Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[gentlemand]

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?  Did the Arabs send it all to the moon?

That guy ate it.

[realr0ach]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things

It wasn't 130.  People's estimates vary, but the number 400 million is tossed around a lot, while that article states 675 million ounces.  Your numbers for how much above ground exists is always way off as well.  You never take into account how much is used by industry vs how much is mined either.  There's only something like $40 billion dollars above ground that can be brought to market, but most of those people won't sell anyway.  Why sell the base of Exter's pyramid?  There's no point.  Metals have way stronger hodlers than BTC does.

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?

It was squandered in things like cheap Chinese trinkets or 1980's electronics and not recovered or recycled.  If the price skyrockets, some industries will obviously switch to other materals, but so little is used in most products it's not that big of a deal even if it did go up 10x or more for the ones that can't.  Just like how even though gold has an average cost of something like over $1000 to drag it out of the ground, people still use it for completely idiotic things like coating USB connectors for keyboards and mice.  If $2000 an ounce gold doesn't stop people from doing that, $300-$600 silver isn't going to stop it from being used either.

[AlexGR]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things

130 was the lower bound, not upper bound.  Your numbers for how much above ground exists is always way off. You also never take into account how much is used by industry vs how much is mined either.  There's only something like $40 billion dollars above ground that can be brought to market, but most of those people won't sell anyway.  Why sell the base of Exter's pyramid?  There's no point.

I tend to see the above-ground quantities instead of investor-grade silver, because metals can always be repurposed given sufficient financial incentive. Scrapping from technological components like gold-plated fingers, gold nanowire in integrated circuits and palladium in smd capacitors, is a prime example of tiny quantities that are getting recycled... obviously no-one bothers at 15$ per ounce but things change at 300-500-1000$ - even for micron-level plating (!)

The macro-object scrap market is also affected, with stuff like candlesticks, big mirrors, dining stuff (dishes, forks, spoons, etc) - where say a dish that weighs 20 ounces, at 300$ per oz, is now 6k USD. Or the whole spoon/knife/fork set might then cost 15-20k... Or entire bags of junk silver coins that would suddenly be in the 6-figure range. Is that going to happen? I wish it did but I don't think it will. And it's not even an unrealistic scenario if we factor the 50$ prices in the Hunt-squeeze-era and adjust it for inflation to today's prices to something like 200-300$, yet I don't see it happening without something dramatic like a country issuing their national currency on silver. But that would be their own undoing, since at that moment their national debt would also be repayable in ...silver. And while you can repay old bonds by printing new digits in a computer server of the central bank, you can't print silver to repay bond holders.

[sirazimuth]

https://themerkle.com/capital-one-refuses-to-let-customers-buy-cryptocurrency-from-any-exchange/
final whimperings of fiat demise

ha! quite interesting the article mentions ...

"credit unions may be the best option for any US customer looking to get their hands on Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency capable of being purchased with fiat currency..."

...as that's how yours truly has been auto buying BTC on a weekly basis for past 3 years...
at what has turned out to be a very handsome ROI  I might add...

[realr0ach]

AlexGR, you don't seem to understand the fact that paper money, especially fiats issued as debt, always implode and then people enter the vaults to square up the existing debts and claims vs a new peg.  You either balance the existing debts and claims vs a new peg, or anyone that bought a $500,000 house and paid with a NINJA loan and still owes $499,999 gets a free house.  

Without balancing the existing debts and claims vs metals as the new peg, and thus vastly inflating the price of the metals, you would also have complete disintegration of most nations into some type of 500 BC lawless plunder and shooting because there is no consensus on who owns what, etc etc.  It doesn't matter if you think some people will make too much money by holding metals or whatever, it will happen because it's the only possible thing that can happen.

The numbers I stated were only a 20-40x for silver.  You seem to make believe that's an illogical and huge amount when people just bought bitcoins for $1 each and then resold them for a +20,000x a few years later.  The only difference is, it's a hell of a lot safer going all-in on silver than btc.

[bonipper]

Getting back to bitcoin.

The Koreans aren't happy about an official suggesting they close all exchanges.

They have filed more than 4,000 petitions against the move during January. One with over 30,000 signature asks for the Minister of Justice to quit.

Bullish.

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-crackdown-talk-draws-ire-supporters-politicians-south-korea/

The public backlash against the proposed move appears to be accelerating. On the Korean president's Blue House website, more than 4,000 petitions have been filed related to "virtual currencies" since Jan. 10.

