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The Bitcoin network protocol was designed to be extremely flexible. It can be used to create timed transactions, escrow transactions, multi-signature transactions, etc. The current features of the client only hint at what will be possible in the future.
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rjk
Sr. Member
 Offline
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
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June 16, 2012, 01:47:54 PM |
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Dammit BFL, why do you have to announce this in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping?  I just had to read 7 pages of bullshit. My opinion/guesses based on what I've read so far: although the Single fiasco resulted in a product that was way under spec for hash rate and over spec for power, they seem to have fixed this with the mini-rig. The mini-rig is over spec on the speed by 1gh/s and under spec on the power by 100 watts, and is a week or 2 late instead of a month late like the Single. Therefore, here's hoping the trend continues: stuff shipping on time that is on-spec. To do this with the published specs, some have mentioned the necessity of using a 40nm process. I don't think that is impossible, especially with VC funding, but it's akin to attacking an ant with a shotgun, and is going to have a similar effect on the difficulty level. Here's hoping I can order soon.  |
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BR0KK
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June 16, 2012, 01:50:15 PM |
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If they have had something by now we would defnetly see that .....
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bulanula
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June 16, 2012, 01:51:29 PM |
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It's difficult to predict a lot of the future dynamics around bitcoin mining. Regardless, ASIC appears to be the future of mining.
I've come to the conclusion that people are approaching mining with the wrong perspective. A lot of people worry about the 51% attack on Bitcoin and ask themselves how easy is it to attack Bitcoin? I believe this is the wrong question to ask. What people should be asking is how easy is it to secure Bitcoin? And the answer to this is what makes me very excited about Bitcoin's future. Any companies investing in Bitcoin will be asking this question. And eventually, I think governments will as well. Theses entities will have a lot at stake and will want assurance that the network can be secured against attack. They will invest in mining operations with 90% of their hardware sitting idle and ready to come online at a moments notice to thwart any attack. They will negotiate with each other (or enter into treaties) regarding the amount of hashing power they apply to securing Bitcoin. As the block reward dwindles and as the difficultly rises, it will become increasingly difficult to profit directly from mining. Instead, these mining agreements will be about providing adequate security to the Bitcoin network to support reasonably low cost transactions to facilitate commerce while simultaneously keeping the electricity costs minimal.
I think a lot of people might buy the $149 ASIC purely to contribute to the security of Bitcoin, without much regard for its profitability. Companies might do the same with the $30k box, but view it more as insurance against an attack on the network. They'll mine while it's profitable and shut down when it's not, but will always be on the ready to flip it back on if there's ever any kind of threat to the network. Still, I think even with the difficulty rising and with increasing adoption pushing the exchange rate higher, a 25 BTC reward per block for the next 4 years is going to ensure that it's pretty profitable for a lot of people for quite a while yet.
Pretty idealistic view but unfortunately that is not how the world works, son. I would think most of us mining right now are in it for the $$$. I would say 20% for the idea and 80% for the $$$. I am certainly one of those 80% and I couldn't care less if the idea makes it as long as I get my bottom line sorted ... What makes you think companies are in for the idea too ? LOL. Companies are all for the $$$ ... |
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ice_chill
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June 16, 2012, 01:54:16 PM |
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This leaves me in a depressing situation.
I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for $1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
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bulanula
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June 16, 2012, 01:56:43 PM |
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This leaves me in a depressing situation.
I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for 1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
In the UK ? This whole country is a rip off mate so no worries. You getting standard treatment. Please tell me how much shipping a 23 KG box over the Atlantic costs !  PS : Should have gone to specsavers and done your research. I always have been waiting for the supercomputa ! |
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Tinua
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June 16, 2012, 02:10:14 PM |
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This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
Send it back with RMA!!! With that, you have not to pay import tax again ! Or i'm wrong? |
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MrTeal
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
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June 16, 2012, 02:11:34 PM |
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This leaves me in a depressing situation.
I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for $1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
They say you can't cancel Minirig orders, but that doesn't mean you aren't able to. In many jurisdictions that would go against consumer protection laws. They're usually pretty specific about being able to cancel due to non-delivery. BFL might argue that they don't sell to consumers, but for most miners that would be a difficult proposition. Call them and tell then you want to cancel, if they tell you no tell them you'll take it up with your CC company. |
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lethe
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
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June 16, 2012, 02:25:21 PM |
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With my considerable (= zero) experience on these matters I'm calling BS on this and will keep waiting for the email or actual info on BFL site.
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Paladin69
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June 16, 2012, 02:26:22 PM |
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Wow I feel like canceling my mini-rig now. The Jalapeno is so cheap and the singles are 40 giga hashes for only twice the price of the current singles? holy jesus...
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bulanula
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June 16, 2012, 02:28:14 PM |
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This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
Send it back with RMA!!! With that, you have not to pay import tax again ! Or i'm wrong? Nice way to avoid import taxes. Now, what happens if you are caught like the criminal you are ? This leaves me in a depressing situation.
I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for $1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
They say you can't cancel Minirig orders, but that doesn't mean you aren't able to. In many jurisdictions that would go against consumer protection laws. They're usually pretty specific about being able to cancel due to non-delivery. BFL might argue that they don't sell to consumers, but for most miners that would be a difficult proposition. Call them and tell then you want to cancel, if they tell you no tell them you'll take it up with your CC company. I doubt he used a CC to pay $15 000. Probably a bank TX so that can't be reversed easily at all. Also, to all the non believers this is real and not some fake BS. See OP and also website talked about June announcement. Why would you pay $500 for Yahoo PR to troll us ( unless you are eldentyrell ) ? |
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cunicula
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
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June 16, 2012, 02:33:11 PM |
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Well, if this is true. The CEO of BFL (or the VCs who may be able to replace him) can own the network at trifling cost and there is jack shit anyone can do about it. You deluded idiots and your precious decentralization. What a fucking joke.
