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Question: When will bitcoin reach the top of this bull market (i.e. when will it moon)?
Topped at $13,880 in June - 8 (5.8%)
H2 2019 - 15 (10.8%)
H1 2020 - 26 (18.7%)
H2 2020 - 26 (18.7%)
H1 2021 - 11 (7.9%)
H2 2021 - 27 (19.4%)
H1 2022 - 6 (4.3%)
H2 2022 - 4 (2.9%)
H1 2023 - 0 (0%)
H2 2023 - 2 (1.4%)
2024 or Later - 14 (10.1%)
Total Voters: 139

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21286389 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (102 posts by 19 users deleted.)
HairyMaclairy
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April 24, 2018, 04:40:47 AM

If you have any doubt there are 100,000 nodes which will tell you which is the real Bitcoin.  

So if ver's fork had more nodes it would be the real bitcoin? Even though his ideas are total garbage?

That’s what they call a necessary but not sufficient condition.
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JayJuanGee
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April 24, 2018, 04:41:20 AM
Merited by marcus_of_augustus (10)

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am not defending Ver and his trash coin. I am as adamantly opposed to BCash as anyone here. All I'm saying is that any argument that you make that one bitcoin is objectively "the real bitcoin" breaks down and fails. It's like saying my mac and cheese recipe is the one true recipe and only mac and cheese that is maid with my recipe is REAL mac and cheese.

You are trying to be too objectively analytical, which breaks down into retardedness.

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April 24, 2018, 04:44:53 AM

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.
Adding any kind of qualifier after "bitcoin" to mean BTC/XBT is unpopular round here. OK, call it religion if you will. In order to minimize conflict, it is advised to use BTC to designate the bitcoin that needs no additional words to be designated. There will be fewer terminological scuffles.
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April 24, 2018, 04:49:53 AM

If you have any doubt there are 100,000 nodes which will tell you which is the real Bitcoin.  

So if ver's fork had more nodes it would be the real bitcoin? Even though his ideas are total garbage?

That’s what they call a necessary but not sufficient condition.

So define your method of determining at which fork is "the real bitcoin" and show how it is in some way an objectively valid metric rather than just your opinion. If you throw on a half dozen other criteria than why are they the criteria that get to be used to determine which is "real"?

And answer me this. What if ver and his monstrosity totally took over the market and bitcoin core became a small group of hard core devotees? What if ver's monstrosity became even more centralized than our wildest nightmares but it still gained more and more support and almost everyone in the world was going along with it in every way including node count and what other metrics you want to use and everyone everywhere was calling it bitcoin? Would it then be the real bitcoin? Even though it was more like visa than the original vision of bitcoin? Or would the small group of core users be the real bitcoin?

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.
Adding any kind of qualifier after "bitcoin" to mean BTC/XBT is unpopular round here. OK, call it religion if you will. In order to minimize conflict, it is advised to use BTC to designate the bitcoin that needs no additional words to be designated. There will be fewer terminological scuffles.
I'm only doing it inside of this specific context, to make the argument more clear. I normally just say BTC to mean bitcoin core because, as I stated earlier, it is my opinion that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin.
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April 24, 2018, 04:53:22 AM

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

#1 Ok, here is an argument for you then. When bcash forked, the market made a choice and declared bitcoin, bitcoin when the value stayed in bitcoin and did not transfer to bcash

#2 Here is another one, bcash changed the difficulty adjustment mechanism (block #478559) before bitcoin activated segwit (block #481824) and was therefore a fork of bitcoin at that instant. Then, even if you want to say segwit is not bitcoin, bitcoin forked from itself at block #481824 and then won the fork with itself and became bitcoin

Did I dumb it down enough for you?
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April 24, 2018, 04:53:59 AM

I’m not your fetch and carry bitch.   We all know what Bitcoin is.  
JayJuanGee
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April 24, 2018, 04:54:58 AM

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin.

The fact that you feel some kind of necessity to use the term "bitcoin core" to describe bitcoin demonstrates that you lack understanding about what is bitcoin.  So, either take your dumb ass back to r/btc or stop going there in order that you might become less confused.   Tongue Cheesy

All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

Who gives a shit about your opinion, especially when your opinion is filled with retarded nonsense?

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it?

There you go again, with your "bitcoin core" nonsense.   You sound really confused, except that you are likely engaging in this nonsense talk on purpose while you are pleading some form of innocent objectivity, and "I am with you guys, except... blah blah blah... "  What boloney!   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash.

There you go a third time, with your stupid-ass "bitcoin core" descriptor...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  Get the fuck out of here with your attempt at "equivalencies."  whine whine whine.. bitcoin has changed consensus algorithm... bullshit...

