Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fluidjax]

This is the test to determine the real Bitcoin, it's really very simple:

I run old original Bitcoin software that was released before the 2017 forks, both hard and soft.
I use that software to make a transaction.
The chain upon which that transaction is accepted is the real Bitcoin.

So... they're both the real Bitcoin!?

Explain pls.

[JimboToronto]

whoa JimboToronto you and yours safe indoors?
Rosewater?

No problem. The ghastly weather ended last week. We're finally getting springlike weather (high teens Celsius) with sunny skies.

Just got home from the local bar and see we've apparently properly broken $9k. Let's hope it holds and we're ready to get back to 5 digits soon.

Now to sizzle up a nice ribeye.

Life is good. Go Bitcoin go.

[JayJuanGee]

I bought the pump.

I think I may be done trading Bitcoin until late 2018.  

I really doubt that.   

I mean, I believe that you bought the pump, but there hardly seems to be any scenario in which a trade would not be advisable until late 2018 - unless you believer that bitcoin is going to merely go UP in some gradual progression between now and the end of 2018 - which seems like less than 5% odds.

One thing that is nearly certainly guaranteed in bitcoin, is that we don't know what the fuck is going to happen, which is almost the same as saying volatility is going to happen, which means trading to protect ur selfie.   

I’m happy with my current position.  I don’t want to buy above $9200 this year.  So long as the price stays above $9200 then I am not going to buy or sell.  At least I say that now.  Whether I can stick to it we will see.

O.k.  Fair enough regarding the buy side, for now, especially in the event that BTC prices were to stay above $9,200 (which surely is not close to any kind of a given)....

But even with that assumption (that the bottom is in and no more meaningful purchase opportunties below $9200), let's think through price scenarios such as if BTC prices were to go up from here (ONLY)...

I could understand if BTC prices were to slowly go up from here to $13,500, perhaps (that's nearly 50% up from here), or something like that (maybe you are looking at the $17k territory for possible consideration of actions that you might take?(that's 85% up from here)), then perhaps, no reason to trade in those kinds of scenarios of 50% up or 85% up? 

Other scenarios are quicker ups and downs in the BTC price and overshooting (and we know bitcoin does those kinds of extreme volatility things regularly), and in those scenarios (as long as the price stays below a certain amount), don't you have to do something or to have some kind of a plan in mind? 

To make such an earlier bold statement, you must have a certain level of confidence in a certain range of scenarios that sound like stability and more or less UP only from here.  Pray share.  Inquiring minds (or at least mine mind) wants to know your rest of 2018 pie in the sky bitcoin vision. 

[Toxic2040]

Just a pretty chart...no garnish. Meeting resistance and catching support. Steady as she goes.   

[afbitcoins]

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever.

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

#1 Ok, here is an argument for you then. When bcash forked, the market made a choice and declared bitcoin, bitcoin when the value stayed in bitcoin and did not transfer to bcash

#2 Here is another one, bcash changed the difficulty adjustment mechanism (block #478559) before bitcoin activated segwit (block #481824) and was therefore a fork of bitcoin at that instant. Then, even if you want to say segwit is not bitcoin, bitcoin forked from itself at block #481824 and then won the fork with itself and became bitcoin

Did I dumb it down enough for you?

I mean I hate doing this because it's getting really boring and I feel like everyone here should have just understood what I was saying by now but:

#1 So it's a democratic thing? Because I can tell you some of the value did go to bcash. So the fact that more went to core is what made it "the real bitcoin"? So if 51% had gone to bcash you would have reluctantly agreed that it was the real bitcoin? Even though ver's ideas are garbage? What if bcash slowly gains more and more and gets to over 50% in the future? Does it then become "the real bitcoin". If the value bounces back and forth back and forth between 49% and 51% relative to each other does the "real bitcoin" change every day as the value changes? Even if I don't go this route and accept your reason. Even if I allow that "the market decided" why does the market get to decide? You still have to say why. You can't just declare it. It just so happens that I agree with the markets decision however If ver's garbage vision for bitcoins future had won out in market capitalization after the fork I wouldn't have accepted it as "the real bitcoin" just because it had slightly more market cap. I would be here saying that core was the real bitcoin in my opinion even though it was slightly less capitalized.

#2 If that is a real reason, than you would have to say that you would call ver's version of bitcoin "the real bitcoin" if the roles had been reversed and core forked first instead of cash forking first. Are you really prepared to stand behind that?

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

On a lighter node. Screw lambos. I'm want one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfgbHvuYRU

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here 

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

[Ibian]

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am not defending Ver and his trash coin. I am as adamantly opposed to BCash as anyone here. All I'm saying is that any argument that you make that one bitcoin is objectively "the real bitcoin" breaks down and fails. It's like saying my mac and cheese recipe is the one true recipe and only mac and cheese that is maid with my recipe is REAL mac and cheese.

Whatever my wallet supports is tha reeeeul bitcoin.

[HairyMaclairy]

Looks like Bcash lol crew is in a full on panic.  The pump must be costing them a fortune.

[JayJuanGee]

[[edited out]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here  

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

nonsense.

You are suggesting that there is some kind of equality in forks.  There is only one bitcoin, and that thing called bcash was a renegade fork that ends up serving as an ongoing and persistent attack vector on bitcoin - the real one.  

Get the fuck out of here trying to assert that bcash is bitcoin or that bcash is the real bitcoin or anything close to that, even though bcash happens to copy bitcoin from both branching off and its continued lack of innovations, so they are engaged in ongoing stealing from bitcoin.

