Do you believe in god?

[BADecker]

But logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP. The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God (whatever He/She/It is) is the only way things could exist as they do.

Logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP...  Oh cmon dude, you can use logic with something like that. Logic would be "if I can't see any evidence of that, it must not exist", logic isnt "Unicorns exist, tho there isn't any evidence at all that doesn't mean that they dont exist. look they are here in these tales and books, so they must exist."

The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God.. haha yeah, that must be it, they aren't logical enough.

Touch the wall by the computer. Is there anything behind the wall? If you can't see it, it probably isn't there, right? That's what you are saying. You are about as dumb as atheists get.

And you're dumb if you think you can just make up what's behind the wall and portray it as fact.

Science asks what's behind the wall and if we can detect it.

You are right. I would be "dumb" if I did that. That's why I show the evidence and proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

[btcmylove]

As the letter there, do not believe there is No. If God really exists, it can punish the wicked, it is estimated that there will be no war. Of course, this is just a good wish. I don't need to talk about history. Talk about my understanding of god. God is a kind of faith, but I think it is a kind of belief. God will not pity Burma a lazy person, but God will strive for the life of the people rewarding, God is "person" it is also very busy, can not take care of all the people (a tragedy) but as long as you work hard for God is your chance 51%.

[stats]

CoinCube..... I see you missed the others.

Do you want to explain how the bible explains slavery and marrying the rapist, or even not wearing clothing of 2 different materials..... what about forbidding you from eating rabbit, shellfish, pork, weasels, scavengers, reptiles, and owls.

Please.... any of these will do?

If they are too hard, what about killing? 2 crops in the same field? No Jewelry or ostracizing people with disabilities?

Please shed some light.

Stats its not really my job to answer these questions for you nor do I have all the answers but I will answer the hardest one on your list and leave it to you to figure out the rest. Lets look at slavery. Why might the Bible/Torah have rules about how slaves should be treated rather then simply prohibit slavery outright?

Let's start simple:

Take an agrarian society surrounded by hostile nations. Go in there and forcefully abolish slavery. The result? War, bloodshed, hatred, prejudice, poverty and eventually, a return to slavery until the underlying conditions change. Which is pretty much what happened in the American South when the semi-industrialized North imposed their laws upon the agrarian South. And in Texas when Mexico attempted to abolish slavery among the Anglophones there.

Not a good idea. Better idea: Place humane restrictions upon the institution of indentured servitude. Yes, it's still ugly, but in the meantime, you'll teach people compassion and kindness. Educate. Make workshops... Eventually, things change and slavery becomes an anachronism for such a society.

Which is pretty much what happened to Jewish society. Note this: At a time when Romans had literally thousands of slaves per citizen, even the wealthiest Jews held very modest numbers of servants. And those servants, the Talmud tells us, were treated better by their masters than foreign kings would treat their own subjects.

Torah teaches us how to run a libertarian society--through education and participation. Elsewhere in the world, emperors and aristocracy knew only how to govern a mass of people through oppression. Look what happened to Rome.

Getting Real Change

If God would simply and explicitly declare all the rules, precisely as He wants His world to look and what we need to do about it, the Torah would never become real to us. No matter how much we would do and how good we would be, we would remain aliens to the process.

So, too, with slavery (and there are many other examples): In the beginning, the world starts off as a place where oppressing others is a no-qualms, perfectly acceptable practice. It's not just the practice Torah needs to deal with, it's the attitude. So Torah involves us in arriving at that attitude. To the point that we will say, "Even though the Torah lets us, we don't do things that way."

Which means that we've really learnt something. And now, we can teach it to others. Because those things you're just told, those you cannot teach. You can only teach that which you have discovered on your own.
History bears this out... As much as Rome ruled over Judea, Jewish values deeply transformed Rome. One of the results was the legal privileges eventually granted to slaves and the gradual recognition of the value of human life.

