[ANN][KMD][dPoW] Komodo - An Open, Composable Smart Chain Platform, Secured by B

[flyer88]

Howcome it's wrong?

Because of

[...]
The swapping process will take place after the ICO
[...]

And in the graphic it shows 90% for ICO.

Maybe i missunderstand it.. dont know.

[1715341510]

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[1715341510]

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[1715341510]

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[KomodoPlatform]

So BTCD-Swap is included in the 90%? Your graphic on page1 is wrong then.

Howcome it's wrong?

We will do the BTCD/KMD swaps out of that 90M KMD. The BTCD's have a fixed rate of 0.00532 BTC/BTCD, and they will be counted as if they were invested in the ICO.

-> the BTCD/KMD and BTC/KMD exchange rates depends on how much money we rise. We only know that after the ICO ends.

I though there is a 1 year redeem time?

Yes there is!

When the ICO is over we can calculate how many KMD out of those 90M we will send to those who invested BTC, and then the rest will be left for those who swap BTCD to KMD.

The swapping will begin about two weeks after the ICO ends, and will last for one full year.

Is everything now clear?  

See also: https://steemit.com/komodo/@komodoplatform/komodo-ico-questions-and-answers

[RichardT]

I think it's worth noting here that many coins go 3x on ICO market cap after launch. There are no guarantees of this, of course, and many factors involved. Ethereum and Waves were/are slow burners, others have gone 10x, but seen far more volatility.
Point is that BTCD investors get a 50% bonus, and then get to enjoy any price rise on ICO that comes from launch. If your concerns are solely financial, this seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Good points. We certainly dont want to get into making any specific market predictions, but I think it makes sense to do a few hypothetical "dilution" scenarios.

For example at the max raised, over any other scenario, the BTCD holders arguably are "diluted" the most. Of course if the .0053 price is considered a fair price, there is absolutely no dilution, but there seems to be a sense that some massive price boost would have happened absent the conversion price.

Why?

Probably the general price increases of many other privacy oriented cryptos, you know what I am talking about. OK, so which komodo has a better chance to achieve 50% marketcap of the highest marketcap privacy crypto? The komodo which raised the max or half the max?

It is worth to note that if 50% of the highest marketcap can be reached, then it is indeed more than 3x gain from the max amount.

How likely is this? Well, that is a probability evaluation investors will have to make, especially if the funds raised starts growing toward the max amount.

What chance does komodo which uses the zcash zkp tech secured by bitcoin of achieving half the market cap?

And investors can wait to see a working testnet, working iguana GUI, to get a better handle on the technical risk. BTCD holders further get an entire year before making the conversion decision.

We have tried to make things as fair as possible for everyone and they say a good sign of a fair deal is that everybody is complaining.

I remember you predicted that SuperNET will go 3x to 10x after the ICO ends.  That never happened, not even close.  You tend to be overly optimistic with your predictions.  I do appreciate the optimism, but this paints the wrong picture for investors.

The fact is that the dilution is pretty much a guarantee with this ICO.  The Komodo price potential is not. So you have to understand the skepticism.  The risks clearly outweigh the benefits at this point in time, so no, I don't believe it is a great deal.  

BTCD holders don't really have a choice but to swap in order to minimize loss, because let's face it, who wouldn't swap knowing that BTCD will be dev-less after Komodo launches.  Whereas the BTC investors have a choice of if and when to buy into the ICO, with the risks decreasing as the ICO comes to the close.  So there is definitely an imbalance there.  The only consolation is the revshare asset, which also has no guaranteed price potential, and the possible long term holder bonus.

I'm not trying to whine or complain.  I realize that in any crypto project, the risks always outweigh the possible benefits and that's just something we all have to accept.  But to say that this is a good deal to BTCD holders is inaccurate and misleading.

[KomodoPlatform]

Howcome it's wrong?

Because of

[...]
The swapping process will take place after the ICO
[...]

And in the graphic it shows 90% for ICO.

