Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Karartma1]

In between all this short term bearish posts and sentiments, I will make a Bitcoin market cap prediction. Something I don't do often but I feel Bitcoin currently trades at an attractive discount:

Bitcoin today has a market cap <250 billion. Q3 2019 I expect the market cap to be >500 billion.

Please quote me for future reference.

Done and done.

I do hope you are right on this since it looks like if the bears hybernate the market we are going back to 2014/15 patterns. I mean good to buy more but 2017 bull run was amazing to say the least

[d_eddie]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.

Signing, as jojo69 and erre explained, is the process of adding your key to the transaction. The key is the "owner's seal of approval" for each address that is being charged (only 1 address for the simple, most common transactions).

When you add the key, it gets mixed up with the transaction by crypto magic, so that anyone can easily check the owner's seal, without being able to look at it (in other words: unable to steal it). So a signed transaction is safe to broadcast (that's not just "send"- it's "send for the world to see").

How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

While you sign, the key is exposed. If someone gets hold of it, they can sign any transaction in your name (with ALL your coins from that key's address). So the signing process is best done offline, in a safe box, which a phone generally isn't. What's more, if the key just lives in the phone (which it must if you can sign from it!), when the phone gets compromised you risk losing every single satoshi on it.

[jojo69]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

two things;

You actually think a phone is ever turned off?

And no, an online computer is no more secure than a phone...that is what the offline computer is for.

[Arriemoller]

Bitcoin price is being manipulated indeed. I'm sure absolutely sure that the price will do what known as ''The leap of the dead cat''. That mean it will go up near the historical maximum price and then go brutally below 10K $. Meanwhile not happens, the price will oscilate between 12K and 18K$.

LOL, "the leap of the dead cat" is also known as a "dead cat bounce" in English.

[erre]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

[conspirosphere.tk]

The WO thread today:

[Wekkel]

We got Bitcoin at record highs above $10k and anyone in Alts saw his estate rise twofold this December/January alone and you speak about a bear market?

I am confused  

[d_eddie]

We got Bitcoin at record highs above $10k and anyone in Alts saw his estate rise twofold this December/January alone and you speak about a bear market?

I am confused  

We're spoiled brats, that's what.

[jojo69]

We got Bitcoin at record highs above $10k and anyone in Alts saw his estate rise twofold this December/January alone and you speak about a bear market?

I am confused  

the moon...it has mountains and valleys...who knew?

[Arriemoller]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.

Signing, as jojo69 and erre explained, is the process of adding your key to the transaction. The key is the "owner's seal of approval" for each address that is being charged (only 1 address for the simple, most common transactions).

When you add the key, it gets mixed up with the transaction by crypto magic, so that anyone can easily check the owner's seal, without being able to look at it (in other words: unable to steal it). So a signed transaction is safe to broadcast (that's not just "send"- it's "send for the world to see").

How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

While you sign, the key is exposed. If someone gets hold of it, they can sign any transaction in your name (with ALL your coins from that key's address). So the signing process is best done offline, in a safe box, which a phone generally isn't. What's more, if the key just lives in the phone (which it must if you can sign from it!), when the phone gets compromised you risk losing every single satoshi on it.

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send. Or if I am going to empty my wallet I might sweep it. What's the problem with that? If wallets aren't safe how are we ever going to be able to buy things? And as I said, my phone with my stash is only on wile I'm doing transactions. The only way to get to my coins would be to steal my phone and know my password. Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.
You guys are way too paranoid.

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send. Or if I am going to empty my wallet I might sweep it. What's the problem with that? If wallets aren't safe how are we ever going to be able to buy things? And as I said, my phone with my stash is only on wile I'm doing transactions. The only way to get to my coins would be to steal my phone and know my password. Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.
You guys are way too paranoid.

[d_eddie]

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send.

When you hit send, you are signing without knowing. Without a valid signature, no coin moves!

Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.

The seed is even more powerful: it's the key to the keymaker shop. With the seed, ALL the keys of ALL the addresses in that wallet are accessible. The whole wallet, not a single address, can go bust.

You guys are way too paranoid.

It's not that we are paranoid. It's that they are after us!!

