of maintaining all things. You don't simply tell God to put on the brakes when He does something with His strength. The thing He did with His strength was to maintain everything... some of it with free choice, some of it evil, and some good.

The thing that God is doing to get rid of evil is, God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter. This present universe will crash, and once it does, there will be no remembrance of either the good or evil here. So, God is destroying the evil in His own way, even though a few people must live in pain for a hundred years here. When it is done, there will be no remembrance that it even happened.

God will take the people who are on His side - in favor of Him - to the new universe. The others will be destroyed in Hell, because they are the evil that God is getting rid of. Of course, because of the kind of beings people are, it will take all eternity for them to be destroyed. But they asked for it.

[Astargath]

Crap video. if god can prevent evil in heaven then why hasn't he done it already? Please, a 10 year old would understand how illogical it is.

It works like this:

At the time God made everything, there was no evil. There was only good and better.

God works in everything, because none of it would work at all if God did not work it. Since there wasn't any evil originally, there was no reason for God to NOT move in full force with the thing He was doing... bringing to birth children.

Then evil entered through the children and the devil selecting evil rather than good. But God was already moving in the direction of maintaining all things. You don't simply tell God to put on the brakes when He does something with His strength. The thing He did with His strength was to maintain everything... some of it with free choice, some of it evil, and some good.

The thing that God is doing to get rid of evil is, God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter. This present universe will crash, and once it does, there will be no remembrance of either the good or evil here. So, God is destroying the evil in His own way, even though a few people must live in pain for a hundred years here. When it is done, there will be no remembrance that it even happened.

God will take the people who are on His side - in favor of Him - to the new universe. The others will be destroyed in Hell, because they are the evil that God is getting rid of. Of course, because of the kind of beings people are, it will take all eternity for them to be destroyed. But they asked for it.

''God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter.'' Then why didn't he make this one like that to begin with LOL, how illogical can you guys be??

[BADecker]

Crap video. if god can prevent evil in heaven then why hasn't he done it already? Please, a 10 year old would understand how illogical it is.

It works like this:

At the time God made everything, there was no evil. There was only good and better.

God works in everything, because none of it would work at all if God did not work it. Since there wasn't any evil originally, there was no reason for God to NOT move in full force with the thing He was doing... bringing to birth children.

Then evil entered through the children and the devil selecting evil rather than good. But God was already moving in the direction of maintaining all things. You don't simply tell God to put on the brakes when He does something with His strength. The thing He did with His strength was to maintain everything... some of it with free choice, some of it evil, and some good.

The thing that God is doing to get rid of evil is, God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter. This present universe will crash, and once it does, there will be no remembrance of either the good or evil here. So, God is destroying the evil in His own way, even though a few people must live in pain for a hundred years here. When it is done, there will be no remembrance that it even happened.

God will take the people who are on His side - in favor of Him - to the new universe. The others will be destroyed in Hell, because they are the evil that God is getting rid of. Of course, because of the kind of beings people are, it will take all eternity for them to be destroyed. But they asked for it.

''God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter.'' Then why didn't he make this one like that to begin with LOL, how illogical can you guys be??

How in the world dumb are you? God made it this way so that people could prove to themselves what their free will would do. How did they prove it to themselves? By the way they used it.

Oh sure. God could have just let them be what they wanted to be. And then they would wake up in H or H and wonder why they were there. But this way they don't have any excuse for the place they go. They can see how they chose it. But once there, there won't be any looking back, because of the pain, or because of the joy.

I mean, if you want freedom to choose the good or the bad, make your choice. And if you don't want the bad, turn the other way and choose the good.

The new universe, or the decaying old (Hell)... is simply the reward for the choice made.

What? You don't want the freedom to choose? So that you don't choose the wrong thing? You of all people have the knowledge to choose the good rather than the bad. And you seem to only want the bad. So, what's the difference for you? You are going where you are going because you chose it.

What? You don't like the idea that some other people don't know how to make the right choice, or don't have an easy time of choosing? Well, make the right choice, and then get out there and help them make the right choice by becoming a preacher yourself. As it is, you are only trying to get them to make the wrong choice. What's the matter? Do you think their presence will matter at all to you once you are in Hell?

