Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

All I'm saying is there are single points of failure and it is much easier for Tether to become worthless than it is for bitcoin which is backed by a global economy and the laws of thermodynamics or whatever.

I agree with this.  But I don’t see the catalyst for Tether failure.  Saying it is a fractional reserve currency isn’t enough to bring it down without some loss of confidence in its ability to act as a reserve currency imho. 

[FractalUniverse]

...
 The only difference is that BFX has a US$10,000 minimum to keep out the noobs.

I would really like to know how many new funded accounts they got after last week's opening. that could give some clues

[thrax]

All it takes for Tether to become completely worthless is one guy decides to seize the account at TetherBank

Do they even really have bank accounts? I'm really confused on how the Bitfinex/Tether thing even works. Don't understand why Tethers are never destroyed. Aren't there some days when the fiat withdrawals at Bitfinex exceeds the deposits? Very perplexing. Surely people haven't been depositing $100 million per day this week at Finex, with the recent correction. There can't be that many bargain hunters. Especially when none of their customers are supposed to be from the US. Is it a pain to deposit USD into Bitfinex if I am from Norway? I'm clueless.

It's not just bitfinex anymore that uses tether. There is poloniex, bittrex, and maybe more. I have a polo account and am all bitcoin in it, unless I see a quick trade.

Yes, but you cannot deposit fiat into Polo or Bittrex that I am aware of. Could be mistaken. So the Tethers that they have there originated from a different source. I don't think the $100 Million tethers being created daily are going to any other exchange except Bitfinex. Kraken also uses Tethers and lets you deposit fiat. However, I don't think the freshly minted Tethers are going their either.

I have personally moved Tether from Bitfinex to other exchanges.  It’s useful during a market panic. 

How fast are transfers?

[conspirosphere.tk]

The only difference is that BFX has a US$10,000 minimum to keep out the noobs.

Another difference is that Stamp won't tokenize the theft of your funds, but may actually refund you.

[bones261]

...
 The only difference is that BFX has a US$10,000 minimum to keep out the noobs.

I would really like to know how many new funded accounts they got after last week's opening. that could give some clues

I really wish BFX/Tether would give us a clue on how the accounting works at all. Is there any useful information anywhere? It all looks like magical monopoly money. It appears that someone can just create Tethers without proof of anything, except having the right Omni private key?

[HairyMaclairy]

All it takes for Tether to become completely worthless is one guy decides to seize the account at TetherBank

Do they even really have bank accounts? I'm really confused on how the Bitfinex/Tether thing even works. Don't understand why Tethers are never destroyed. Aren't there some days when the fiat withdrawals at Bitfinex exceeds the deposits? Very perplexing. Surely people haven't been depositing $100 million per day this week at Finex, with the recent correction. There can't be that many bargain hunters. Especially when none of their customers are supposed to be from the US. Is it a pain to deposit USD into Bitfinex if I am from Norway? I'm clueless.

It's not just bitfinex anymore that uses tether. There is poloniex, bittrex, and maybe more. I have a polo account and am all bitcoin in it, unless I see a quick trade.

Yes, but you cannot deposit fiat into Polo or Bittrex that I am aware of. Could be mistaken. So the Tethers that they have there originated from a different source. I don't think the $100 Million tethers being created daily are going to any other exchange except Bitfinex. Kraken also uses Tethers and lets you deposit fiat. However, I don't think the freshly minted Tethers are going their either.

I have personally moved Tether from Bitfinex to other exchanges.  It’s useful during a market panic. 

How fast are transfers?

It’s Omni protocol which is built on Bitcoin. So I think it’s just a well funded Bitcoin transfer.  Speed is consistent with that. Costs US$25 each time.  

[HairyMaclairy]

I bet if you added up the order books of all the crypto exchanges, you would get more than 21 million bitcoins.

Edit:   BFX USD/BTC pair has 10,350 BTC in order book.   Which is a single pair on a single exchange (although it is probably aggregating with Bitstamp through their arbitrage bot). 

[jojo69]

...
 The only difference is that BFX has a US$10,000 minimum to keep out the noobs.

I would really like to know how many new funded accounts they got after last week's opening. that could give some clues

I really wish BFX/Tether would give us a clue on how the accounting works at all. Is there any useful information anywhere? It all looks like magical monopoly money. It appears that someone can just create Tethers without proof of anything, except having the right Omni private key?

The opacity with regards to an audit is the most troubling thing about the whole tether phenomenon.  I got into cripto to get away from this fedlike bullshit.

[HairyMaclairy]

An audit would be extremely easy and take about 10 minutes.  