Christianity’s influence, in the west, set into motion the belief that man is accountable to God and that the law is the same regardless of status.

http://crossandquill.com/journey/the-influence-of-christianity-on-western-civilization/

Take the conflict between the Christian emperor Theodosius the Great and St. Ambrose. It happened in 300 A.D. when some in Thessalonica rioted and aroused the anger of the emperor who overreacted by slaughtering approximately seven thousand people, most of whom were innocent. Bishop Ambrose asked the emperor to repent and when Theodosius refused, the bishop excommunicated him. After a month Theodosius prostrated himself and repented in Ambrose’s cathedral.

Ambrose readmitted the emperor only after several months of penance and when he promoted a law, which in the case of death sentences would allow a thirty-day lag before the execution would be enforced. One can only speculate how many other massacres were avoided throughout history by the mitigating influence of a religion who's commandments include "Thou shalt not kill"

But is says to do so in the Bible.... so why do you not follow the bible?

[stats]

But logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP. The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God (whatever He/She/It is) is the only way things could exist as they do.

Logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP...  Oh cmon dude, you can use logic with something like that. Logic would be "if I can't see any evidence of that, it must not exist", logic isnt "Unicorns exist, tho there isn't any evidence at all that doesn't mean that they dont exist. look they are here in these tales and books, so they must exist."

The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God.. haha yeah, that must be it, they aren't logical enough.

Touch the wall by the computer. Is there anything behind the wall? If you can't see it, it probably isn't there, right? That's what you are saying. You are about as dumb as atheists get.

And you're dumb if you think you can just make up what's behind the wall and portray it as fact.

Science asks what's behind the wall and if we can detect it.

You are right. I would be "dumb" if I did that. That's why I show the evidence and proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Your "evidence and proof" is flawed.

You quote yourself as proof and therefore cannot be trusted.

Have your God come down and drink a beer with me. No simple task for your God is it?

Whilst you are at it, prove to me that Thor, Buddah, Zeus and any other God does not exist therefore making your God special.

[CoinCube]

But is says to do so in the Bible.... so why do you not follow the bible?

Stats I already answered your question but you may have missed it upthread so I will try one last time.

Let's look at another similar example.

Exodus 31:14
"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

According to your interpretation stats we should execute everyone we see working on Saturday?
Personally I feel that such an action would violate the Biblical prohibition on murder don't you?

What is the actual meaning? I think it means is that if we work 7 days a week we make slaves of ourselves separating ourselves from our families and communities and over the long run doing so is extremely bad for us  even fatal. The Japanese call this Karōshi literally death from work.

The following five minute clip from Prager university covers this in more depth.
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/remember-sabbath

[Buffer Overflow]

But logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP. The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God (whatever He/She/It is) is the only way things could exist as they do.

Logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP...   Oh cmon dude, you can use logic with something like that. Logic would be "if I can't see any evidence of that, it must not exist", logic isnt "Unicorns exist, tho there isn't any evidence at all that doesn't mean that they dont exist. look they are here in these tales and books, so they must exist."

The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God.. haha yeah, that must be it, they aren't logical enough.

Touch the wall by the computer. Is there anything behind the wall? If you can't see it, it probably isn't there, right? That's what you are saying. You are about as dumb as atheists get.

And you're dumb if you think you can just make up what's behind the wall and portray it as fact.

Science asks what's behind the wall and if we can detect it.

You are right. I would be "dumb" if I did that. That's why I show the evidence and proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

And you're dumb if you think you can just make up what's behind the wall and portray it as fact.

You are right. I would be "dumb" if I did that.

Sounds like BADlogic is guessing what's behind the wall and protraying it as fact. He says so himself:

Science is guesswork.

 

[Indijanos]

But is says to do so in the Bible.... so why do you not follow the bible?

Stats I already answered your question but you may have missed it upthread so I will try one last time.

Let's look at another similar example.

Exodus 31:14
"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

According to your interpretation stats we should execute everyone we see working on Saturday?
Personally I feel that such an action would violate the Biblical prohibition on murder don't you?

What is the actual meaning? I think it means is that if we work 7 days a week we make slaves of ourselves separating ourselves from our families and communities and over the long run doing so is extremely bad for us  even fatal. The Japanese call this Karōshi literally death from work.