One petition asking the Minister of Justice to step down in light of the move received more than 30,000 signatures on its own. According to Reuters, one petition alone has attracted more than 100,000 signatures and the website itself became inaccessible at one point due to excessive traffic.

[JayJuanGee]

https://themerkle.com/capital-one-refuses-to-let-customers-buy-cryptocurrency-from-any-exchange/
final whimperings of fiat demise

ha! quite interesting the article mentions ...

"credit unions may be the best option for any US customer looking to get their hands on Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency capable of being purchased with fiat currency..."

...as that's how yours truly has been auto buying BTC on a weekly basis for past 3 years...
at what has turned out to be a very handsome ROI  I might add...

It does seem that in the near future some traditional financial institutions are going to wise up to allow some cryptos to be acquired through their services.  Seems likely that they would start with bitcoin; however, the quantity of FUD out their regarding the supposed benefits of crypto "diversification," might cause them to offer other non-bitcoin cryptos (as well).

[HairyMaclairy]

I could be wrong but I just don’t think anyone you gcares about precious metals anymore. I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars. Maybe if they were a prepper whack job but that’s a pretty niche community

[bitserve]

In a surprising turn of events Kraken has just transfered me the Lumens corresponding to the last airdrop (from many months ago). It is some significant money at current valuation.

Everyone that had Bitcoin on Kraken at the time of the snapshot (around summer) should check their Kraken account for a nice surprise.

[realr0ach]

I could be wrong but I just don’t think anyone cares about precious metals anymore. I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars.

READ my post.  Do you not understand the existing debts and claims have to be squared up against a new peg?  Exactly what peg do you think it's going to be if not gold and silver?  There's a reason central banks hoard metals.  It doesn't take a rocket science to know what the existing debts and claims will be rebalanced against.  The banks always do stuff like this in the past as well.  Like if you're in a country and your money turns to worthless while you owe a huge mortgage, the banks try to claim you now owe them the same amount of money except in gold or something instead of paying them in devalued, worthless paper.  Is that in any way legit, legal, or close the contract you signed up for? No, but it's going to happen anyway.

AlexGR, you don't seem to understand the fact that paper money, especially fiats issued as debt, always implode and then people enter the vaults to square up the existing debts and claims vs a new peg.  You either balance the existing debts and claims vs a new peg, or anyone that bought a $500,000 house and paid with a NINJA loan and still owes $499,999 gets a free house.  

Without balancing the existing debts and claims vs metals as the new peg, and thus vastly inflating the price of the metals, you would also have complete disintegration of most nations into some type of 500 BC lawless plunder and shooting because there is no consensus on who owns what, etc etc.  It doesn't matter if you think some people will make too much money by holding metals or whatever, it will happen because it's the only possible thing that can happen.

The numbers I stated were only a 20-40x for silver.  You seem to make believe that's an illogical and huge amount when people just bought bitcoins for $1 each and then resold them for a +20,000x a few years later.  The only difference is, it's a hell of a lot safer going all-in on silver than btc.

[xhomerx10]

In a surprising turn of events Kraken has just transfered me the Lumens corresponding to the last airdrop (from many months ago). It is some significant money at current valuation.

 I got some too... Dang.  I thought they came from a secret admirer

[sirazimuth]

I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars.

they would if there was a facebook /twatter /snapperchat thingy link on their homepage with a million likes....

[realr0ach]

The inside of Russia's vault and the London vaults look mostly identical.  There's a whole lot of gold, and also a whole lot of silver.  This is what the existing claims and debts will be re-pegged against.  Much of that metal will also be melted and distributed in coinage because the people who didn't buy metals before the debt bubble implosion will want to take delivery of assets after revaluation anyway.

[HairyMaclairy]

I don’t see why anything has to be squared against any peg.   Governments gave up backing currency against precious metals long ago.

[DPoS2]

Governments gave up backing currency against precious metals log ago.

The precious metals that back their fiat come out of a gun

[DPoS2]

Getting back to bitcoin.

The Koreans aren't happy about an official suggesting they close all exchanges.

They have filed more than 4,000 petitions against the move during January. One with over 30,000 signature asks for the Minister of Justice to quit.

Bullish.

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-crackdown-talk-draws-ire-supporters-politicians-south-korea/

The public backlash against the proposed move appears to be accelerating. On the Korean president's Blue House website, more than 4,000 petitions have been filed related to "virtual currencies" since Jan. 10.

