[0Th]Ozcoin Pooled Mining |DGM 1%|Stratum+VarDiff port 80|NEW CN mining|

[crazyates]

Surely most everyone understands Graet.
Obviously you shouldn't be paying so much cost out of your own pocket.
...

This. He shouldn't have to pay anything and also deserves some profit for his work.

But 3% of 1900 ghash/s is 57 ghash/s, which currently equals to about 9.8k USD/month. Thats a WHOLE lot of servers/traffic.

Can you tell us something about your actual costs to give us some transparency?

How often is the pool actually running at 1900GH/s? Honest question here, as whenever I check, it's a bit lower than that.

[mdude77]

Thanks for the support to many people. Including other Pool ops.. Graet has been very sick on the entire thing however he knows this is the only way we can continue to grow. I have even told him that I feel many pools will go to a fee base in the future. The days of free pools will be gone as more resources will be needed to keep such large speeds at bay.

Of course we dont want anyone to leave but we know reality. We just hope to provide a stable and reliable pool in which people can trust. We have a team of people that work on OZCOIN in which keeps everyone honest.

Are you making preparations for the massive increase of hash power that's coming?  Obviously it remains to be seen if/when BFL fulfills their obligations, but I think it's more of a when than an if.  Even if they come out with 1/2 of their promises, that's a huge increase in hash power on the pools.  When that happens, any pool that can't handle it will disappear quickly.

M

[randomguy7]

Surely most everyone understands Graet.
Obviously you shouldn't be paying so much cost out of your own pocket.
...

This. He shouldn't have to pay anything and also deserves some profit for his work.

But 3% of 1900 ghash/s is 57 ghash/s, which currently equals to about 9.8k USD/month. Thats a WHOLE lot of servers/traffic.

Can you tell us something about your actual costs to give us some transparency?

How often is the pool actually running at 1900GH/s? Honest question here, as whenever I check, it's a bit lower than that.

You're right, average hashing rate is lower (1755 mhash/s avg last 7 days [https://www.ozcoin.net/content/hashrate]).

[Tittiez]

Any updates as to payouts?

um?
been running for ~15 hours
announced a few posts back
do you see some issues?

Oh okay.

[420]

Any updates as to payouts?

um?
been running for ~15 hours
announced a few posts back
do you see some issues?

Oh okay.

Haha @ Titiez

[jothan]

With large hashing power ahead, wouldn't the pool benefit from a big reduction of traffic by increasing the difficulty of the shares ?

Difficulty x shares would cut the result sending traffic by a factor of x. It might even be possible to have the share difficulty as an account setting.

[crazyates]

With large hashing power ahead, wouldn't the pool benefit from a big reduction of traffic by increasing the difficulty of the shares ?

Difficulty x shares would cut the result sending traffic by a factor of x. It might even be possible to have the share difficulty as an account setting.

This has been discussed by both pool managers and software devs alike. However, I don't remember what the alternatives were. I think it will have to come to this at some point, but can someone smarter than myself comment on when that decision has to be made?

[kano]

With large hashing power ahead, wouldn't the pool benefit from a big reduction of traffic by increasing the difficulty of the shares ?

Difficulty x shares would cut the result sending traffic by a factor of x. It might even be possible to have the share difficulty as an account setting.

This has been discussed by both pool managers and software devs alike. However, I don't remember what the alternatives were. I think it will have to come to this at some point, but can someone smarter than myself comment on when that decision has to be made?

Before it is needed ...
NOT after.

[Graet]

Thanks for the feedback guys

to clarify as this question has come up a bit
DGM fees are changing from 0 to 3%
VIP benefits for 5% donors will continue, what they will see is the amount in their donation box change from 5% to 2%, ie 3%(fee) + 2% (donation)= 5% (VIP)
PPS fees are 5% and will not change

pool hashrate: I watch and when 24hour average has changed significantly I change speed in topic. Over the last week or so GPUMAX have been leasing more, we have a lot of GPUMAX miners on Ozcoin
our hashrate graph is a pretty good indication of when GPUMAX are leasing or not.
I feel the speeds in pools topics should at best be a guide, you can always look at (most) pools websites and see their hashrate/graphs etc.

But 3% of 1900 ghash/s is 57 ghash/s, which currently equals to about 9.8k USD/month. Thats a WHOLE lot of servers/traffic.

Pool maintaining requires not only servers and traffic, but also time. Possibly lots of time.

thanks Tycho. Definitely lots of time.

Also Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd is a registered company, there are other costs involved in running a business, I haven't just grabbed a server and started a pool.
I am yet to find an accountant that will work for free or "donations" - If anyone knows of a good one in AU let me know
The lawyer I consulted with in the early days of Ozcoin said he though Bitcoin could have a great future but "I will not accept payment in Bitcoin" - he wasn't free or pay by donation either.
It is tax time in my country, I will be spending some time with accountants shortly.
I am also almost at the point it would be good to consult with a solicitor(lawyer in my country) again, there are some issues I could do with advice on.

