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Question: Highest price we'll see in 2022:
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25526540 times)
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jojo69
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January 19, 2018, 04:13:59 PM

My views on alts have been evolving.

Just last night my SO ran across some rumor about Amazon adopting BTC and asked me about it.  I had to reply that Bitcoin was not a good fit for retail at this time.

Absent LN, and we have to admit, it has been rather a long time coming, AND raises legitimate concerns about trust and decentralization, one coin can not be all things to all people.

Bitcoin is very secure and decentralized, while being slow, expensive and annoying.  I am good with that.  I like it that way, but I have had to admit that this does open market space for a solution that makes different compromises that favor speed and low fees.

Of course, if they were to bust out LN tomorrow and it was everything people hope that would change things, but there is a finite window of opportunity for that to happen.
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January 19, 2018, 04:31:20 PM
Last edit: January 19, 2018, 04:41:59 PM by Torque

Bitcoin is very secure and decentralized, while being slow, expensive and annoying.  I am good with that.  I like it that way, but I have had to admit that this does open market space for a solution that makes different compromises that favor speed and low fees.

You're missing one thing though. If Amazon isn't integrating Bitcoin payments now, then they sure as hell aren't going to do it for an altcoin. Speed and low fees alone isn't the deciding factor. Because if it was, Amazon would have jumped on Bitcoin integration all the way back in 2012 or 2013 when fees were lower.

The reason is political. Major banks through Visa, MC, and PayPal have exclusive contractual obligations with major merchants, and they can change the terms of deals or even make it politically 'difficult' for Amazon to integrate what they perceive as a 'competitor' payment system.

It's also substantial marketcap size and stability, and extremely low volatility. No crypto has achieved these things yet.
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January 19, 2018, 04:41:43 PM

The Amazon rumor was just the catalyst for the conversation, the point remains that BTC is not, at this time, a good fit for retail.


As far as the big A goes, I would be quite surprised if "Amazoncoin" were not in development.
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January 19, 2018, 04:42:00 PM

Just to let folk know, as I haven't spotted this mentioned, you can claim another shitcoin today: BCX. It's going for around 3.5% per BTC on gate.io currently. Dumped all mine. Instructions for sending the coins to exchange can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinAirdrops/comments/7rfo5c/how_to_claim_your_bcx/
Torque
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January 19, 2018, 04:44:33 PM

The Amazon rumor was just the catalyst for the conversation, the point remains that BTC is not, at this time, a good fit for retail.

As far as the big A goes, I would be quite surprised if "Amazoncoin" were not in development.

Agree.

Although you can buy pretty much whatever you want from Overstock.com with crypto. Even with BCash and Litecoin. It's not an Amazon, but they have enough wide selection of goods for the average person. I wouldn't be surprised if/when Overstock.com integrates their own Lightning Network.
jojo69
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January 19, 2018, 04:56:10 PM

re Overstock

I have, thus far, failed to be impressed by their prices.

And, having grown up in the inter-mountain West, I have a strong disdain for the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints...so yeah, no.
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January 19, 2018, 04:56:58 PM

Just to let folk know, as I haven't spotted this mentioned, you can claim another shitcoin today: BCX. It's going for around 3.5% per BTC on gate.io currently. Dumped all mine. Instructions for sending the coins to exchange can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinAirdrops/comments/7rfo5c/how_to_claim_your_bcx/

These free shitcoins are brilliant for topping up your bitcoin stash.
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January 19, 2018, 05:01:59 PM

re Overstock

I have, thus far, failed to be impressed by their prices.

And, having grown up in the inter-mountain West, I have a strong disdain for the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints...so yeah, no.
Bitpanda works quite well for Amazon, at least in Europe. And it's much quicker than going through fiat directly, although granted they do charge quite a margin if I recall correctly.

Seconding the Amazoncoin sentiment by the way, Bezos is usually on top of the game with these kinds of developments. Perhaps he'll just end up acquiring Bitpay or something like that though.
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January 19, 2018, 05:33:09 PM

This ad is still running Tongue


( https://i.imgur.com/YsRfFG0.png )

Very promissing indeed... (instead of promising)... meaning your bitcoins will be missing after all is said and done...



Seeeeeee?Huh??

They DO pay out!!!!! 




for advertising.

Now back to our regularly scheduled Moon shot.

BTC
Karartma1
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January 19, 2018, 05:43:51 PM

Why don't you guys have an adblocker in the first place?
Anyway, I found an interesting comment on twitter from Garrick Hileman
https://twitter.com/GarrickHileman/status/954086068827185158
One underreported aspect of why South Korean authorities are cracking down on cryptocurrency trading: loss of job motivation when you see your peers making 10-100x speculating on cryptocurrencies over what you make at your day job.
 Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed
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January 19, 2018, 05:57:40 PM

Motivation or not, there won't really be anywhere close to enough jobs to go around in the future. So I'd worry about AI and automation rather than temporally limited investment opportunities.
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January 19, 2018, 06:04:24 PM

My views on alts have been evolving.