The following five minute clip from Prager university covers this in more depth.
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/remember-sabbath

I have noticed that bible has a few stuff that contradict one another like that one and the problem is that we can't know and people are understanding is as they want to but as we know that one man didn't write the bible but a few of them, that can happen since they probably weren't writing the bible books over skype. :p

[iluvbitcoins]

I have noticed that bible has a few stuff that contradict one another like that one and the problem is that we can't know and people are understanding is as they want to but as we know that one man didn't write the bible but a few of them, that can happen since they probably weren't writing the bible books over skype. :p

Exactly

Bible is a book of men, not a book of God

I can't understand how people fail to realize that

Constantinopole 4th century BC 

[BADecker]

But logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP. The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God (whatever He/She/It is) is the only way things could exist as they do.

Logical religious people realize it didn't happen by ZAP...   Oh cmon dude, you can use logic with something like that. Logic would be "if I can't see any evidence of that, it must not exist", logic isnt "Unicorns exist, tho there isn't any evidence at all that doesn't mean that they dont exist. look they are here in these tales and books, so they must exist."

The atheist freaks aren't logical enough to see that God.. haha yeah, that must be it, they aren't logical enough.

Touch the wall by the computer. Is there anything behind the wall? If you can't see it, it probably isn't there, right? That's what you are saying. You are about as dumb as atheists get.

And you're dumb if you think you can just make up what's behind the wall and portray it as fact.

Science asks what's behind the wall and if we can detect it.

You are right. I would be "dumb" if I did that. That's why I show the evidence and proof:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

And you're dumb if you think you can just make up what's behind the wall and portray it as fact.

You are right. I would be "dumb" if I did that.

Sounds like BADlogic is guessing what's behind the wall and protraying it as fact. He says so himself:

Science is guesswork.

 

Science theory is guesswork. Science law is fact. So, science as a whole is guesswork. The wise person depends on science law.

You don't know if there is anything behind the wall. If you are in construction, your experience might suggest it. Smash through your wall to see if there is anything back there.

NO, Fluffer! Don't really do this. I had to tell you not to do it. Otherwise you just might go around smashing walls to see if there is anything behind them.

[iluvbitcoins]

Science theory is guesswork. Science law is fact. So, science as a whole is guesswork. The wise person depends on science law.

You don't know if there is anything behind the wall. If you are in construction, your experience might suggest it. Smash through your wall to see if there is anything back there.

NO, Fluffer! Don't really do this. I had to tell you not to do it. Otherwise you just might go around smashing walls to see if there is anything behind them.

You seem very unfamiliar with science.

Science theory is not guesswork

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed, preferably using a written, pre-defined, protocol of observations and experiments. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.

Even a hypothesis isn't guesswork  

A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.

A different meaning of the term hypothesis is used in formal logic, to denote the antecedent of a proposition; thus in the proposition "If P, then Q", P denotes the hypothesis (or antecedent); Q can be called a consequent. P is the assumption in a (possibly counterfactual) What If question.

The adjective hypothetical, meaning "having the nature of a hypothesis", or "being assumed to exist as an immediate consequence of a hypothesis", can refer to any of these meanings of the term "hypothesis".

You might not see what's behind a wall, but you can use science to prove what lies beyond with utmost certainty  

[BADecker]

Science theory is guesswork. Science law is fact. So, science as a whole is guesswork. The wise person depends on science law.

You don't know if there is anything behind the wall. If you are in construction, your experience might suggest it. Smash through your wall to see if there is anything back there.

NO, Fluffer! Don't really do this. I had to tell you not to do it. Otherwise you just might go around smashing walls to see if there is anything behind them.

You seem very unfamiliar with science.

Science theory is not guesswork

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed, preferably using a written, pre-defined, protocol of observations and experiments. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.

Even a hypothesis isn't guesswork  

A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.

A different meaning of the term hypothesis is used in formal logic, to denote the antecedent of a proposition; thus in the proposition "If P, then Q", P denotes the hypothesis (or antecedent); Q can be called a consequent. P is the assumption in a (possibly counterfactual) What If question.

The adjective hypothetical, meaning "having the nature of a hypothesis", or "being assumed to exist as an immediate consequence of a hypothesis", can refer to any of these meanings of the term "hypothesis".