Do you understand that bcash is an attack vector?  Oh no, you want to proclaim that it has some kind of equal footing...  Roll Eyes

We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

You are making shit up.

Segwit came into being in bitcoin through consensus in the middle of 2017.  Bcash recognized that they fucked up in their plot to attempt to get segwit2x passed in bitcoin and to change bitcoin's governance, so they performed a renegade hardfork with bcash, and they were going to perform a second hardfork with segwit2x, and some of that plot seemed to fall apart, which caused more emphasis on bcash as the primary bitcoin attack vector  and means to attempt to confuse folks into supporting such renegade snake oil nonsense  that you are here pumping and attempting to cause confusion over, while claiming innocence   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.
JayJuanGee
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April 24, 2018, 04:58:10 AM

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am starting to see the wisdom in this simple statement... fuck.. even rosewater is making a lot of sense... omg.. omg..  Cheesy Cheesy
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April 24, 2018, 05:01:41 AM

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am starting to see the wisdom in this simple statement... fuck.. even rosewater is making a lot of sense... omg.. omg..  Cheesy Cheesy

Yeah, on a person note. Maybe everybody that doesn't like me can bite me. How'd that be?
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April 24, 2018, 05:02:21 AM

We only have 6 days left for my poll choice to be correct, can we step on it?
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April 24, 2018, 05:03:39 AM

trolls running for cover ... shorts getting shafted ... all is well with the world again.
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April 24, 2018, 05:11:27 AM

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

#1 Ok, here is an argument for you then. When bcash forked, the market made a choice and declared bitcoin, bitcoin when the value stayed in bitcoin and did not transfer to bcash

#2 Here is another one, bcash changed the difficulty adjustment mechanism (block #478559) before bitcoin activated segwit (block #481824) and was therefore a fork of bitcoin at that instant. Then, even if you want to say segwit is not bitcoin, bitcoin forked from itself at block #481824 and then won the fork with itself and became bitcoin

Did I dumb it down enough for you?

I mean I hate doing this because it's getting really boring and I feel like everyone here should have just understood what I was saying by now but:

#1 So it's a democratic thing? Because I can tell you some of the value did go to bcash. So the fact that more went to core is what made it "the real bitcoin"? So if 51% had gone to bcash you would have reluctantly agreed that it was the real bitcoin? Even though ver's ideas are garbage? What if bcash slowly gains more and more and gets to over 50% in the future? Does it then become "the real bitcoin". If the value bounces back and forth back and forth between 49% and 51% relative to each other does the "real bitcoin" change every day as the value changes? Even if I don't go this route and accept your reason. Even if I allow that "the market decided" why does the market get to decide? You still have to say why. You can't just declare it. It just so happens that I agree with the markets decision however If ver's garbage vision for bitcoins future had won out in market capitalization after the fork I wouldn't have accepted it as "the real bitcoin" just because it had slightly more market cap. I would be here saying that core was the real bitcoin in my opinion even though it was slightly less capitalized.

#2 If that is a real reason, than you would have to say that you would call ver's version of bitcoin "the real bitcoin" if the roles had been reversed and core forked first instead of cash forking first. Are you really prepared to stand behind that?

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

On a lighter node. Screw lambos. I'm want one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfgbHvuYRU

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April 24, 2018, 05:12:53 AM

http://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2016/08/01/14/51/Special-Drawing-Right-SDR

Quote
The SDR is an international reserve asset, created by the IMF in 1969 to supplement its member countries’ official reserves. So far SDR 204.2 billion (equivalent to about US$291 billion) have been allocated to members, including SDR 182.6 billion allocated in 2009 in the wake of the global financial crisis. The value of the SDR is based on a basket of five currencies—the U.S. dollar, the euro, the Chinese renminbi, the Japanese yen, and the British pound sterling.

Bitcoin's natural competitor in the fiat world and bitcoin is getting to be in same ballpark in total float size.
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April 24, 2018, 05:14:52 AM

We only have 6 days left for my poll choice to be correct, can we step on it?

My poll choice is correct.  Can we slow down?
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April 24, 2018, 05:18:06 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Bcash is a fork. Bgold is a fork. These are forks of Bitcoin.
This is the least complicated thing ever. Roll Eyes

Let me be clear guys. I share your opinion. It is my opinion as well that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. All I am arguing is that that is my opinion and not a fact that is in some way objectively valid.

In what fundamental sense is bcash different from bitcoin core that makes it the fork and not bitcoin core the fork of it? Bitcoin core has changed the consensus algorithm too just like bcash. We used to not have segwit enabled and bcash used to not have massive blocks. One isn't "the fork" they are each forks of the other.