[CoinCube]

HOW RELIGION IN THE UNITED STATES AVAILS ITSELF OF DEMOCRATIC TENDENCIES
By Alexis de Tocqueville

"There is hardly any human action, however particular it may be, that does not originate in some very general idea men have conceived of the Deity, of his relation to mankind, of the nature of their own souls, and of their duties to their fellow creatures. Nor can anything prevent these ideas from being the common spring from which all the rest emanates.

Men are therefore immeasurably interested in acquiring fixed ideas of God, of the soul, and of their general duties to their Creator and their fellow men; for doubt on these first principles would abandon all their actions to chance and would condemn them in some way to disorder and impotence.

This, then, is the subject on which it is most important for each of us to have fixed ideas; and unhappily it is also the subject on which it is most difficult for each of us, left to himself, to settle his opinions by the sole force of his reason. None but minds singularly free from the ordinary cares of life, minds at once penetrating, subtle, and trained by thinking, can, even with much time and care, sound the depths of these truths that are so necessary. And, indeed, we see that philosophers are themselves almost always surrounded with uncertainties; that at every step the natural light which illuminates their path grows dimmer and less secure, and that, in spite of all their efforts, they have discovered as yet only a few conflicting notions, on which the mind of man has been tossed about for thousands of years without every firmly grasping the truth or finding novelty even in its errors. Studies of this nature are far above the average capacity of men
...
When the religion of a people is destroyed, doubt gets hold of the higher powers of the intellect and half paralyzes all the others. Every man accustoms himself to having only confused and changing notions on the subjects most interesting to his fellow creatures and himself. His opinions are ill-defended and easily abandoned; and, in despair of ever solving by himself the hard problems respecting the destiny of man, he ignobly submits to think no more about them.

Such a condition cannot but enervate the soul, relax the springs of the will, and prepare a people for servitude. Not only does it happen in such a case that they allow their freedom to be taken from them; they frequently surrender it themselves. When there is no longer any principle of authority in religion any more than in politics, men are speedily frightened at the aspect of this unbounded independence. The constant agitation of all surrounding things alarms and exhausts them. As everything is at sea in the sphere of the mind, they determine at least that the mechanism of society shall be firm and fixed; and as they cannot resume their ancient belief, they assume a master.

For my own part, I doubt whether man can ever support at the same time complete religious independence and entire political freedom. And I am inclined to think that if faith be wanting in him, he must be subject; and if he be free, he must believe."

[Astargath]

Crap video. if god can prevent evil in heaven then why hasn't he done it already? Please, a 10 year old would understand how illogical it is.

It works like this:

At the time God made everything, there was no evil. There was only good and better.

God works in everything, because none of it would work at all if God did not work it. Since there wasn't any evil originally, there was no reason for God to NOT move in full force with the thing He was doing... bringing to birth children.

Then evil entered through the children and the devil selecting evil rather than good. But God was already moving in the direction of maintaining all things. You don't simply tell God to put on the brakes when He does something with His strength. The thing He did with His strength was to maintain everything... some of it with free choice, some of it evil, and some good.

The thing that God is doing to get rid of evil is, God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter. This present universe will crash, and once it does, there will be no remembrance of either the good or evil here. So, God is destroying the evil in His own way, even though a few people must live in pain for a hundred years here. When it is done, there will be no remembrance that it even happened.

God will take the people who are on His side - in favor of Him - to the new universe. The others will be destroyed in Hell, because they are the evil that God is getting rid of. Of course, because of the kind of beings people are, it will take all eternity for them to be destroyed. But they asked for it.

''God is making a new universe where evil will not be allowed to enter.'' Then why didn't he make this one like that to begin with LOL, how illogical can you guys be??

How in the world dumb are you? God made it this way so that people could prove to themselves what their free will would do. How did they prove it to themselves? By the way they used it.

Oh sure. God could have just let them be what they wanted to be. And then they would wake up in H or H and wonder why they were there. But this way they don't have any excuse for the place they go. They can see how they chose it. But once there, there won't be any looking back, because of the pain, or because of the joy.

I mean, if you want freedom to choose the good or the bad, make your choice. And if you don't want the bad, turn the other way and choose the good.

The new universe, or the decaying old (Hell)... is simply the reward for the choice made.

What? You don't want the freedom to choose? So that you don't choose the wrong thing? You of all people have the knowledge to choose the good rather than the bad. And you seem to only want the bad. So, what's the difference for you? You are going where you are going because you chose it.