[Arriemoller]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

Model trains and coin collecting are my other hobbies, so I guess I'm safe.
Thank you for trying to explain what it is, but as I have mentioned before that doesn't help if I don't know how to do it. It would be a lot more helpful if you just said something like "it's a way of sending coins without hitting the send button live, and you do it by klicking tab so and so and type that and that and then do this and then that, done. The technical mumbo jumbo does not do it for me, sorry but thanks for trying. As I said before, we just don't speak the same language.

[Arriemoller]

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send.

When you hit send, you are signing without knowing. Without a valid signature, no coin moves!

Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.

The seed is even more powerful: it's the key to the keymaker shop. With the seed, ALL the keys of ALL the addresses in that wallet are accessible. The whole wallet, not a single address, can go bust.

You guys are way too paranoid.

It's not that we are paranoid. It's that they are after us!!

LOL

And yes I know that the seed is the master key to the whole wallet.

[mymenace]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

Model trains and coin collecting are my other hobbies, so I guess I'm safe.
Thank you for trying to explain what it is, but as I have mentioned before that doesn't help if I don't know how to do it. It would be a lot more helpful if you just said something like "it's a way of sending coins without hitting the send button live, and you do it by klicking tab so and so and type that and that and then do this and then that, done. The technical mumbo jumbo does not do it for me, sorry but thanks for trying. As I said before, we just don't speak the same language.

try
bitcoin.org
the basics of everything


asking questions on a technical board will get you technical answers

[Arriemoller]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

Model trains and coin collecting are my other hobbies, so I guess I'm safe.
Thank you for trying to explain what it is, but as I have mentioned before that doesn't help if I don't know how to do it. It would be a lot more helpful if you just said something like "it's a way of sending coins without hitting the send button live, and you do it by klicking tab so and so and type that and that and then do this and then that, done. The technical mumbo jumbo does not do it for me, sorry but thanks for trying. As I said before, we just don't speak the same language.

try
bitcoin.org
the basics of everything


asking questions on a technical board will get you technical answers

But this isn't a technical board, it's a wall speculation board.

[mymenace]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

Model trains and coin collecting are my other hobbies, so I guess I'm safe.
Thank you for trying to explain what it is, but as I have mentioned before that doesn't help if I don't know how to do it. It would be a lot more helpful if you just said something like "it's a way of sending coins without hitting the send button live, and you do it by klicking tab so and so and type that and that and then do this and then that, done. The technical mumbo jumbo does not do it for me, sorry but thanks for trying. As I said before, we just don't speak the same language.

try
bitcoin.org
the basics of everything


asking questions on a technical board will get you technical answers

But this isn't a technical board, it's a wall speculation board.

Ok So what does the wall speculation have to do with ...."What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?"....

I give up

[Arriemoller]

Thanks anyway too you all for trying to explain. I have never signed and I really don't see the need for it in my future, it seems like overkill to me.
I'll just stay ignorant and move my coins the old fashioned way.

[Arriemoller]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

Model trains and coin collecting are my other hobbies, so I guess I'm safe.
Thank you for trying to explain what it is, but as I have mentioned before that doesn't help if I don't know how to do it. It would be a lot more helpful if you just said something like "it's a way of sending coins without hitting the send button live, and you do it by klicking tab so and so and type that and that and then do this and then that, done. The technical mumbo jumbo does not do it for me, sorry but thanks for trying. As I said before, we just don't speak the same language.

try
bitcoin.org
the basics of everything


asking questions on a technical board will get you technical answers

But this isn't a technical board, it's a wall speculation board.

Ok So what does the wall speculation have to do with ...."What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?"....

I give up

Nothing really, it's totally of topic, but that's what makes this thread so great, all the of topicness that lights up our visits here.

Besides, the guy who originally asked the question about moving coins from a paper wallet seemed more confused about all this than me, so I don't think this little tutorial session was in any way bad for him.

[Arriemoller]

And why is no one amazed that we have 29 more forks to claim?
I'm blown away.

[erre]

Thanks anyway too you all for trying to explain. I have never signed and I really don't see the need for it in my future, it seems like overkill to me.
I'll just stay ignorant and move my coins the old fashioned way.

You are signing every time you move your coins. Sorry for have been harsh, but your unwillingness and  proudness of not knowing how txs works got me mad. That's like claiming on a train forum that how trains works it doesn't matter untill they move, I suppose.