You might not see what's behind a wall, but you can use science to prove what lies beyond with utmost certainty  

If it is not science law, it is science guesswork. It might be based on a whole lot of things that seem factual... it might even be based on science law... but if it is science theory, it is not known to be science law, and is, therefore, guesswork.

Using science to find out what is behind the wall is the exact reason I told Fluffer not to do it. Once he had used the science of smashing through the wall, he'd have to go to the trouble of putting the wall back together. It might never be as good as it was originally. Of course, if he is going to remodel anyway, have at the smashing science.

[BADecker]

Science theory is guesswork. Science law is fact. So, science as a whole is guesswork. The wise person depends on science law.

You don't know if there is anything behind the wall. If you are in construction, your experience might suggest it. Smash through your wall to see if there is anything back there.

NO, Fluffer! Don't really do this. I had to tell you not to do it. Otherwise you just might go around smashing walls to see if there is anything behind them.

You seem very unfamiliar with science.

Science theory is not guesswork

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed, preferably using a written, pre-defined, protocol of observations and experiments. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.

Even a hypothesis isn't guesswork  

A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.

A different meaning of the term hypothesis is used in formal logic, to denote the antecedent of a proposition; thus in the proposition "If P, then Q", P denotes the hypothesis (or antecedent); Q can be called a consequent. P is the assumption in a (possibly counterfactual) What If question.

The adjective hypothetical, meaning "having the nature of a hypothesis", or "being assumed to exist as an immediate consequence of a hypothesis", can refer to any of these meanings of the term "hypothesis".

You might not see what's behind a wall, but you can use science to prove what lies beyond with utmost certainty  

If it is not science law, it is science guesswork. It might be based on a whole lot of things that seem factual... it might even be based on science law... but if it is science theory, it is not known to be science law, and is, therefore, guesswork.

Using science to find out what is behind the wall is the exact reason I told Fluffer not to do it. Once he had used the science of smashing through the wall, he'd have to go to the trouble of putting the wall back together. It might never be as good as it was originally. Of course, if he is going to remodel anyway, have at the smashing science.

What are you talking about?  Religious people are the intellectually laziest people I know.  They refuse to investigate any unknowns. Instead, they replace any unknowns with 'God'.
'God' concept allows them to stop thinking.  'God' controls everything, so 'we don't need to worry about shit'.

What I am talking about is the fact that science and nature prove that God exists:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

But atheists simply won't accept science fact. Rather, they accept as true, science theory which is not known to be true, thereby making it a religion for themselves.

Religion and science do not mix.  

Science that is not known to be true, yet is believed to be true, is a religion for those who believe it. Science is not supposed to be this way, but science theory that is believed to be true is religion in the heart of the believer.

Science is about learning how the world works, develop new technology, progress.  Science is cumulative. Science is reviewed and revised as we learn more about how the world works.

Nobody has to believe that science theory is factual. If nobody did, science wouldn't be religion. But because all kinds of people believe the unknowns of science to be true and factual, they have made science into a religion for themselves.

Religion is about sitting in the cave, be happy it does not rain on your head, and pray for the Sun to come up tomorrow.  Religion is fixed, written in a book.

And, really. It's about time you atheists and science theory believers came out of your cave.

It offends me when people stop thinking, that is why religious ideology (it does not matter which one) offends me.

Religious people are intellectually DEAD, so stop pretending you understand anything about science.  You cannot discern reality, you talk to your imaginary friend, WTF?
How in the world you can function in today's world is beyond me.

Science will unpeel your 'God' ideology like an onion, layer by layer.

This is exactly the thing that I am saying. But it doesn't seem to be working for you and many other science theory believers and atheists.

[BADecker]

Science theory is guesswork. Science law is fact. So, science as a whole is guesswork. The wise person depends on science law.

You don't know if there is anything behind the wall. If you are in construction, your experience might suggest it. Smash through your wall to see if there is anything back there.

NO, Fluffer! Don't really do this. I had to tell you not to do it. Otherwise you just might go around smashing walls to see if there is anything behind them.

You seem very unfamiliar with science.

Science theory is not guesswork

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed, preferably using a written, pre-defined, protocol of observations and experiments. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.

Even a hypothesis isn't guesswork  

A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.