See I had this idea that it would be good for Bitcoin if Bitcoin businesses actually registered and followed laws, I strongly believe this will strengthen Bitcoin in the times ahead - one day there could be strong opposition, an established legitimate economy will be more robust against attack. If all we are is a bunch of nerds/geeks/trolls operating in secret thinking we are beyond laws and regulations on the interwebz Bitcoin wont get widely adopted. This would be a shame - Bitcoin has the potential to change a lot in our world (maybe even some of it for the good).

I have also already mentioned one of the reason for such a "big" fee is the need for development to cope with upcoming changes in mining hardware. Higher difficulty shares is something we have been trying to get to for about 3 weeks - a node for testing to start. Unfortunately relying on volunteers and having had some issues crop up that need urgent attention this keeps getting pushed back. See Tycho's comment about time and my comments in other posts about compensating the coders for work they do. It isn't just my money that has kept the pool going it is very many hours of work by an awesome crew of volunteers. Everyone mining on Ozcoin benefits from these guys work, on a couple of occasions I have been able to give these guys a few BTC as thanks, usually they work for a typed thanks and the knowledge they are helping build a great pool - I feel some reward for effort is long overdue.

I know it will be hard for some to swallow, but legitimate registered businesses operating within the law is essential for the further adoption of Bitcoin - well if Bitcoin is to become more than an experiment and actually step out into the larger community.

none of the detractors has answered

my choices were
1: close one of the best Bitcoin mining Pools and pay miners out - so long Ozcoin
2: ask people that use the pool to pay for it and have some funds to spend on developing the pool further - long live Ozcoin
3: do what ARSbitcoin (and too many others to remember) did and neglect the pool untill it fails and leave miners with unpaid funds they will never see. - too bad cya miners

which would you choose in my position? be honest now.

yet
Would you rage so much if I just closed down - I mean you would still be losing your 0fee pool.


I can only say again this was a hard decision to make, the only reason I have taken it is to keep Ozcoin a viable Premium Bitcoin pool.

From here on in I will listen to my supporters (there are many and I <3 them very much) and ignore the detractors.

As of next Sunday morning UTC Ozcoin will become a fee for service pool, the fee will be 3% for DGM and PPS will continue at 5% , miners that would like to mine on Ozcoin now or after that time will be welcome as always, those that for ANY reason don't want to are not obliged to. tho I do wonder how some people can justify the amount of rage. I have given reasonable warning, obviously they like Ozcoin, to be so upset at having to leave....but then I remember the hoppers and the rage from some because Ozcoin decided to move to a non-exploitable payout system and the forecast of how the pool would die . I guess some folks just cant handle change well. even if it is for the better
Thanks for taking the time to read,
Best wishes
Graeme

[mdude77]

but then I remember the hoppers and the rage from some because Ozcoin decided to move to a non-exploitable payout system and the forecast of how the pool would die . I guess some folks just cant handle change well. even if it is for the better
Thanks for taking the time to read,
Best wishes
Graeme

Seriously?  Hoppers had the nerve to say the pool would die when they couldn't exploit it by putting part of their hash power on it at certain times and let others do the hard work to finish it?

Wow, some people's kids.

M

[organofcorti]

but then I remember the hoppers and the rage from some because Ozcoin decided to move to a non-exploitable payout system and the forecast of how the pool would die . I guess some folks just cant handle change well. even if it is for the better
Thanks for taking the time to read,
Best wishes
Graeme

Seriously?  Hoppers had the nerve to say the pool would die when they couldn't exploit it by putting part of their hash power on it at certain times and let others do the hard work to finish it?

Wow, some people's kids.

M

It was disinformation.

I clearly remember the main hoppers complaining at the time, and I know it was just part of a way to try to scare other prop pools into staying prop. Part of the argument was that pool hoppers only added hashrate, and was that so bad? And just because they stayed only while shares were worth more didn't mean that fulltime miners wouldn't also benefit? Any of the guys making these arguments knew better. Pool hoppers have to have a bit of nouse if they want to do it long term.

[randomguy7]

Thanks for the detailed post, Graet. And just for the books, I wasn't raging, just curious how the pool costs set up.

[Graet]

hey look, I have had a few stressful days
I just detailed it here for any interested
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99954.msg1094597#msg1094597

I apologise if I have been a bit grumpy and there really is no excuse.

I guess one thing that is spinning ppls heads is that BTC is worth $11 ea atm, but please remember it was only a few weeks ago it was $5 adn could be again anytime soon.
3% of 2Thash might be too much yes, my honest expectation is we will lose 7 -900Ghash of miners.
3% of a 6 block day is different to 3% of a 18 block day, generally we have been unlucky lately, the pool has paid out >50BTC for many blocks and resources are getting stretched.

call me crazy I have always dealt with a Bitcoin as a Bitcoin - not a $5 or $11 or $30 dollar piece.

tonight I am off to sleep and dream of lucky block runs

[os2sam]

call me crazy I have always dealt with a Bitcoin as a Bitcoin - not a $5 or $11 or $30 dollar piece.