Maybe i missunderstand it.. dont know.

Ok, maybe the role of BTCD is little unclear when looking at that graphic.   It's just a simple graphic to demonstrate the basic characteristics of the ICO.

Anyway, I hope everything is clear now.

[flyer88]

Its not but who cares? The discussions here or in BTCD-Thread dont lead to anything. The script for that film is written. We can only decide whether we watch it or not.

Btw. It makes a BIG difference for someone who wanna invest if there is 90% of 100Mio for ICO or 50%-70%. And i assume that you and James know that.

Sorry for raging but iam deeply disappointed.

[BitcoinOnFire]

Good points, but lets add missing puzzles to the context:

1. Not only the amount of money predicts success but also how well you manage and spend it. Can you share costs plans? If not, then it's strong argument against trust. Also if you have it but is not justified. Sorry I know from dev point of view is waste of time, but it is pro business approach.

2. As important as funds are current community voices. If many people feels it's not fair then it will propagate like that. That's the nature of things in here.

So maybe there is an option in between  that will:

1. stop BTCD investors complaining
and
2. make them spread good vote for KMD

to make win-win ?

I think it's worth noting here that many coins go 3x on ICO market cap after launch. There are no guarantees of this, of course, and many factors involved. Ethereum and Waves were/are slow burners, others have gone 10x, but seen far more volatility.
Point is that BTCD investors get a 50% bonus, and then get to enjoy any price rise on ICO that comes from launch. If your concerns are solely financial, this seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Good points. We certainly dont want to get into making any specific market predictions, but I think it makes sense to do a few hypothetical "dilution" scenarios.

For example at the max raised, over any other scenario, the BTCD holders arguably are "diluted" the most. Of course if the .0053 price is considered a fair price, there is absolutely no dilution, but there seems to be a sense that some massive price boost would have happened absent the conversion price.

Why?

Probably the general price increases of many other privacy oriented cryptos, you know what I am talking about. OK, so which komodo has a better chance to achieve 50% marketcap of the highest marketcap privacy crypto? The komodo which raised the max or half the max?

It is worth to note that if 50% of the highest marketcap can be reached, then it is indeed more than 3x gain from the max amount.

How likely is this? Well, that is a probability evaluation investors will have to make, especially if the funds raised starts growing toward the max amount.

What chance does komodo which uses the zcash zkp tech secured by bitcoin of achieving half the market cap?

And investors can wait to see a working testnet, working iguana GUI, to get a better handle on the technical risk. BTCD holders further get an entire year before making the conversion decision.

We have tried to make things as fair as possible for everyone and they say a good sign of a fair deal is that everybody is complaining.

[BitcoinOnFire]

Let's then go half way and set max CAP to 10 to 15 k BTC, it covers all levels mentioned below.

What is the minimum quantity of BTC that needs to be raised to make the project viable?

It depends on what level of the project you mean. There are the mission critical parts, like paying for bitcoin fees and notary nodes.

1000 would be enough for a reduced bitcoin notarization frequency and smaller number of notary nodes, but not a lot of development.

5000 would allow to have the fastest bitcoin notarization frequency, all 64 notary nodes and staff up a group of C coders and GUI devs fulltime for some years

10000 would allow having many LP nodes all fully funded for the lowest trading spreads and many liquid trading pairs

Above this would allow a warchest that can make opportunistic trades, arbitrages and other means to generate working capital and set up a very long term organization of the above. Along with some large scale marketing. Of course, even at the lower funds raised we will be doing marketing, but with a limited budget.

[KomodoPlatform]

Its not but who cares? The discussions here or in BTCD-Thread dont lead to anything. The script for that film is written. We can only decide whether we watch it or not.

Btw. It makes a BIG difference for someone who wanna invest if there is 90% of 100Mio for ICO or 50%-70%. And i assume that you and James know that.

Sorry for raging but iam deeply disappointed.