A different meaning of the term hypothesis is used in formal logic, to denote the antecedent of a proposition; thus in the proposition "If P, then Q", P denotes the hypothesis (or antecedent); Q can be called a consequent. P is the assumption in a (possibly counterfactual) What If question.

The adjective hypothetical, meaning "having the nature of a hypothesis", or "being assumed to exist as an immediate consequence of a hypothesis", can refer to any of these meanings of the term "hypothesis".

You might not see what's behind a wall, but you can use science to prove what lies beyond with utmost certainty  

If it is not science law, it is science guesswork. It might be based on a whole lot of things that seem factual... it might even be based on science law... but if it is science theory, it is not known to be science law, and is, therefore, guesswork.

Using science to find out what is behind the wall is the exact reason I told Fluffer not to do it. Once he had used the science of smashing through the wall, he'd have to go to the trouble of putting the wall back together. It might never be as good as it was originally. Of course, if he is going to remodel anyway, have at the smashing science.

What are you talking about?  Religious people are the intellectually laziest people I know.  They refuse to investigate any unknowns. Instead, they replace any unknowns with 'God'.
'God' concept allows them to stop thinking.  'God' controls everything, so 'we don't need to worry about shit'.

What I am talking about is the fact that science and nature prove that God exists:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

But atheists simply won't accept science fact. Rather, they accept as true, science theory which is not known to be true, thereby making it a religion for themselves.

Religion and science do not mix.  

Science that is not known to be true, yet is believed to be true, is a religion for those who believe it. Science is not supposed to be this way, but science theory that is believed to be true is religion in the heart of the believer.

Science is about learning how the world works, develop new technology, progress.  Science is cumulative. Science is reviewed and revised as we learn more about how the world works.

Nobody has to believe that science theory is factual. If nobody did, science wouldn't be religion. But because all kinds of people believe the unknowns of science to be true and factual, they have made science into a religion for themselves.

Religion is about sitting in the cave, be happy it does not rain on your head, and pray for the Sun to come up tomorrow.  Religion is fixed, written in a book.

And, really. It's about time you atheists and science theory believers came out of your cave.

It offends me when people stop thinking, that is why religious ideology (it does not matter which one) offends me.

Religious people are intellectually DEAD, so stop pretending you understand anything about science.  You cannot discern reality, you talk to your imaginary friend, WTF?
How in the world you can function in today's world is beyond me.

Science will unpeel your 'God' ideology like an onion, layer by layer.

This is exactly the thing that I am saying. But it doesn't seem to be working for you and many other science theory believers and atheists.

You simply don't understand how the science works.  
How is the scientific progress made?  
How any scientific theory is peer reviewed, how theories are validated and invalidated in the lab.

What? Are you trying to say that unvalidated science theories are fact? If that is what you are saying, you have a lot to learn about science.

You don't understand any science.  You try to cherry pick it, just like you cherry pick your Bible.

You are way off base. You can't even tell the difference between science theory and science fact, even after I have shown it to you over and over. If you don't like Bible cherry picking, stop doing it... go out and get a Bible and get the whole thing into yourself.

Very intellectually dishonest but then again, you are stuck with the bronze age world view that is constantly challenged by the scientific discoveries.
So you trail behind science and twist your religious dogma to fit the reality.  But it is getting harder and harder...right?

If you would stop misrepresenting science, I wouldn't sound like I was intellectually dishonest to you. But you would keep on anyway, because you are just a troll who doesn't understand science, and barely how to think.

[stats]

But is says to do so in the Bible.... so why do you not follow the bible?

Stats I already answered your question but you may have missed it upthread so I will try one last time.

Let's look at another similar example.

Exodus 31:14
"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

According to your interpretation stats we should execute everyone we see working on Saturday?
Personally I feel that such an action would violate the Biblical prohibition on murder don't you?

What is the actual meaning? I think it means is that if we work 7 days a week we make slaves of ourselves separating ourselves from our families and communities and over the long run doing so is extremely bad for us  even fatal. The Japanese call this Karōshi literally death from work.

The following five minute clip from Prager university covers this in more depth.
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/remember-sabbath

Not my interpretation CoinCube.... your bible says so.

