Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[xhomerx10]

I don't get it.  Now that they accept Bitcoin, APMEX is out of tulips.



 The mother's day tulip silver rounds are sold out as well.
https://www.apmex.com/product/149460/1-oz-silver-colorized-round-apmex-mothers-day-tulips

 Damn.

[realr0ach]

you think that they would let you play their game?

I'm not trapped in god's prison with the jews.  The jews are trapped inside it with me.

[AlexGR]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things, especially when the annual mining production is ~900mn oz.

It'd be great if silver went up in price due to some kind of cornering, but 130m oz is really not that much. The US mint alone, does something like 50mn ounces per year in silver eagles - and it's just one mint, minting one coin.

[HairyMaclairy]

There was a lot more silver in the world in 1980 and 1998 than there is today, meaning that JPMorgan’s accumulation is much more of an accomplishment than previous silver acquisitions.

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?  Did the Arabs send it all to the moon?

[gentlemand]

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?  Did the Arabs send it all to the moon?

That guy ate it.

[realr0ach]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things

It wasn't 130.  People's estimates vary, but the number 400 million is tossed around a lot, while that article states 675 million ounces.  Your numbers for how much above ground exists is always way off as well.  You never take into account how much is used by industry vs how much is mined either.  There's only something like $40 billion dollars above ground that can be brought to market, but most of those people won't sell anyway.  Why sell the base of Exter's pyramid?  There's no point.  Metals have way stronger hodlers than BTC does.

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?

It was squandered in things like cheap Chinese trinkets or 1980's electronics and not recovered or recycled.  If the price skyrockets, some industries will obviously switch to other materals, but so little is used in most products it's not that big of a deal even if it did go up 10x or more for the ones that can't.  Just like how even though gold has an average cost of something like over $1000 to drag it out of the ground, people still use it for completely idiotic things like coating USB connectors for keyboards and mice.  If $2000 an ounce gold doesn't stop people from doing that, $300-$600 silver isn't going to stop it from being used either.

[AlexGR]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things

130 was the lower bound, not upper bound.  Your numbers for how much above ground exists is always way off. You also never take into account how much is used by industry vs how much is mined either.  There's only something like $40 billion dollars above ground that can be brought to market, but most of those people won't sell anyway.  Why sell the base of Exter's pyramid?  There's no point.

I tend to see the above-ground quantities instead of investor-grade silver, because metals can always be repurposed given sufficient financial incentive. Scrapping from technological components like gold-plated fingers, gold nanowire in integrated circuits and palladium in smd capacitors, is a prime example of tiny quantities that are getting recycled... obviously no-one bothers at 15$ per ounce but things change at 300-500-1000$ - even for micron-level plating (!)

The macro-object scrap market is also affected, with stuff like candlesticks, big mirrors, dining stuff (dishes, forks, spoons, etc) - where say a dish that weighs 20 ounces, at 300$ per oz, is now 6k USD. Or the whole spoon/knife/fork set might then cost 15-20k... Or entire bags of junk silver coins that would suddenly be in the 6-figure range. Is that going to happen? I wish it did but I don't think it will. And it's not even an unrealistic scenario if we factor the 50$ prices in the Hunt-squeeze-era and adjust it for inflation to today's prices to something like 200-300$, yet I don't see it happening without something dramatic like a country issuing their national currency on silver. But that would be their own undoing, since at that moment their national debt would also be repayable in ...silver. And while you can repay old bonds by printing new digits in a computer server of the central bank, you can't print silver to repay bond holders.

[sirazimuth]

https://themerkle.com/capital-one-refuses-to-let-customers-buy-cryptocurrency-from-any-exchange/
final whimperings of fiat demise

ha! quite interesting the article mentions ...

"credit unions may be the best option for any US customer looking to get their hands on Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency capable of being purchased with fiat currency..."

...as that's how yours truly has been auto buying BTC on a weekly basis for past 3 years...
at what has turned out to be a very handsome ROI  I might add...

[realr0ach]

AlexGR, you don't seem to understand the fact that paper money, especially fiats issued as debt, always implode and then people enter the vaults to square up the existing debts and claims vs a new peg.  You either balance the existing debts and claims vs a new peg, or anyone that bought a $500,000 house and paid with a NINJA loan and still owes $499,999 gets a free house.  

Without balancing the existing debts and claims vs metals as the new peg, and thus vastly inflating the price of the metals, you would also have complete disintegration of most nations into some type of 500 BC lawless plunder and shooting because there is no consensus on who owns what, etc etc.  It doesn't matter if you think some people will make too much money by holding metals or whatever, it will happen because it's the only possible thing that can happen.

The numbers I stated were only a 20-40x for silver.  You seem to make believe that's an illogical and huge amount when people just bought bitcoins for $1 each and then resold them for a +20,000x a few years later.  The only difference is, it's a hell of a lot safer going all-in on silver than btc.

[bonipper]

Getting back to bitcoin.

The Koreans aren't happy about an official suggesting they close all exchanges.