Regarding bitcoin forking at around the same time as the renegade bcash hardfork , you got your history wrong.  If you recall there was a process for obtaining consensus in bitcoin and the process was followed, which caused locking in of the segwit consensus and thereafter there was another period before the actual new consensus code was activated... a soft fork and voluntary and backward compatible, too.


If you also recall bcash was a hardfork that went into effect on a kind of emergency basis and was driven by a small group of folks who were disgruntled about the segwit2x newyork agreement not going the way that they had hoped.. which if you recall the segwit2x and ny agreement was also a kind of scam and an attack attempt on bitcoin both in terms of attempting to change the blocksize limit but also attempting to change bitcoin's governance.. which failed.

[El duderino_]

Sorry if I came across a bit rude.

Np mate. It's all good.

Roger went full retarded.

Agreed...

I dont mind alt-coins but this is pure fraud.

As much as I wish it weren't the case, as much as I wish I could say "my bitcoin is the bitcoin and that is a fact" the question of which bitcoin is "the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

[Ibian]

I'm less enthused about sailboats than I was. Getting a new motor boat in the water this year, way faster and more convenient to get around, and they tend to have better indoor space. This one certainly does.

[HairyMaclairy]

I guarantee these Bcash lol trolls were shorting Bitcoin thinking $9k was the top because of the Bcash lol pump. And now the pump is slipping at 0.16 and these trolls are getting REKT.



I would panic too if I was about to lose $10 million.  

[HairyMaclairy]

Former CFTC head says ETH and XRP may be securities as a single organization is behind them.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-23/ether-ripple-may-be-securities-former-cftc-head-gensler-says

By that logic, Bcash lol is also a security as it is driven by Bitmain.

[afbitcoins]

[[edited out]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here  

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

nonsense.

You are suggesting that there is some kind of equality in forks.  There is only one bitcoin, and that thing called bcash was a renegade fork that ends up serving as an ongoing and persistent attack vector on bitcoin - the real one.  

Get the fuck out of here trying to assert that bcash is bitcoin or that bcash is the real bitcoin or anything close to that, even though bcash happens to copy bitcoin from both branching off and its continued lack of innovations, so they are engaged in ongoing stealing from bitcoin.

Regarding bitcoin forking at around the same time as the renegade bcash hardfork , you got your history wrong.  If you recall there was a process for obtaining consensus in bitcoin and the process was followed, which caused locking in of the segwit consensus and thereafter there was another period before the actual new consensus code was activated... a soft fork and voluntary and backward compatible, too.


If you also recall bcash was a hardfork that went into effect on a kind of emergency basis and was driven by a small group of folks who were disgruntled about the segwit2x newyork agreement not going the way that they had hoped.. which if you recall the segwit2x and ny agreement was also a kind of scam and an attack attempt on bitcoin both in terms of attempting to change the blocksize limit but also attempting to change bitcoin's governance.. which failed.

Hey JJG, I trust your recollections better than my own of the events of that fork. I'm not suggesting equality of the forks, my point was on a more philosophical level. What is bitcoin anyway? If it is how the protocol was originally conceived then it doesn't exist anymore as I see it.

One might argue that core had deviated more from the initial protocol than bcash did so is less close to the original bitcoin. I mean stripping witness data from blocks is a massive change no matter how you colour it. However I accept that the community as a whole has backed cores direction and bestowed the brand on that.

I shouldn't be lumped in with bcash anyway. Yes I do have some in my portfolio along with selected other alts and of course bitcoin itself but if I had to choose the best digital cash, it isn't bcash 

[Torque]

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever.

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

The "real Bitcoin" is the one that the majority of end users agree on through belief and mutual consensus of Bitcoin's fundamental attributes and philosophical values.

That's it. Period. The majority of end users decides. It literally is a popularity contest.

It has nothing to do with what Ver thinks, what miners think, what brokers/exchanges think, what developers think, what features, which has the biggest block size or fastest transactions, which was "first", which one "closest to Satoshi's original vision", which is objectively "better", or better for humanity, better for the planet/ecosystem, or any of that other garbage.

[Phil_S]

I see green! More green!

[Gachapin]

Let's see how Karpeles does it, this time...  


https://www.cnet.com/news/mt-gox-bitcoin-exchange-former-ceo-karpeles-lands-new-job/


At least he seems to have overcome his Frappacino addiction..

[HairyMaclairy]

I am emotionally ready for $9300.

[ChinkyEyes]

Me when I woke up today and saw it was over 9000!!!

[HairyMaclairy]

I bought the pump.

I think I may be done trading Bitcoin until late 2018.  

I really doubt that.   

I mean, I believe that you bought the pump, but there hardly seems to be any scenario in which a trade would not be advisable until late 2018 - unless you believer that bitcoin is going to merely go UP in some gradual progression between now and the end of 2018 - which seems like less than 5% odds.

One thing that is nearly certainly guaranteed in bitcoin, is that we don't know what the fuck is going to happen, which is almost the same as saying volatility is going to happen, which means trading to protect ur selfie.   

1.  I think we have bottomed for 2018.  

2.  I think Bitcoin will stay $8k or higher for the rest of the year.

3.  I think we will make a new ATH this year.  

4.  As you know I like to buy on the way up and sell on the way down.  But I try to restrict it to macro moves.  The next macro move I would be prepared to sell on the way down would be November / December 2018.

5.  I think the crypto winter has been dispelled but I will watch very carefully in June for confirmation.  

6. I am all in from my trading reserves as of $9200.  That was my last buy.  I have other money elsewhere for other purposes but that is irrelevant for Bitcoin.

[TERA2]

Bitcoin has risen 47% from it's low. Whoop de doo. How can you be happy about that, when, meanwhile, ETH and XRP are up 100%, dog is up 120%, and BeeCash is up 155%? What the hell? So infuriating.