It was commented that because it says to pray in the Bible, then you should pray.  I'm just highlighting the inconsistencies in the book by showing how there are many situations in the bible which tell people to do things which people ignore.

[CoinCube]

But is says to do so in the Bible.... so why do you not follow the bible?

Stats I already answered your question but you may have missed it upthread so I will try one last time.

Let's look at another similar example.

Exodus 31:14
"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

According to your interpretation stats we should execute everyone we see working on Saturday?
Personally I feel that such an action would violate the Biblical prohibition on murder don't you?

What is the actual meaning? I think it means is that if we work 7 days a week we make slaves of ourselves separating ourselves from our families and communities and over the long run doing so is extremely bad for us  even fatal. The Japanese call this Karōshi literally death from work.

The following five minute clip from Prager university covers this in more depth.
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/remember-sabbath

Not my interpretation CoinCube.... your bible says so.

It was commented that because it says to pray in the Bible, then you should pray.  I'm just highlighting the inconsistencies in the book by showing how there are many situations in the bible which tell people to do things which people ignore.

If we operate from the premise that the Bible/Torah was given to man by a higher power then it must be the core of a Logically Sound and Fuctionally Complete moral code. It follows that the text must contain tremendous depth and nuance given its brevity.

The interpretation of the words "put to death" as meaning we should murder everyone who does work on the sabbath contradicts the Biblical commandment against murder. Such an interpretation would make the Bible/Torah morally incomprehensible.

Thus our interpretation must be flawed. The most likely source of error lies in a misinterpretation of the phrase "put to death" as I described above.

 

[CoinCube]

The error in your thinking is stated in your first sentence.  You are making the same mistake as Muslims (or any other religious people) make.
Muslims advocating Sharia Law use the same erroneous argument.

If it was higher power responsible for the delivery of the message, all books revealed by that power would just appear instantaneously, translated into 120 languages, all in one instance, at the time of creation.  And all other 'fake message' books would be torn apart by the same power, all at once.

Instead, you have a Bible, written by 40+ authors, over the course of 2500 years.  Same goes for Quran, written decades after the fact.

If it was higher power responsible for it, it would not need people to write it, edit it, and translate it.

Literary works are done by people.  

I can think of three possible conclusions which can follow from your argument above af_newbie

1) There is one true religion with one true holy text and the rest represent creations or additions by man.

2) All religions are entirely man made and thus nothing more than human opinion.

3) Religion is a reflection of truth who's message may or may not be distorted by man's additions or translations but who's fundamental essence remains one of truth.

You choose option #2 and I am still deciding between option #1 and #3. I disagree with your argument that a higher power would destroy 'fake message' books for that would invalidate free will. At a fundamental level religion is about choice.

I agree that some aspect of the Torah/Old Testament are challenging. This is largely due to the fact that we have made significant moral progress over the years and have difficulty relating on any level to what the world was like thousands of years ago. The error of atheism in my opinion is a failure to understand that religion itself was is the fundamental driver of this progress.

Below is an article on the topic if you are interested.

A Jewish Response to Modern Atheism
http://www.oxfordchabad.org/templates/blog/post_cdo/AID/708481/PostID/24832

[QuestionAuthority]

You people are still pretending you can use logic and reason with a bible banger. If they had the ability for reason and logic they wouldn't be bible bangers in the first place.

Oh, and they wouldn't marry their cousins and sisters like Saddam Hussein and Jerry Lee Lewis did.

[BADecker]

But is says to do so in the Bible.... so why do you not follow the bible?

Stats I already answered your question but you may have missed it upthread so I will try one last time.

Let's look at another similar example.

Exodus 31:14
"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

According to your interpretation stats we should execute everyone we see working on Saturday?
Personally I feel that such an action would violate the Biblical prohibition on murder don't you?

What is the actual meaning? I think it means is that if we work 7 days a week we make slaves of ourselves separating ourselves from our families and communities and over the long run doing so is extremely bad for us  even fatal. The Japanese call this Karōshi literally death from work.

The following five minute clip from Prager university covers this in more depth.
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/remember-sabbath

Not my interpretation CoinCube.... your bible says so.

It was commented that because it says to pray in the Bible, then you should pray.  I'm just highlighting the inconsistencies in the book by showing how there are many situations in the bible which tell people to do things which people ignore.