#1 Ok, here is an argument for you then. When bcash forked, the market made a choice and declared bitcoin, bitcoin when the value stayed in bitcoin and did not transfer to bcash

#2 Here is another one, bcash changed the difficulty adjustment mechanism (block #478559) before bitcoin activated segwit (block #481824) and was therefore a fork of bitcoin at that instant. Then, even if you want to say segwit is not bitcoin, bitcoin forked from itself at block #481824 and then won the fork with itself and became bitcoin

Did I dumb it down enough for you?

I mean I hate doing this because it's getting really boring and I feel like everyone here should have just understood what I was saying by now but:

#1 So it's a democratic thing? Because I can tell you some of the value did go to bcash. So the fact that more went to core is what made it "the real bitcoin"? So if 51% had gone to bcash you would have reluctantly agreed that it was the real bitcoin? Even though ver's ideas are garbage? What if bcash slowly gains more and more and gets to over 50% in the future? Does it then become "the real bitcoin". If the value bounces back and forth back and forth between 49% and 51% relative to each other does the "real bitcoin" change every day as the value changes? Even if I don't go this route and accept your reason. Even if I allow that "the market decided" why does the market get to decide? You still have to say why. You can't just declare it. It just so happens that I agree with the markets decision however If ver's garbage vision for bitcoins future had won out in market capitalization after the fork I wouldn't have accepted it as "the real bitcoin" just because it had slightly more market cap. I would be here saying that core was the real bitcoin in my opinion even though it was slightly less capitalized.

#2 If that is a real reason, than you would have to say that you would call ver's version of bitcoin "the real bitcoin" if the roles had been reversed and core forked first instead of cash forking first. Are you really prepared to stand behind that?

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

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April 24, 2018, 05:20:31 AM
Merited by Ibian (1), Last of the V8s (1)

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am not defending Ver and his trash coin. I am as adamantly opposed to BCash as anyone here. All I'm saying is that any argument that you make that one bitcoin is objectively "the real bitcoin" breaks down.

You sir, need to lay off the crack pipe

Well then make an argument for why your preferred fork is "the real bitcoin" that is not based in opinion or some sort of logical fallacy.

This is the test to determine the real Bitcoin, it's really very simple:

I run old original Bitcoin software that was released before the 2017 forks, both hard and soft.
I use that software to make a transaction.
The chain upon which that transaction is accepted is the real Bitcoin.


(A watertight definition would need to include version numbers and reference to non-contenious early hard forks)



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April 24, 2018, 05:21:20 AM

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

Jesus christ man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
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April 24, 2018, 05:25:05 AM

"the real bitcoin" will, unfortunately, always be a matter of opinion not fact.

Someone give this man a deMerit^

I am starting to see the wisdom in this simple statement... fuck.. even rosewater is making a lot of sense... omg.. omg..  Cheesy Cheesy

Yeah, on a person note. Maybe everybody that doesn't like me can bite me. How'd that be?


I think that a lot of peeps like you.  Peeps don't necessarily show our like (or appreciation) in direct ways, and in some regards, it does not matter too much how much peeps like you or not.  For example, when peeps name you as an example of something to do or not to do in regards to bitcoin, then that could be considered as a form of flattery, even if they do not get it right or even if they are trying to tease you for some aspect of your seeming on line persona...

We know that if someone lose their cool and become too emotional over internet communications, then that might reflect more about that person taking internet matters too seriously.. or if you start pumping other coins in this thread or calling for BIG blocks or some other disingenuous nonsense, then that might be another story in which you actually do become meaningfully disliked or lose credibility because of your combative off-topicness, rather than just being teased about something that you may have said in an earlier posts... and give me my pants back, you fuck!!!!!!....

and really, in the end, hopefully you participate in this thread for yourself and not based on what other people might think about you here, right?

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April 24, 2018, 05:25:15 AM


On a lighter node. Screw lambos. I'm want one of these.



not sure I'd want to be in a knockdown in that

I think I will stick with monohulls
rolling
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April 24, 2018, 05:25:54 AM

#1. Your scenario doesn't matter because that isn't what happened and it doesn't matter anymore, also, see #2
#2. If bcash had forked at the same block as bitcoin, you may have an argument as to which is which but it didn't so bcash is the fork. You can't change how it happened.

Jesus christ man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

You're beat just stop already. You can't rewrite history to suit yourself. I understand that there are many scenarios in which bcash "could" have been declared bitcoin but those things didn't happen. We are not discussing what may or may not happen in a fork situation, we are talking about what actually happened which is bcash forked from bitcoin. End of discussion.
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