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bulanula
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June 16, 2012, 02:35:55 PM |
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Well, if this is true. The CEO of BFL (or the VCs who may be able to replace him) can own the network at trifling cost and there is jack shit anyone can do about it. You deluded idiots and your precious decentralization. What a fucking joke.
Shhh, don't spoil the beans mate ! Keeping dreaming the dream zzzz "bitcoin" zzzzzz "decentralized" zzz "currency" zzzzz "impossible to attack" zzz "screw the government" zzzzz "worship the butterfly" ( bilderberg symbol  ) |
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MrTeal
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
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June 16, 2012, 02:36:03 PM |
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This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
Send it back with RMA!!! With that, you have not to pay import tax again ! Or i'm wrong? Nice way to avoid import taxes. Now, what happens if you are caught like the criminal you are ? This leaves me in a depressing situation.
I have Mini-Rig on order, and it looks ridiculous now that you can have 40Ghash for $1300. However as they said from begining you can't cancel MiniRig orders.
This means I have to pay 20% import tax, wait until the MiniRig makes that back, then spend money sending it back, etc.
I feel like an idiot to be honest.
They say you can't cancel Minirig orders, but that doesn't mean you aren't able to. In many jurisdictions that would go against consumer protection laws. They're usually pretty specific about being able to cancel due to non-delivery. BFL might argue that they don't sell to consumers, but for most miners that would be a difficult proposition. Call them and tell then you want to cancel, if they tell you no tell them you'll take it up with your CC company. I doubt he used a CC to pay $15 000. Probably a bank TX so that can't be reversed easily at all. Also, to all the non believers this is real and not some fake BS. See OP and also website talked about June announcement. Why would you pay $500 for Yahoo PR to troll us ( unless you are eldentyrell ) ? I would if it's an option. Double points.  I don't think this is BS either, just FUD. If I had to place money on it, I'd say they have the design done with simulated performance numbers. They won't have the mask set done until they collect money from the preorder, and product won't start shipping until 2013 at the earliest assuming they don't run into any problems. Any issues that come up during fab will delay the product with no reimbursement. Whether the silicon will perform as well as the simulations remains to be seen. |
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Paladin69
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June 16, 2012, 02:36:53 PM |
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So there is absolutely no way to cancel the mini-rig order? But I am allowed to receive the shipment, and then send it back for a partial refund?
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Steve
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June 16, 2012, 02:37:07 PM |
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What makes you think companies are in for the idea too ? LOL. Companies are all for the $$$ ...
I don't think that and I didn't say that. Companies are in it for the money. Bitcoin and its security model are what make it attractive. If Bitcoin could help low margin companies like Amazon.com double their earnings (and it can), and it can be trivially secured (by applying hardware to it), I can tell you that is worth billions of dollars to them. This is why I say that people are looking at it the wrong way. People worry about the 51% attack, but I think it's relatively straightforward to protect Bitcoin from such an attack and that's what companies are going to find very attractive. |
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organofcorti
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
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June 16, 2012, 02:40:14 PM |
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So there is absolutely no way to cancel the mini-rig order? But I am allowed to receive the shipment, and then send it back for a partial refund?
From the PR release: Because our first and second generation equipment is expected to be outpaced very quickly by the new hardware, customers who have purchased earlier generation products will be able to trade them in at 100% of their value toward the purchase of SC-generation hardware. |
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wogaut
Donator
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
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June 16, 2012, 02:50:04 PM |
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From the PR release: Because our first and second generation equipment is expected to be outpaced very quickly by the new hardware, customers who have purchased earlier generation products will be able to trade them in at 100% of their value toward the purchase of SC-generation hardware. They will be spending half a year just replacing outdated hardware at no extra cost. Why not just go with cunicula and (quietly) own the whole bitcoin network. Hm... Need to watch closely... |
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sadpandatech
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June 16, 2012, 02:51:30 PM |
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It doesn't matter to me. Sending them back cost me more than what their entry products cost. But as I understand it, you wouldnt get the entry product, but the price equivalent of what you have now. IOW, if you would send in two FPGA singles you should get ~1 SC single @40GH. I dont see why you wouldnt take a (nearly) free ~25 fold increase in hashrate. It may be a band-aid on a wooden leg, but better than nothing and Id be surprised if it wouldnt at least cover shipping fees. noo. they stated they are trading 'hash for hash'. Meaning one jalepeno would cost you 3.5GH/850MH in singles.. Or 4 singles + $60~ for those bad at math. Or $2460 for one jalepeno if you trade in your singles..... cheers |
If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system.
- GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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wogaut
Donator
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
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June 16, 2012, 02:54:01 PM |
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It doesn't matter to me. Sending them back cost me more than what their entry products cost. But as I understand it, you wouldnt get the entry product, but the price equivalent of what you have now. IOW, if you would send in two FPGA singles you should get ~1 SC single @40GH. I dont see why you wouldnt take a (nearly) free ~25 fold increase in hashrate. It may be a band-aid on a wooden leg, but better than nothing and Id be surprised if it wouldnt at least cover shipping fees. noo. they stated they are trading 'hash for hash'. Meaning one jalepeno would cost you 3.5GH/850MH in singles.. Or 4 singles + $60~ for those bad at math. Or $2460 for one jalepeno if you trade in your singles..... cheers Seriously? Can you find that quote? I was certain it was $ for $. |
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