One petition asking the Minister of Justice to step down in light of the move received more than 30,000 signatures on its own. According to Reuters, one petition alone has attracted more than 100,000 signatures and the website itself became inaccessible at one point due to excessive traffic.

that just means (((they))) will let NK nuke Seoul if the pleebs demand their financial freedoms

[Elwar]

Governments gave up backing currency against precious metals log ago.

The precious metals that back their fiat come out of a gun

Someone needs to create a new alt...Warcoin. Decentralized war. No more centralization of war...more wars, more efficient, more deaths...more coins with Warcoin.

[bonipper]

Getting back to bitcoin.

The Koreans aren't happy about an official suggesting they close all exchanges.

They have filed more than 4,000 petitions against the move during January. One with over 30,000 signature asks for the Minister of Justice to quit.

Bullish.

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-crackdown-talk-draws-ire-supporters-politicians-south-korea/

The public backlash against the proposed move appears to be accelerating. On the Korean president's Blue House website, more than 4,000 petitions have been filed related to "virtual currencies" since Jan. 10.

One petition asking the Minister of Justice to step down in light of the move received more than 30,000 signatures on its own. According to Reuters, one petition alone has attracted more than 100,000 signatures and the website itself became inaccessible at one point due to excessive traffic.

that just means (((they))) will let NK nuke Seoul if the pleebs demand their financial freedoms

No, I beg to differ, it's definitely bullish for bitcoin.

[realr0ach]

I don’t see why anything has to be squared against any peg.   Governments gave up backing currency against precious metals log ago.

RE-READ the post.  How do you NOT see why?  Debt based currency requires infinite growth to not collapse.  It is lended into existence and requires interest to be paid just for the money to exist.  If the money supply is $100 for example, and there's also $5 required to be paid in interest, paying off the original $100 that was lended into existence reduces the money supply to 0 still leaves you with $5 debt.  

It's always been nothing more than a Jewish accounting trick to try and enslave people with unpayable debt.  This is why all religions banned it.  You are still living in the stone age and this evil cult has not yet been defeated that's been doing the same scam for thousands of years.  It is, however, a very fragile scam that easily implodes without the presence of infinite growth.  Since it's designed to implode without infinite growth (and trust me, growth is over due to peak working age demographics in 1st world countries and peak energy production), the debt bubble implodes and everything paper and digital blows up.

Now, as to why existing debts have to be re-pegged to a new asset, if you just let the debt bubble implode and take it's normal course, the money supply essentially becomes zero.  All pensions, savings, and retirements blow up, you will not be able to buy things from a grocery store, mass disputes over who owns what.  There will basically be cannibals in the street eating each other and you might have a new dark ages.  Once all this happens, gold and silver will become the only form of money used anyway.

The act of revaluing gold and silver to a much higher price essentially exstinguishes the debt bubble so that you do not have this dark ages collapse.  And it's not like they weren't going to become the only money around anyway if you let a new dark ages happen.  So the bankers generally wait till the absolute last second of some 2008-like event and do the revaluation when the collapse occurs because they want their scam to last as long as possible.  

Many of these evil jews also make believe that they can not only stop their scam from imploding, but also expand the scam even larger into a digital only, cashless society slave system. Who bitcoin was created by, or whether it was created by western intelligence is irrelevant.  It is allowed to exist by the western banking powers to try and condition people into this digital only slave system.  The second this debt bubble implodes and they're forced to step in again just like 2008, they will be forced to either revalue metals right then and there, or attempt to initiate some type of false flag event and new digital only slave system at that time.

You will not see this event coming.  It could happen a year from now, it could happen tomorrow morning.  Whatever happens, nobody is going to trust the new currency and metals will reclaim the throne either by the bankers themselves being forced to revalue them, or nobody trusting anything else after their last digital IOUs went to zero.

[RoomBot]

I know this is off topic, but it appears someone spammed the BCH mempool, recently. It appears some of the pools are electing to only mine 1MB blocks, others 2MB blocks and a couple the full 8 MB blocks.  

https://cash.coin.dance/blocks
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/cash/#24h

What's the point of having big blocks when one of the mystery miners will only mine 1MB blocks?

It's relevant, methinks!

BCH Peeps spamming the BTC mempool affect BTC price & movement, so turnabout is fair play.

Especially after enduring all the Bcash & other altcoin garbage posted on this BTC thread...