What? You don't like the idea that some other people don't know how to make the right choice, or don't have an easy time of choosing? Well, make the right choice, and then get out there and help them make the right choice by becoming a preacher yourself. As it is, you are only trying to get them to make the wrong choice. What's the matter? Do you think their presence will matter at all to you once you are in Hell?

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

[CoinCube]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You would need to make sure that consciousness that made the transition from this world to the next were entirely grounded in the Law. Specifically such consciousness would need to be both superrational and adopt an unbounded and inclusive morality. As long as these two criteria were met there would be no crimes in the next world.

I discussed this immediately upthead in my discussion of Multiverse Wide Cooperation.

In Biblical terms you would need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Astargath]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You would need to make sure that consciousness that made the transition from this world to the next were entirely grounded in the Law. Specifically such consciousness would need to be both superrational and adopt an unbounded and inclusive morality. As long as these two criteria were met there would be no crimes in the next world.

I discussed this immediately upthead in my discussion of Multiverse Wide Cooperation.

In Biblical terms you would need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Do those things affect your free will? If not, then why didnt god create us with those things? What about new babies that are born there, how will god make sure they have those characteristics, you are digging a deeper hole every time lol.

[BADecker]

This bit about the new universe is kind of new information. LOL.

Are you on God's mailing list?  You seem to know a lot about what your God wants and what he did, is doing and will do in the future.

Hmm, are you sure, maybe you are God?

You would have had this info long ago, if you had a direct line to God. But since you won't even acknowledge Him, I thank Him, for your sake, that He is lovingly giving you enough logic to understand a little here and there.

[BADecker]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You will never get a chance to find out how God will do this, because of where you have chosen to go. But I will give you a little hint.

In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.

What I mean is, in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.



EDIT: What makes you think that children will be born in the new universe?

EDIT 2: This post nullifies your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg51994000#msg51994000.

[Astargath]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You will never get a chance to find out how God will do this, because of where you have chosen to go. But I will give you a little hint.

In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.

What I mean is, in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.



EDIT: What makes you think that children will be born in the new universe?

EDIT 2: This post nullifies your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg51994000#msg51994000.

''In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.'' ''in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.''

So why not do that from the beginning, have you ever thought about that? LOL

[BADecker]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You will never get a chance to find out how God will do this, because of where you have chosen to go. But I will give you a little hint.

In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.

What I mean is, in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.



EDIT: What makes you think that children will be born in the new universe?

EDIT 2: This post nullifies your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg51994000#msg51994000.

''In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.'' ''in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.''

So why not do that from the beginning, have you ever thought about that? LOL

Because NU is an extension, sort of, of his universe. It's an extension regarding the reward for the choice made. The reward is either locked-in joy and spiritual growth, or locked-in destruction  - though it takes all eternity for either to be completed.

There is this tiny free will that people have in this universe. Even God doesn't quite know for an absolute fact what the free will of us gods will be, although He can guess it quite accurately in most cases. In the resurrection, the results will be handed out, according to whatever each person chose in this universe and life.

In other words, the NU and Hell will BE the "from the beginning" you are talking about... because none of this universe will ever be remembered or come to mind once the NU is in use.

You made your choice. But God is happy to allow you to have the understanding of what is going on, both so that you will see that it is your choice that sent you there, and so that you can calculate it while you are here.

[CoinCube]

...
In other words, the NU and Hell will BE the "from the beginning" you are talking about... because none of this universe will ever be remembered or come to mind once the NU is in use.
...

"Earth, I think, will not be found by anyone to be in the end a very distinct place.  I think earth, if chosen instead of Heaven, will turn out to have been, all along, only a region in Hell:  and earth, if put second to Heaven, to have been from the beginning a part of Heaven itself." - C.S. Lewis

[BADecker]

...
In other words, the NU and Hell will BE the "from the beginning" you are talking about... because none of this universe will ever be remembered or come to mind once the NU is in use.
...

Earth, I think, will not be found by anyone to be in the end a very distinct place.  I think earth, if chosen instead of Heaven, will turn out to have been, all along, only a region in Hell:  and earth, if put second to Heaven, to have been from the beginning a part of Heaven itself. - C.S. Lewis

I agree.

[Astargath]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You will never get a chance to find out how God will do this, because of where you have chosen to go. But I will give you a little hint.

In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.

What I mean is, in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.



EDIT: What makes you think that children will be born in the new universe?

EDIT 2: This post nullifies your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg51994000#msg51994000.

''In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.'' ''in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.''