We see your point. We will try to make the ICO as transparent as possible, so everyone understands that BTCD holders can later swap for KMD. The fact that BTCD isn't swapped during ICO makes this thing a lot more complicated.

For now we have added the following to the second comment:

KMD coin distribution

90 million Komodo coins will be distributed to those who participated in the ICO either with BTC or later with BTCD via the swap procedure. In other words, some percentage will go to those who invested with BTC and the remaining portion to those who will swap their BTCD to KMD after the ICO.

The BTCD/KMD and BTC/KMD exchange rates depends on how much money is raised, and they can only be calculated after the ICO has ended.

[BitcoinOnFire]

Plus the current price is a reaction tha predicts sth wrong - dump after ICO, as current "insiders" with funds can get cheapest KMD (BTCD), which they will dump after ICO.

Guess how happy will be new KMD investors + old BTCD investors after such dump happends + several, maybe 12 months of price below ICO?

The fact is that the dilution is pretty much a guarantee with this ICO.  The Komodo price potential is not. So you have to understand the skepticism.  The risks clearly outweigh the benefits at this point in time, so no, I don't believe it is a great deal.  

BTCD holders don't really have a choice but to swap in order to minimize loss, because let's face it, who wouldn't swap knowing that BTCD will be dev-less after Komodo launches.  Whereas the BTC investors have a choice of if and when to buy into the ICO, with the risks decreasing as the ICO comes to the close.  So there is definitely an imbalance there.  The only consolation is the revshare asset, which also has no guaranteed price potential, and the possible long term holder bonus.

I'm not trying to whine or complain.  I realize that in any crypto project, the risks always outweigh the possible benefits and that's just something we all have to accept.  But to say that this is a good deal to BTCD holders is inaccurate and misleading.

[PilotofBTC]

Just one sincere thing James:

I understand that you cannot value BTCD at X10 of current prices for the ico, but the value of 0.0053 seems to me too low. Lots of people have trust in you all this time, buying lots of BTCD upper that level, and I think they deserve a bigger reward from you.

I'm not telling to value BTCD at X10, but the current valuation is too low.

Always remember the ones who have been loyal and benefit them, that's a key rule in finance man...

but why would anyone invest in btc than?

I think you can look at the age of the input. Anything in an address older than the swap announce gets the higher rate. The believers.

It's certainly possible to do this. Not that anyone is really owed anything. Investing in crypto coin is a 100% at risk endeavor.

staking uses up all the coinage, so all active stakers wont have any long coinage.
however, this is a good idea. It would be possible to trace back to how long the funds have been in an address.

Unfortunately I dont have time to work on such analysis, so if people continue to expect me to do everything including this, then it will cause delays. If there is just an analysis, we can consider allocating a long term holder's bonus in the event the ICO sells out.

However, until there is such an analysis made, it is a moot point and without the analysis we cant even evaluate the amount of funds that would be required. The biggest time will be how to allocate rewards based on this long term holding. Clearly I am not the one to determine this.

So, if BTCD people want something like this there needs to be an analysis done, and a proposed way to allocate X amount of bonus. Then and only then can I assess it with the understanding that it has to fit into the ICO process, which means to be triggered at the high end of funds raised.

I can certainly attempt this analysis. However, I would have no idea what to do with the info.

[PilotofBTC]

Can you explain the dPoW fees? For example, you say money is needed for that.

Aren't you talking about Bitcoin tx fees here which current optimum is 70 sat per byte or about 17,920sat per tx which is currently about $.10USD.

thanks

[durerus]

All I know is that JL777 is an honest, highly capable and hardworking guy, that I already made tons of money by investing in his projects and that start-ups sometimes need to sell shares to get funding to make the remaining shares multiples of magnitudes more valuable than their initial percentage in the company. I am in

[yassin54]

All I know is that JL777 is an honest, highly capable and hardworking guy, that I already made tons of money by investing in his projects and that start-ups sometimes need to sell shares to get funding to make the remaining shares multiples of magnitudes more valuable than their initial percentage in the company. I am in

Good choice!! 