So two possibilities:  

1.  A proper audit would attract the attention of the US authorities again and cause problems so they can’t do it.

2.  It’s a fractional reserve.

I think 2 is more likely.

They was supposed to be an audit this month. Has anyone seen it?  

Edit:  I have reread the September audit report here:  https://tether.to/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Final-Tether-Consulting-Report-9-15-17_Redacted.pdf

Based on a quick skim, it looks legit to me.  Which suggests that Tether is real and is USD backed.  So maybe we should all relax.

[babanana]

I have also moved sizable amount tether from POLO to Bittrex and to other exchanges. I see no problem there.

[HairyMaclairy]

Hmmm

Just found something that says they are going to put Tether on lighting.

A US dollar denominated crypto on Lightning.   That’s extremely powerful.  Arguably that destroys Ripple and Litecoin.

[thrax]

Hmmm

Just found something that says they are going to put Tether on lighting.

A US dollar denominated crypto on Lightning.   That’s extremely powerful.  Arguably that destroys Ripple and Litecoin.

Is lighting instant, or does it require confirmations?

[HairyMaclairy]

It takes 1 - 2 seconds and it is irrevocable. 

So no waiting for blocks and as good as instant.

[bones261]

Hmmm

Just found something that says they are going to put Tether on lighting.

A US dollar denominated crypto on Lightning.   That’s extremely powerful.  Arguably that destroys Ripple and Litecoin.

I still trust Litecoin more. At least it's coin creation is based on proof of work and not blind trust like Ripple and Tether. Plus, Litecoin definitely will be implementing lightning and be engaging in atomic swaps. I enjoy the concept of atomic swaps because you can trade coins P2P without relying on a middleman exchange.

[HairyMaclairy]

Hmmm

Just found something that says they are going to put Tether on lighting.

A US dollar denominated crypto on Lightning.   That’s extremely powerful.  Arguably that destroys Ripple and Litecoin.

I still trust Litecoin more. At least it's coin creation is based on proof of work and not blind trust like Ripple and Tether. Plus, Litecoin definitely will be implementing lightning and be engaging in atomic swaps. I enjoy the concept of atomic swaps because you can trade coins P2P without relying on a middleman exchange.

You could use Tether as a pricing mechanism and still pay / receive payment in litecoin.  Which does away with the volatility problem.

[thrax]

Hmmm

Just found something that says they are going to put Tether on lighting.

A US dollar denominated crypto on Lightning.   That’s extremely powerful.  Arguably that destroys Ripple and Litecoin.

I still trust Litecoin more. At least it's coin creation is based on proof of work and not blind trust like Ripple and Tether. Plus, Litecoin definitely will be implementing lightning and be engaging in atomic swaps. I enjoy the concept of atomic swaps because you can trade coins P2P without relying on a middleman exchange.

Ripple sometimes starts malfunctioning under stress. I remember complaints that a node went offline and the transactions it was processing were frozen until it went back online.

Bitcoin and litecoin don't suffer from that centralised weakness.

[yefi]

I bet if you added up the order books of all the crypto exchanges, you would get more than 21 million bitcoins.

Edit:   BFX USD/BTC pair has 10,350 BTC in order book.   Which is a single pair on a single exchange (although it is probably aggregating with Bitstamp through their arbitrage bot). 

That's the largest BTC market and it's only one in 1,624 of current supply. How many exchanges do you think there are exactly?

[sirazimuth]

All I'm saying is there are single points of failure and it is much easier for Tether to become worthless than it is for bitcoin which is backed by a global economy and the laws of thermodynamics or whatever.

I agree with this.  But I don’t see the catalyst for Tether failure.  Saying it is a fractional reserve currency isn’t enough to bring it down without some loss of confidence in its ability to act as a reserve currency imho.  

I think we should ask roach, he is an expert in these matters...and he knows  things about silver and gold and such, and added bonus he can school us on
the  jews and cucks, so theres that ...

[d_eddie]

Feeble weekend half pump starting?

[HairyMaclairy]

I bet if you added up the order books of all the crypto exchanges, you would get more than 21 million bitcoins.

Edit:   BFX USD/BTC pair has 10,350 BTC in order book.   Which is a single pair on a single exchange (although it is probably aggregating with Bitstamp through their arbitrage bot). 

That's the largest BTC market and it's only one in 1,624 of current supply. How many exchanges do you think there are exactly?

That’s one pair on BFX.  BFX has 30 BTC pairs.  I can’t be bothered looking at all the order books so let’s assume the total BTC on order books is 3x the USD pair.

So 30,000 BTC on the books, or one in 541.  Except it’s one in 400 due to lost coins.  Hard to tell.  Maybe that is reasonable.