Graeme,
I wish more people had that attitude.  That is why I am interested in Bitcoin in the first place, because it is an alternative currency not because it's an investment instrument.  I was really disappointed when I discovered that I/we were in the minority.

I can understand the pragmatism of the big time miners who have invested allot in equipment and electricity who want/need a return on investment.  But I don't think mining to just dump bitcoins on the market as a get rich quick scheme is good for bitcoin.
Sam

[mdude77]

call me crazy I have always dealt with a Bitcoin as a Bitcoin - not a $5 or $11 or $30 dollar piece.

Graeme,
I wish more people had that attitude.  That is why I am interested in Bitcoin in the first place, because it is an alternative currency not because it's an investment instrument.  I was really disappointed when I discovered that I/we were in the minority.

I can understand the pragmatism of the big time miners who have invested allot in equipment and electricity who want/need a return on investment.  But I don't think mining to just dump bitcoins on the market as a get rich quick scheme is good for bitcoin.
Sam

Until bitcoin goes mainstream, there really isn't much choice in the matter.  As Graet said in his long post.. his lawyer said he won't take bitcoins. 

You can tell how currencies rank..

iocoin, devcoin, namecoin, litecoin, most everyone trades them for bitcoin.

And bitcoin, a lot trade for their favorite paper currency.  Isn't much else you can do with it right now, aside from a few novelty things.  Dunno about the rest of you, but I don't have spare money to put in a crypto currency that may someday go mainstream.

M

[Inaba]

I wish some of the more vocal miners could experience what it's like from a financial and more importantly a stress point when running a pool.  Keeping your own mining farm(s) going is stressful enough, because you know when it goes down you start losing money.  Running a pool, where everyone else depends on you is like running everyone elses farm.  It's a huge time sink and a huge amount of stress.  I don't think Graet does this as his full time job, so he's got other stuff on his plate as well. 

I tell ya, it wears a mofo out sometimes.  I'm surprised that people are being abusive about it and that is pretty disappointing.  Someone gives something for free, then another person has the gall to complain when they decide to stop paying you to consume their resources and time?  Whoa.  Entitled much? 

And bitcoin, a lot trade for their favorite paper currency.  Isn't much else you can do with it right now, aside from a few novelty things.  Dunno about the rest of you, but I don't have spare money to put in a crypto currency that may someday go mainstream.

I buy all sorts of non-novelty items with Bitcoin.  You shouldn't be hoarding bitcoins anyway, you should be spending them.  That's how the economy grows.  Hoarding them causes the economy to shrink and exactly opposite of what we want.  Lots of daily needs/use items to buy for Bitcoin, shop around.  Need some dental work?  Come on out to KC, we have a dentists office taking bitcoin.   I dunno about you, but I don't think a crown or a filling is a novelty item.

[P4man]

I wish some of the more vocal miners could experience what it's like from a financial and more importantly a stress point when running a pool.  Keeping your own mining farm(s) going is stressful enough, because you know when it goes down you start losing money.  Running a pool, where everyone else depends on you is like running everyone elses farm.  It's a huge time sink and a huge amount of stress. 

+10.
Its far worse than running your own farm.
If my farm (humble as it may be) goes down, then so be it, see if I care, I lose a few coins, but no one is going to blame me for it.  But since running puppetmaster and having responsibility over other people's farms  I sleep with one eye open, expecting any minute to be waken by an alert,  and just about everything I do, everywhere I go, there is this stress of "what if it goes down NOW".

[mdude77]

And bitcoin, a lot trade for their favorite paper currency.  Isn't much else you can do with it right now, aside from a few novelty things.  Dunno about the rest of you, but I don't have spare money to put in a crypto currency that may someday go mainstream.

I buy all sorts of non-novelty items with Bitcoin.  You shouldn't be hoarding bitcoins anyway, you should be spending them.  That's how the economy grows.  Hoarding them causes the economy to shrink and exactly opposite of what we want.  Lots of daily needs/use items to buy for Bitcoin, shop around.  Need some dental work?  Come on out to KC, we have a dentists office taking bitcoin.   I dunno about you, but I don't think a crown or a filling is a novelty item.

Don't get me wrong, I don't trade mine for cash.  But where I spend them uses the USD equivalent to determine their value.

When the day BTC becomes backed by gold, then it'll be a real currency. 

Even if it isn't, at least it won't be fiat.  (Yes, that means most currencies of the world aren't real.)

M

[os2sam]

When the day BTC becomes backed by gold, then it'll be a real currency. 

Bitcoin is backed by the value of the hashpower that mined it.
Sam

[kano]

...
When the day BTC becomes backed by gold, then it'll be a real currency. 
...

So ... there are no real currencies?