They have filed more than 4,000 petitions against the move during January. One with over 30,000 signature asks for the Minister of Justice to quit.

Bullish.

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-crackdown-talk-draws-ire-supporters-politicians-south-korea/

The public backlash against the proposed move appears to be accelerating. On the Korean president's Blue House website, more than 4,000 petitions have been filed related to "virtual currencies" since Jan. 10.

One petition asking the Minister of Justice to step down in light of the move received more than 30,000 signatures on its own. According to Reuters, one petition alone has attracted more than 100,000 signatures and the website itself became inaccessible at one point due to excessive traffic.

[JayJuanGee]

https://themerkle.com/capital-one-refuses-to-let-customers-buy-cryptocurrency-from-any-exchange/
final whimperings of fiat demise

ha! quite interesting the article mentions ...

"credit unions may be the best option for any US customer looking to get their hands on Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency capable of being purchased with fiat currency..."

...as that's how yours truly has been auto buying BTC on a weekly basis for past 3 years...
at what has turned out to be a very handsome ROI  I might add...

It does seem that in the near future some traditional financial institutions are going to wise up to allow some cryptos to be acquired through their services.  Seems likely that they would start with bitcoin; however, the quantity of FUD out their regarding the supposed benefits of crypto "diversification," might cause them to offer other non-bitcoin cryptos (as well).

[HairyMaclairy]

I could be wrong but I just don’t think anyone you gcares about precious metals anymore. I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars. Maybe if they were a prepper whack job but that’s a pretty niche community

[bitserve]

In a surprising turn of events Kraken has just transfered me the Lumens corresponding to the last airdrop (from many months ago). It is some significant money at current valuation.

Everyone that had Bitcoin on Kraken at the time of the snapshot (around summer) should check their Kraken account for a nice surprise.

[realr0ach]

I could be wrong but I just don’t think anyone cares about precious metals anymore. I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars.

READ my post.  Do you not understand the existing debts and claims have to be squared up against a new peg?  Exactly what peg do you think it's going to be if not gold and silver?  There's a reason central banks hoard metals.  It doesn't take a rocket science to know what the existing debts and claims will be rebalanced against.  The banks always do stuff like this in the past as well.  Like if you're in a country and your money turns to worthless while you owe a huge mortgage, the banks try to claim you now owe them the same amount of money except in gold or something instead of paying them in devalued, worthless paper.  Is that in any way legit, legal, or close the contract you signed up for? No, but it's going to happen anyway.

AlexGR, you don't seem to understand the fact that paper money, especially fiats issued as debt, always implode and then people enter the vaults to square up the existing debts and claims vs a new peg.  You either balance the existing debts and claims vs a new peg, or anyone that bought a $500,000 house and paid with a NINJA loan and still owes $499,999 gets a free house.  

Without balancing the existing debts and claims vs metals as the new peg, and thus vastly inflating the price of the metals, you would also have complete disintegration of most nations into some type of 500 BC lawless plunder and shooting because there is no consensus on who owns what, etc etc.  It doesn't matter if you think some people will make too much money by holding metals or whatever, it will happen because it's the only possible thing that can happen.

The numbers I stated were only a 20-40x for silver.  You seem to make believe that's an illogical and huge amount when people just bought bitcoins for $1 each and then resold them for a +20,000x a few years later.  The only difference is, it's a hell of a lot safer going all-in on silver than btc.

[xhomerx10]

In a surprising turn of events Kraken has just transfered me the Lumens corresponding to the last airdrop (from many months ago). It is some significant money at current valuation.

 I got some too... Dang.  I thought they came from a secret admirer

[sirazimuth]

I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars.

they would if there was a facebook /twatter /snapperchat thingy link on their homepage with a million likes....

[realr0ach]

The inside of Russia's vault and the London vaults look mostly identical.  There's a whole lot of gold, and also a whole lot of silver.  This is what the existing claims and debts will be re-pegged against.  Much of that metal will also be melted and distributed in coinage because the people who didn't buy metals before the debt bubble implosion will want to take delivery of assets after revaluation anyway.

[HairyMaclairy]

I don’t see why anything has to be squared against any peg.   Governments gave up backing currency against precious metals long ago.

[DPoS2]

Governments gave up backing currency against precious metals log ago.

The precious metals that back their fiat come out of a gun

[DPoS2]

Getting back to bitcoin.

The Koreans aren't happy about an official suggesting they close all exchanges.

They have filed more than 4,000 petitions against the move during January. One with over 30,000 signature asks for the Minister of Justice to quit.

Bullish.

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-crackdown-talk-draws-ire-supporters-politicians-south-korea/

The public backlash against the proposed move appears to be accelerating. On the Korean president's Blue House website, more than 4,000 petitions have been filed related to "virtual currencies" since Jan. 10.

One petition asking the Minister of Justice to step down in light of the move received more than 30,000 signatures on its own. According to Reuters, one petition alone has attracted more than 100,000 signatures and the website itself became inaccessible at one point due to excessive traffic.

that just means (((they))) will let NK nuke Seoul if the pleebs demand their financial freedoms