Just last night my SO ran across some rumor about Amazon adopting BTC and asked me about it.  I had to reply that Bitcoin was not a good fit for retail at this time.

Absent LN, and we have to admit, it has been rather a long time coming, AND raises legitimate concerns about trust and decentralization, one coin can not be all things to all people.

Bitcoin is very secure and decentralized, while being slow, expensive and annoying.  I am good with that.  I like it that way, but I have had to admit that this does open market space for a solution that makes different compromises that favor speed and low fees.

Of course, if they were to bust out LN tomorrow and it was everything people hope that would change things, but there is a finite window of opportunity for that to happen.


So what?

You are coming off with some BIG blocker talking points and trying to suggest that bitcoin has value only if it can be used for retail right now?

There is no artificial narrow window opportunity that you assert.  With the passage of time bitcoin is going to grow and grow and grow, so who gives a ratt's ass about if you can buy coffee with it today at this particular moment?

You can quote me in posterity if you like, but I would be a bit surprised if in 5 years buying coffee would be impractical with bitcoin or some affiliated means - but even if bitcoin remains impractical for buying coffee in 5 years, so fucking what?  I believe that bitcoin still has decent odds of being at least 50% more valuable than today, and also likely the dominant crypto... if it is NOT then, I will likely also have moved over to that other bitcoin killer crypto that took its place. 

TLDR: I doubt that investing in bitcoin is betting on the wrong horse, even if bitcoin is currently not practical at this time to use to buy coffee or other small retail.
jojo69
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January 19, 2018, 06:18:57 PM


So what?

You are coming off with some BIG blocker talking points and trying to suggest that bitcoin has value only if it can be used for retail right now?

I said nothing of the sort

Quote
There is no artificial narrow window opportunity that you assert.

That is a matter of opinion.  I fully understand that the LN devs need to take their time and absolutely get this right, but the longer it takes the more opportunity there is for an alt to seize the, currently unserved, retail use case.

Quote
With the passage of time bitcoin is going to grow and grow and grow, so who gives a ratt's ass about if you can buy coffee with it today at this particular moment?

Certainly not me, and I have stated as much on a number of occasions.  As I said above, I support cores choices to prioritize security and decentralization at the expense of speed and thrift.

Quote
You can quote me in posterity if you like, but I would be a bit surprised if in 5 years buying coffee would be impractical with bitcoin or some affiliated means - but even if bitcoin remains impractical for buying coffee in 5 years, so fucking what?  I believe that bitcoin still has decent odds of being at least 50% more valuable than today, and also likely the dominant crypto... if it is NOT then, I will likely also have moved over to that other bitcoin killer crypto that took its place.  

TLDR: I doubt that investing in bitcoin is betting on the wrong horse, even if bitcoin is currently not practical at this time to use to buy coffee or other small retail.

I agree with all this and am in full agreement with holding the line on BTCs store of value use case.  That said, the retail use case WILL be served, and soon, if not by LN then by a well engineered alt with a strong dev team.  As time drags on I will be keeping my eye out for that.
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January 19, 2018, 06:20:05 PM

Even if Bitcoin never managed to become an efficient tool for remittance and retail it will still remain valuable and keep growing for at least as long as no other crypto replaces it as the default base pair in trading alts. This also means that it'll grow at least proportionally to the overall crypto market for the time being.
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January 19, 2018, 06:21:44 PM

2 more days sideways and we´ll see a drop. Thats what happens most of the time when we go sideways after a dump :/
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January 19, 2018, 06:22:13 PM

Also, the window of opportunity that jojo noted is a very real threat to Bitcoin's position at the very top. Competition is fierce and the market moves fast. All it takes is a superior coin and the right marketing/hype. Granted that's very difficult to pull off (as it would require resources well beyond what ICOs raise), but it's not something that is unthinkable.
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January 19, 2018, 06:22:36 PM

2 more days sideways and we´ll see a drop. Thats what happens most of the time when we go sideways after a dump :/
My fiat is still ready for $6-8k.
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January 19, 2018, 06:33:53 PM

Buenos dias Bitcoinland.

Still consolidating after this week's N. Korea panic, I see... currently $11340USD/$14125CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

It looks like we're forming a nice little ascending triangle. Hopefully we'll be heading back up soon.

January, bah.
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January 19, 2018, 06:40:00 PM

Buenos dias Bitcoinland.

Still consolidating after this week's N. Korea panic, I see... currently $11340USD/$14125CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

It looks like we're forming a nice little ascending triangle. Hopefully we'll be heading back up soon.

January, bah.


Have you found any bitcoin ATMs in Mexico you can use to buy the dip yet? I found twelve in Mexico from a google.
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THE NEXT 2.4 YEARS ARE CRITICAL🍄💊


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January 19, 2018, 07:17:32 PM

2 more days sideways and we´ll see a drop. Thats what happens most of the time when we go sideways after a dump :/
I don't think so
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