[Johnny00]

Do i need to reserve a spot? something I'm a little confused about the below comment from https://steemit.com/komodo/@komodoplatform/komodo-ico-questions-and-answers

How was the BTC/BTCD exchange rate calculated?

This exchange rate was determined by adding a 50% bonus to the daily closing price average of August. That is the previously mentioned 0.00532074 BTC per BTCD.

However, because of the way ICO is structured,it would be profitable to sell your BTCD at the 0.0053 rate in o[/b[/u]][/font] in order to take advantage of the early bird bonus (for example, 25% in the first day). Thus the BTCD/BTC exchange rate will probably be lower at the start of the ICO then it will at the end.

The following was calculated based on the BTC bonus:

Oct. 15 - 25% bonus = 0.00425 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 16-22 - 20% bonus = 0.00443 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 23-29 - 15% bonus = 0.00462 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 30-Nov 5 - 10% bonus = 0.00483 BTC/BTCD
Nov 6-12 - 5% bonus = 0.00506 BTC/BTCD
Nov 13-20 - 0% bonus = 0.00532 BTC/BTCD[/b]

how can you sell early at that rate? you can't unless market dictates. so for BTCD holders, best to hold until after the ICO. then convert BTCD to .00532 BTC then to komodo correct?

[tyz]

This exchange rate was determined by adding a 50% bonus to the daily closing price average of August. That is the previously mentioned 0.00532074 BTC per BTCD.

Is the BTCD exchange rate fix, even when the Bitcoin price rises strongly (like at the moment)? If so, then it would be a good deal to buy more BTCD before the exchange begins if BitcoinDark price is not rising equally to the BTC price.

[KomodoPlatform]

Can you explain the dPoW fees? For example, you say money is needed for that.

Aren't you talking about Bitcoin tx fees here which current optimum is 70 sat per byte or about 17,920sat per tx which is currently about $.10USD.

thanks

Good question! This is a topic we haven't really touched on yet. More information will be in the coming whitepaper and in the articles we will write.

The notary nodes will have to create a large multi-signature transaction, which will cost 0.001 - 0.01 BTC depending on the transaction fees. These transactions have to be regularly done, so there will be an unbroken record of the Komodo PoS blockchain in the Bitcoin blockchain.

How do these notary nodes pay all these tx fees? At first they will get paid from the capital we raise in the ICO. Ultimately, the system will become self-sustaining as more and more projects will be using Komodo dPoW or the blockchain in general.

The initial cost is estimated to be 500 BTC per year for the high end scenarios. So 500 BTC would be paid to 64 notary nodes who would support the dPoW system. In a high end scenario this amount would represent around 2 % of our capital.

If we don't raise enough funds then there are numerous ways to bring down the costs of dPoW. For example, the number of notary nodes could be decreased or the parameters changed.

We are currently working on the whitepaper, which will explain this in more detail.

[PilotofBTC]

Can you explain the dPoW fees? For example, you say money is needed for that.

Aren't you talking about Bitcoin tx fees here which current optimum is 70 sat per byte or about 17,920sat per tx which is currently about $.10USD.

thanks

Good question! This is a topic we haven't really touched on yet. More information will be in the coming whitepaper and in the articles we will write.

The notary nodes will have to create a large multi-signature transaction, which will cost 0.001 - 0.01 BTC depending on the transaction fees. These transactions have to be regularly done, so there will be an unbroken record of the Komodo PoS blockchain in the Bitcoin blockchain.

How do these notary nodes pay all these tx fees? At first they will get paid from the capital we raise in the ICO. Ultimately, the system will become self-sustaining as more and more projects will be using Komodo dPoW or the blockchain in general.

The initial cost is estimated to be 500 BTC per year for the high end scenarios. So 500 BTC would be paid to 64 notary nodes who would support the dPoW system. In a high end scenario this amount would represent around 2 % of our capital.