So why not do that from the beginning, have you ever thought about that? LOL

Because NU is an extension, sort of, of his universe. It's an extension regarding the reward for the choice made. The reward is either locked-in joy and spiritual growth, or locked-in destruction  - though it takes all eternity for either to be completed.

There is this tiny free will that people have in this universe. Even God doesn't quite know for an absolute fact what the free will of us gods will be, although He can guess it quite accurately in most cases. In the resurrection, the results will be handed out, according to whatever each person chose in this universe and life.

In other words, the NU and Hell will BE the "from the beginning" you are talking about... because none of this universe will ever be remembered or come to mind once the NU is in use.

You made your choice. But God is happy to allow you to have the understanding of what is going on, both so that you will see that it is your choice that sent you there, and so that you can calculate it while you are here.

That doesn't answer the question. Why is he making another universe, did he fuck this one up and has to make another one? Again, why wouldnt he just make that one knowing beforehand how this one will turn out??? Makes no sense.

Also how can god not know something for a fact, isnt he god lol?

[BADecker]

How will god prevent evil in the new universe though, people will still have free choice, no? Therefore they can still commit crimes there, again, 0 logic. What about children born there once we go there? How will he make sure they are born not evil? Garbage argument.

You will never get a chance to find out how God will do this, because of where you have chosen to go. But I will give you a little hint.

In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.

What I mean is, in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.



EDIT: What makes you think that children will be born in the new universe?

EDIT 2: This post nullifies your post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.msg51994000#msg51994000.

''In the new universe, there will only be good. So, people will only have free will to do good and better.'' ''in this universe, no matter the good or bad you choose to do, you can only do what the physics of the universe allows. In the new universe, not even bad thinking will be a choice allowed by NU physics.''

So why not do that from the beginning, have you ever thought about that? LOL

Because NU is an extension, sort of, of his universe. It's an extension regarding the reward for the choice made. The reward is either locked-in joy and spiritual growth, or locked-in destruction  - though it takes all eternity for either to be completed.

There is this tiny free will that people have in this universe. Even God doesn't quite know for an absolute fact what the free will of us gods will be, although He can guess it quite accurately in most cases. In the resurrection, the results will be handed out, according to whatever each person chose in this universe and life.

In other words, the NU and Hell will BE the "from the beginning" you are talking about... because none of this universe will ever be remembered or come to mind once the NU is in use.

You made your choice. But God is happy to allow you to have the understanding of what is going on, both so that you will see that it is your choice that sent you there, and so that you can calculate it while you are here.

That doesn't answer the question. Why is he making another universe, did he fuck this one up and has to make another one? Again, why wouldnt he just make that one knowing beforehand how this one will turn out??? Makes no sense.

Also how can god not know something for a fact, isnt he god lol?

He is making another universe for people who want to remain with Him. He is giving you what you are asking for, remaining in this universe without Him, even in its destruction.

Be happy that someone is showing you what is going to happen, so that you will be able to boldly say something like, "I am so happy that God gave me my free choice, even though I'm going to feel the pain of it through all eternity. I was free, and it was my free choice to be bound in pain."

God knows everything for a fact, except the tiny, inner choices of god-like beings. Why doesn't He know these inner choices? Because the beings are just enough like Him in their ability to use freedom of choice, that nobody can tell for a fact what they will choose.

God wanted you to be a creature of greatness, one able to freely make your own choice. Now that you have, He will honor your choice, and give you what you are asking for.

[CoinCube]

...
I just realized that I might be talking to a real schizophrenic.  So please excuse me, I have to leave this ward.

Heard this song on the radio today for the first time and it reminded me of your post. It is a song about crazy Christians.

Those Crazy Christians - Brad Paisley

[BADecker]

1 Corinthians 1:18-31:

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

26Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

So, it is aspects of weakness in saved people, that allows the Holy Spirit to work faith in their hearts.

[chirannew22]

hi,

Health and disease are the common problem in the society. We need to be in good health to live well. Religion, in every society, in every stage of history, upholds the value of well-being and health as necessary for a meaningful life, and provides its adherents with ways and means to enhance their health and to enable them to deal creatively with human vulnerability to disease, pain and suffering. In every religion there are valuable advices about the health. Within the Buddhist tradition, physical pain and illness can provide an occasion for the cultivation of healthy and desirable mental states including forbearance and patience. Therefore, it is not illness but rather our response to it that has spiritual value in the Buddhist tradition.