If we operate from the premise that there the Bible/Torah was given to man by a higher power than it must be a Logically Sound and Fuctionally Complete moral code. If that is the case it follows that the text must contain tremendous depth and nuance given its brevity.

The interpretation that the words "put to death" as means that we should murder everyone who does work on the sabbath contradicts the Biblical commandment against murder. Such an interpretation would make the Bible/Torah morally incomprehensible.

Thus it follows that our interpretation is flawed. The most likely source of error lies in an overly simplistic interpretation of the phrase "put to death" as I described above.

 

The error in your thinking is stated in your first sentence.  You are making the same mistake as Muslims (or any other religious people) make.
Muslims advocating Sharia Law use the same erroneous argument.

If it was higher power responsible for the delivery of the message, all books revealed by that power would just appear instantaneously, translated into 120 languages, all in one instance, at the time of creation.  And all other 'fake message' books would be torn apart by the same power, all at once.

Instead, you have a Bible, written by 40+ authors, over the course of 2500 years.  Same goes for Quran, written decades after the fact.

If it was higher power responsible for it, it would not need people to write it, edit it, and translate it.

Literary works are done by people.  

The foundational, basic science of cause and effect shows that God is behind the making of all books and of everything. What we are missing is the why and how He is behind it all.

The point is, God wrote His own Book by causing the writers who actually penned it to write what they did.

The second point is, since God wants freedom for us, while at the same time He wants to remain in control, God actually causes the things that we think we freely do and write, to often happen according to our wishes... and without us even realizing that He is behind it all... until we examine the way things work, scientifically.

[iluvbitcoins]

If it is not science law, it is science guesswork. It might be based on a whole lot of things that seem factual... it might even be based on science law... but if it is science theory, it is not known to be science law, and is, therefore, guesswork.

Using science to find out what is behind the wall is the exact reason I told Fluffer not to do it. Once he had used the science of smashing through the wall, he'd have to go to the trouble of putting the wall back together. It might never be as good as it was originally. Of course, if he is going to remodel anyway, have at the smashing science.

It is not an apple, it is a pear. It might be based on a whole lot of things that seem like an apple.. it might even be an apple...
but if it is an apple, it is not known to be an apple, and is, therefore, a pear.

[BADecker]

....
The point is, God wrote His own Book by causing the writers who actually penned it to write what they did.

The second point is, since God wants freedom for us, while at the same time He wants to remain in control, God actually causes the things that we think we freely do and write, to often happen according to our wishes... and without us even realizing that He is behind it all... until we examine the way things work, scientifically.

So HE decided to 'inspire' 40+ writers over the course of 2500 years!!!  Please, you do not really believe that!!!

Talk about lazy and unsure God.

The real reason this book was written was to provide some guidance on how to manage social interactions.

Around the time when the agricultural revolution started, first cities were formed as people did not have to wonder around for food.
Agricultural revolution allowed for the fast expansion of the population.  This created problems.

It is very easy to manage a group of 40-50 hunters & gatherers.  But it is nearly impossible to manage a group of 5000+ people.
So myths and 'God laws' had to be written down so that the ruling class could reference them and implement the laws by killing the violators.

This helped to reduce crime.  That is the real reason why this book was written, by people for other people.

First you express that God doesn't exist. Then you suggest that I don't really believe that He did something He did. Then you suggest that He is lazy and unsure when you know that He created the universe to operate by cause and effect, which is way beyond anything we can even imagine doing. Then you seem to suggest that He wasn't behind the writing of the Bible at all.

The thing that is amazing is that you, somebody who doesn't seem sure about the existence of God or not, haven't gone out and expressed your own personal volumes of knowledge about the workings of nature and everything else. I mean, a funny farm resident might do just that.

And you can see by the humble videos of Graham Hancock and others, that archaeology shows us that there really were no hunter gatherers thousands of years ago that were any different than ours today in various parts of the world. In addition, there were great technologies in the prehistory, just like there are today, as shown by these same videos. Consider Gobekli Tepe.

Perhaps you should let us know which funny farm you are at, just so we can drop by and say hi sometime.