If we don't raise enough funds then there are numerous ways to bring down the costs of dPoW. For example, the number of notary nodes could be decreased or the parameters changed.

We are currently working on the whitepaper, which will explain this in more detail.

I think you are overestimating the tx fee be a factor of 10... I would expect fees to be .0001 - .001. and using .001 as an example 500BTC would cover 500,000 txs which is more than the entire BTC height right now. Is a node going to generate more than 1 tx per BTC block? I don't see how that would be needed.

I look forward to a white paper, because those sound like crazy high fees.

[KomodoPlatform]

Do i need to reserve a spot? something I'm a little confused about the below comment from https://steemit.com/komodo/@komodoplatform/komodo-ico-questions-and-answers

How was the BTC/BTCD exchange rate calculated?

This exchange rate was determined by adding a 50% bonus to the daily closing price average of August. That is the previously mentioned 0.00532074 BTC per BTCD.

However, because of the way ICO is structured,it would be profitable to sell your BTCD at the 0.0053 rate in o[/b[/u]][/font] in order to take advantage of the early bird bonus (for example, 25% in the first day). Thus the BTCD/BTC exchange rate will probably be lower at the start of the ICO then it will at the end.

The following was calculated based on the BTC bonus:

Oct. 15 - 25% bonus = 0.00425 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 16-22 - 20% bonus = 0.00443 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 23-29 - 15% bonus = 0.00462 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 30-Nov 5 - 10% bonus = 0.00483 BTC/BTCD
Nov 6-12 - 5% bonus = 0.00506 BTC/BTCD
Nov 13-20 - 0% bonus = 0.00532 BTC/BTCD[/b]

how can you sell early at that rate? you can't unless market dictates. so for BTCD holders, best to hold until after the ICO. then convert BTCD to .00532 BTC then to komodo correct?

Yes, the market will set the price, which should be close to those prices.

Let's take a simple example: mr Jon is a Komodo enthusiast who is looking to put 1 BTC into the Komodo ICO. He wants to get the biggest bonus he can to get as much KMD as he can! Jon has two choices: 1) buy on Oct 15th with 25% bonus, which would get him 1.25 BTC worth of KMD at the end, or 2) buy BTCD at the current market price, and then swap it to KMD. Thus Jon eagerly goes to coinmarketcap.com and searches for BTCD price. He finds the BTCD price is only 0.003853 BTC/BTCD !

Jon quickly calculates that with 1 BTC he can buy 260 BTCD's! Then he remembers that the Komodo team had fixed the rate to 0.00532 BTC/BTCD. Thus he gets 260BTCD * 0.00532 BTC/BTCD = 1.38 BTC worth of KMD

Buy with BTC on Oct. 15: you get 1.25 BTC worth of KMD
Buy BTCD today and swap: you get 1.38 BTC worth of KMD

Of course you would have to factor in the extra time: if you don't buy BTCD today, you could use your capital elsewhere and make a profit. On the other hand, if you buy BTCD today you will also get the extra revenue asset!

It's a free market and when people realize this the price should be near 0.00425 BTC/BTCD on Oct 15... or even today...?  

 

[marcus1986]

Really interesting project. I'm waiting for ICO start. Good luck devs!

[bitkokos2]

Another question.
What does BTCD has to do with ICO?
If someone who does not have any BTCD and wishes to buy KMD during ICO, will he have to buy BTCD and swap it for KMD?


When we take into account the bonuses during ICO, we get:

Oct. 15 -           25% bonus  = 0.00425 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 16-22 -      20% bonus  = 0.00443 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 23-29 -      15% bonus  = 0.00462 BTC/BTCD
Oct. 30-Nov 5 - 10% bonus = 0.00483 BTC/BTCD
Nov 6-12 -         5% bonus   = 0.00506 BTC/BTCD
Nov 13-20 -       0% bonus   = 0.00532 BTC/BTCD